Sox versus Celtics

Started by longgame, June 18, 2024, 02:24:17 PM

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longgame

First of all congrats to the Celtics for an impressive playoff performance and a dominant finals victory.  Another Boston championship.  I don't follow the Celtics closely but enough to know that for the past few years they've had several combinations of good players and coaches and came close.  But the ownership was relentless in finding the right group from the coach through the player roster.  The NBA is far less about developing players than MLB is, even with their G-League so they're somewhat forced into it and the smaller roster dynamics are different, but the Celtics weren't afraid to continue to work at it.

By contrast, the Sox have gone in the other direction.  Sports is funny, you can make a lot of money if you win or lose, and it costs more to win that it does to lose.  There's probably an optimum line there for a guy like Henry, but the point of a sports franchise is to win.  Right now that is not a priority with the Red Sox and hasn't been since 2018.  Instead of actually rebuilding, they've been shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.  If John Henry were running the Celtics, they'd have the same coach, one veteran player, one up and coming player and 3 rookies in their starting lineup.  And they'd get the expected result.

At least the Sox to date this year have been far more entertaining than I expected, but entertaining is okay on a nightly basis, but winning is what gets fans excited about the next game. 

Maybe some day they'll run the Red Sox like a winning organization again.  Like the Celtics.

MongoLikeSox

The difference in ownership is off the charts. It's as simple as that. They did everything they could do. They are in it for next season, too, but the window will be closing quickly after that from what I gather. They signed their superstars even knowing that the new, even more prohibitive CBA will clamp down hard on the bottom half of the roster.

In turn, the superstars down to the end of the bench are fully vested into the concept of a team. They full well appreciate their version of baseball's "dirt-dogs". It was as fun of a team to watch as there has been since the mid-80's Bird teams.


SeaBeachFred

Quote from: longgame on June 18, 2024, 02:24:17 PMFirst of all congrats to the Celtics for an impressive playoff performance and a dominant finals victory.  Another Boston championship.  I don't follow the Celtics closely but enough to know that for the past few years they've had several combinations of good players and coaches and came close.  But the ownership was relentless in finding the right group from the coach through the player roster.  The NBA is far less about developing players than MLB is, even with their G-League so they're somewhat forced into it and the smaller roster dynamics are different, but the Celtics weren't afraid to continue to work at it.

By contrast, the Sox have gone in the other direction.  Sports is funny, you can make a lot of money if you win or lose, and it costs more to win that it does to lose.  There's probably an optimum line there for a guy like Henry, but the point of a sports franchise is to win.  Right now that is not a priority with the Red Sox and hasn't been since 2018.  Instead of actually rebuilding, they've been shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.  If John Henry were running the Celtics, they'd have the same coach, one veteran player, one up and coming player and 3 rookies in their starting lineup.  And they'd get the expected result.

At least the Sox to date this year have been far more entertaining than I expected, but entertaining is okay on a nightly basis, but winning is what gets fans excited about the next game. 

Maybe some day they'll run the Red Sox like a winning organization again.  Like the Celtics.

In total agreement Ted with that last three word sentence of yours, but as long as the fans keep pouring into Fenway to see what has been nothing less than an inferior p roduct since 2019 Henry will not have to lift a finger to get our team up to par.  Only massive decreases in attendance figures and income from fans buying up Red Sox gear might give Henry the idea that, WOW, maybe we got start winning again.  We've done OK so far with a bunch of retreads and questionable "prospects" in our lineup and on the hill, but the last two season we saw that collapse big time when the dog days of summer hit.  I hope last night wasn't the start of another futile Red Sox train wreck.

MongoLikeSox

I'm happy with the progress this year. Not all of it. 2B stinks. Still, we're getting this out of the group that is getting their chance so that we didn't have to rush the big boys out. Mayer, Yorke, Teel and Anthony are all waiting in the wing. We've even got a good second tier in Jordan, Meidroth and now Sogard. We MIGHT already have 3 better options for 2B right now in Worcester. At least Yorke and Meidroth. I don't know how good Sogard is on defense, but he seemingly plays everywhere.

That doesn't even factor in the newest potential big name - Kristian Campbell is raking 10 ways to Sunday. When he falls out of his tree and hits 100 points less than his first three weeks in Portland, he'd still be raking more than the others. He's on a 7-8 week heater. His scouting report said he had all the tools, but has yet to show them in game. That report is about to change. He turns 22 tomorrow and has hit 382 with 11 HR's and a 1.157 in A+ and AA. We just don't know where he is going to settle in. History has taught us that it will not last forever.

