Red Sox defense

[elktonnick]

Frank Malzone, in 1957, led the American League in games played at third base (153), putouts at third base (151), assists at third base (370), double plays at third base (31), fielding percentage at third base (.954) and errors committed at third base (25) - the first time any player at any position in the junior circuit led in all those fielding stats in the same season.

Did you know that when Frank Malzone won his first Gold Glove Award at third base (1957), it was given to only one player who at the time was considered the best defensive player at their respective position in Major League Baseball (from either league)?

Did you know Frank Malzone was the first Major League player to win two Gold Gloves at third, the first to win a pair in consecutive seasons, the first to win three Gold Gloves at third, and the first to win three in consecutive seasons?  Baseball Almanac.

Malzone was 27 years old at the time.  I bring this up to remember to keep his number of errors in perspective when evaluating Devers errors at third base.  Devers has currently 17.  Like Malzone one of the reasons he has so many errors is because like Malzone he tries to make difficult plays.  I still believe that Devers has the ability to become the best defensive third baseman in baseball.

[MongoLikeSox]

I agree for the most part, and it is an interesting perspective of errors, the old fashioned eye test and Gold Gloves. I think Malzone gave way to Brooks Robinson, who of course won tons of GG's for Baltimore.

I don't think Raffy will ever be the best 3B. Not because of Raffy, but because of Matt Chapman Nolan Arenado. Raffy can make some plays that will remind us of them at times, but these guys are true defensive weapons.

Some minor things to add about Raffy's defense. I think he is exceptional at running down popups. He's still weak charging the ball. When Raffy's on, his reaction time is impressive and can compete with Arenado on any given day. The other things I see sometimes is standing around too much, which I think makes him have to rush tag-plays should the play make it to him. Standing erect waiting on throws makes him a little vulnerable to missing imperfect, but catchable throws.

If I was a small market team needing a 3B and RH power while willing to give up se K's, I'd try to get Bobby Dalbec. His arm can rival Chapman, and consistent time there would allow him to regain his natural skills. He was the Red Sox Minor League Defensive Player of the Year in 2018.

To add more merit to your arguments, Raffy won that award two years earlier in 2016.

[elktonnick]

I agree for the most part, and it is an interesting perspective of errors, the old fashioned eye test and Gold Gloves. I think Malzone gave way to Brooks Robinson, who of course won tons of GG's for Baltimore.

I don't think Raffy will ever be the best 3B. Not because of Raffy, but because of Matt Chapman Nolan Arenado. Raffy can make some plays that will remind us of them at times, but these guys are true defensive weapons.

Some minor things to add about Raffy's defense. I think he is exceptional at running down popups. He's still weak charging the ball. When Raffy's on, his reaction time is impressive and can compete with Arenado on any given day. The other things I see sometimes is standing around too much, which I think makes him have to rush tag-plays should the play make it to him. Standing erect waiting on throws makes him a little vulnerable to missing imperfect, but catchable throws.

If I was a small market team needing a 3B and RH power while willing to give up se K's, I'd try to get Bobby Dalbec. His arm can rival Chapman, and consistent time there would allow him to regain his natural skills. He was the Red Sox Minor League Defensive Player of the Year in 2018.

To add more merit to your arguments, Raffy won that award two years earlier in 2016.

Thank you for your perspective. I posted the above for two reasons.  The first is to debunk the notion that errors and the so called new fangled defensive metrics are the best ways to measure the effectiveness of a players defense.  Games played , number of chances , total putouts and number of assists though not as sophisticated as sabermetrics are probably more meaningful.  Second, to debunk the notion that the Sox should move Devers to 1st.  Devers does not have the body type to be an effective 1st baseman.  I prefer tall lanky 1st basemen.

[MongoLikeSox]

Thank you for your perspective. I posted the above for two reasons.  The first is to debunk the notion that errors and the so called new fangled defensive metrics are the best ways to measure the effectiveness of a players defense.  Games played , number of chances , total putouts and number of assists though not as sophisticated as sabermetrics are probably more meaningful.  Second, to debunk the notion that the Sox should move Devers to 1st.  Devers does not have the body type to be an effective 1st baseman.  I prefer tall lanky 1st basemen.