SeaBeachFred

Mongo, kudos for mentioning Jordan and Meidroth along side Mayer, Yorke, Teel and Anthony.  Those half-dozen players could be the possible launching of what some of those front office hacks keep calling our next great Red Sox team.  Problem is we have a couple of young players already in the lineup and are some of Cora's favorites and my fear is that some of these prospects will get left out in the cold with Cora still around.  He is much better with a veteran team, not a young core of players who must be fitted into that lineup of ours.  Yes, this is my opinion only at the present time but I have seen Alex in action the past few years and nurturing a young corps is not his strength.  And where is the pitching prospects?  From what I've seen Bello has been regressing at an alarming rate, Mata is hurt again and we are short a couple of starting pitchers carrying on for us this season.  I do like our young corps coming up the ranks, but get Cedanne off of shortstop because he has a very loose glove out there.  I do like the group we have coming up and hopefully  they will mesh it and become what we hope they will be the next great group of Red Sox.

MongoLikeSox

I forgot about the 3B turned OF'er, Mathew Lugo. If he gets AAA solved and goes on another heater, look out Refsnyder or O'Neil. Big month coming up for Lugo.

That's 9 serious prospects in the upper levels.

Fred, I am nervous about the same things with Cora, though he seems to be doing better this year. I'm not so much worried about Mayer getting his chance, though I'd like to see him promoted to AAA sooner than later. He is still 21 years old, though. I also think Teel will get his fast-track ticket punched sometime next season, with a AAA promotion the next time we have a catcher injury. Yorke is being groomed for some LF action, too, for more PT once he gets here. He's few weeks away from some serious consideration at 2B and is already better defensively than some current options at 2B including Grissom. A sleeper is Sogard. I could see him in Boston the day after trade deadline. A good or even great utility guy in the making if he continues to rake. He's a goner if we don't promote him to at least the 40-man this off-season.

Your point also brings up a whole slew of options coming into focus in a month, assuming Breslow doesn't screw the pooch like Bloom did come trade deadline. Could mean some instant PT for a prospect or two.

longgame

I've read a couple of articles talking about how the Sox really have to do a deal if they want to add something this year simply because they don't want to put the really young guys on the 40 man prematurely and lose flexibility overall.  Clearly they continue to look ahead but hopefully the team will continue to put pressure on the front office to do something to improve the team.

It's almost like watching Major League, but not funny. 

MongoLikeSox

Second Base has emerged as a position of strength for the Red Sox in their upper levels. Probably most ready is Meidroth who is having a superb season. Right behind him is Nick Yorke, who is still on a .342BA heater since his AAA promotion 4 weeks ago. Just behind Yorke down in AA is newcomer Kristian Campbell who just put up a 4-week .421BA. Let that last one soak in a little bit. I mean, nobody hits .421 for a month after a promotion to the upper levels. How do you even deal with that as an organization?

Anyhow, this post is about Chase Meidroth. There was a fluff article on the Woosox site on Friday talking Chaise Meodroth and where his season long numbers stand in all of baseball - Minors and Majors. Since the article, he pulled off a 10 for 19 weekend plus a walk bringing his average up from .288 to .307. 

He was 4th in all of baseball with a .444 OBP (now .453) and was tied with Aaron Judge for 2nd place in Walks at 60, now in 3rd place. He's got a 1.82 Walk to Strike-out ratio, good for second. For reference, they pointed out that Mookie Betts was leading MLB with a 1.38 BB/K ratio. His actual K-rate is a meager 10.7%. FWIW, the Boston Red Sox are almost 25%. 

This is an old timey type hitter. Contact first, work a bunch of pitches, etc. He's only got 10HR power ATM and probably has similar SB potential. The power should go up as he gets stronger, but I hope he does wreck his swing getting there. On defense, he doesn't have a canon for an arm, but does play a good defense. I've seen him make great and solid plays at 3B, SS and 2B.

Here's the article. Woosox Site

So imagine a 2B(for now) that's actually able to get to a baseball hit more than 5 feet away from him AND somebody taking a high number of pitches hitting behind Duran in addition to actually getting on base. Once Yorke is ready(soon?), Meidroth can easily slot into the RHB infield utility role.

Sea Dog 23

On Fansided a lot of Boston is aghast.  Celtics owner is selling the team.  Of course an obvious buyer is John Henry.  What could go possibly wrong?

MongoLikeSox

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 02, 2024, 09:28:37 AMOn Fansided a lot of Boston is aghast.  Celtics owner is selling the team.  Of course an obvious buyer is John Henry.  What could go possibly wrong?
I don't even want to think about this. ugh!!! And I read this the day after the Hurricanes' disasterous start to their off-season. I shudder to think how badly they're screwing up whatever's happening on the Jarvis & Necas situations.

Back to baseball. Nick Yorke got a few days off at the end of a 4-week heater and went 3-5 with 2 HR's and a BB last night. Sogard and Lugo resuming their comeback from their slumps. We've got some players, including Meidroth, not named Valdez that, perhaps, could make a difference now.