My biggest problem with the current Red Sox regime is not even how repeatedly indifferent they are to the defensive eye test. It's how they think good defense does not matter. That indifference is not just defense, though. That indifference shows up in all phases of the game and happens in various forms every single year. What's worse is that they are almost always predictable every single year.

Well, back to defense. We certainly have tall at 1B now with Casas. He's improved defensively as well as offense. Even making some moderately cat-like or rangy plays from time to time. Throwing has been better, too.

The timing could not have been better with your topic as we've seen Devers make at least 4 difficult pop-up plays in the past week. He even made a good play charging the ball recently. He's got some things to work on and I hope he continues to do so. We've had more numerous problems on defense than Raffy unleashing some wild throws.

[longgame]

I've said it before regarding Devers, he misses Bogey and hasn't had a regular player to his left all season.  He'll never be great, but it seems a lot of his problems are decision making related.  Maybe the new management team next year (one can hope) will figure it out.

[elktonnick]

I've said it before regarding Devers, he misses Bogey and hasn't had a regular player to his left all season.  He'll never be great, but it seems a lot of his problems are decision making related.  Maybe the new management team next year (one can hope) will figure it out.

That has been my major point as well
  It has been obvious that Bloom is absolutely oblivious.to the human element
  He has no concept of team
  He and Henry view players as components.  Relationships mean nothing to them.

[MongoLikeSox]

........Relationships mean nothing to them.

Unless you're a vet willing to drop a 40% discount to stay put. Then it's full front hugs and public attaboys.

[MongoLikeSox]

So, moving on to Left Field. Just how bad is Yoshida out there?

I see horrible tracking balls behind him, horrible near any wall and a  mediocre arm. His side to side looks OK as does coming in on balls. He does look odd and out of sorts at everything he does out there, but I don't think he's as bad as Hanley or Franchy. The broken light-cover play kind of illustrates the bad. Then again, it's not like Refsnyder had a picnic out there last night with that  wall. 

I know Speier was talking about some of Yoshida's defensive stats last night. I don't think it was nice, but I was eating a salad and missed a good bit of it before I realized what he was talking about. Then again, he lost me with the "you should be all in on this" diatribe regarding Panda possibly coming back for the last month of whatever season that was. I didn't bother to turn up the TV.  :-[

In the end, I'm still not sure of what to make of that signing.

[longgame]

I keep trying to tell myself Yoshida's defense is average, not poor. Hopefully he figures out the monster. I like him at the plate though. I also imagine he's kind of worn out now with the longer season and all the travel.

[elktonnick]

I keep trying to tell myself Yoshida's defense is average, not poor. Hopefully he figures out the monster. I like him at the plate though. I also imagine he's kind of worn out now with the longer season and all the travel.

I do not think Yoshida is anything but a one tool.player.

[longgame]

I keep trying to tell myself Yoshida's defense is average, not poor. Hopefully he figures out the monster. I like him at the plate though. I also imagine he's kind of worn out now with the longer season and all the travel.

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I do not think Yoshida is anything but a one tool.player.

I think Bloom named his kids One-dimension.

[SeaBeachFred]

I've said it before regarding Devers, he misses Bogey and hasn't had a regular player to his left all season.  He'll never be great, but it seems a lot of his problems are decision making related.  Maybe the new management team next year (one can hope) will figure it out.

That has been my major point as well
  It has been obvious that Bloom is absolutely oblivious.to the human element
  He has no concept of team
  He and Henry view players as components.  Relationships mean nothing to them.

Seems you could have been talking about owner John Henry who also has piss poor people skills, being the only member of the RedSox front office who didn't wire, call or write congratulations to former BO Director Dan Dombrowski for his getting his Phillies into the World Series.  On that Bloom and Henry are two peas in a pod, but you can't fire the owner too so this is pretty much the best we can get until Cora is also shown the door.