There have been a few standard issue bargain basement moves for a few teams this month, but nothing related to a trade deadline move until the Braves yesterday. They made a deal with the Rockies for a relief pitcher named Pierce Johnson making basically Joely type money. He had a couple good years for the Padres before an injury last season. This year has been up and down. From what I read, he got the closer's gig when Daniel Bard went down, but did not do well at it. His ERA since being moved back to a normal BP role is 3.60 in the past two months.
For that, that braves gave up their #10 and #26 prospects. It goes downhill from there. Again, from what I've read, The #10 guy Victor Vodnick, will probably see the big leagues in a year or two if he can reign in the pitch command. He's now the Rockies #20 prospect. The other guy is a started in AAA who hasn't thrown a sub-4.00 ERA since A- in part of 2021. A combined 5.86 ERA that didn't even stick in the Rockies top-30 list.
So there's the market. Doesn't really look like that big of a price for what could be an extra decent BP guy. A legit BP prospect with command issues and a starter who's a long shot.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall of some of the meetings in the front offices of MLB. I'd think in this market you have to make a move only if you think you can win it all. A team like the Sox is not in that position, they're not made up well enough and aren't a piece or two from a championship team. Does it make sense to add a piece that helps you make the Wild card even if you don't stand a chance? The Sox don't have the pitching unless they had Sale fully healthy in addition to a reliable Paxton and Bello. Why make a move at this point unless it's to strengthen the team for the future? And if Bloom's plan is to build the farm system, then why trade prospects just so they can lose later this year?
How many teams are truly in a place where one more player can make a difference? Maybe Baltimore and TB? Why would anyone in the Central try to do more? Maybe Texas and Houston also in the AL.
Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:27:14 AM
I'd love to be a fly on the wall of some of the meetings in the front offices of MLB. I'd think in this market you have to make a move only if you think you can win it all. A team like the Sox is not in that position, they're not made up well enough and aren't a piece or two from a championship team. Does it make sense to add a piece that helps you make the Wild card even if you don't stand a chance? The Sox don't have the pitching unless they had Sale fully healthy in addition to a reliable Paxton and Bello. Why make a move at this point unless it's to strengthen the team for the future? And if Bloom's plan is to build the farm system, then why trade prospects just so they can lose later this year?
How many teams are truly in a place where one more player can make a difference? Maybe Baltimore and TB? Why would anyone in the Central try to do more? Maybe Texas and Houston also in the AL.
Texas just lost Seeger for a couple of weeks and their All-Star RF is out for a few days. Could be a rough week if the backups don't pull through. It's amazing what a potential bad week this time of year can do to a contending team.
I read that Bloom has been on the radio yammering on about looking for a good situation for a starting pitcher. I think every team is in the same boat. Bloom and Kennedy might be in a desperate mode trying to score a big haul.
So, some sad, unintentional humor. I won't name names and the site because I accidentally stepped on the toes of a forum member 6-7 years ago. That out of the way, one report I read this morning called the Red Sox a heavy RH batting team and we are hunting a lefty bat. The reasoning behind that assumption was revealed elsewhere in the article. It was made because of our little AAAA log jam in the SS/2B are all RH batters. So armed with that, we are now trying to unload the RH batting Duvall for a LH hitting OF'er to help balance our RH heavy team. Good times!!!
So the trade last night that the ESPN guys were offering bewilderment about has some clarity. The Guardians traded their starting SS Ahmed Rosario to the Dodgers for the currently injured Noah Syndergaard. Their confusion centered around treadint thei restarting SS. This is Rosario's walk season. The Indians have a guy in AAA near ready and two on their roster that they want to take extended looks at for the rest of this season. That much I get, though they're only 2 games back of the twins. Maybe they figure one of the guys might be better than Rosario? It's the return I don't get. It'd be like trading for Korey Kluber. The Guardians get nothing of going forward value for a starting SS. Seems odd.
From Longgame on a different thread.
"Sox pitched up a reliever from the Giants late last night and sent Ort to the 60 day DL. "
We get Mauricio Llovera from the Giants, whom they had just DFA'd to make room for a pitcher coming back from injury. He'd been up and down over the past 3 years. 17 games with a 4.41 ERA last year. This year he allowed 1 run allowed in 5 games. Averages just about a strike out per inning. Had decent, though not great AAA going sub 4.00 ERA. Considering we usually dumpster dive for guys kicking up twice or three times that in ERA, this one might not be so bad. He is out of options. We add him, transfer Ort to the 60-day IL, demote whoever it is to Worcester and give him a look for a few games.
The guy we gave up, Marques Johnson, is a 23 year old in Salem with a high ERA, but had turned it around the past couple of months. ERA 3.66 since the end of May. If Llovera works out, this will be a good trade. If not, another dumpster dive.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 27, 2023, 07:36:40 AM
From Longgame on a different thread.
"Sox pitched up a reliever from the Giants late last night and sent Ort to the 60 day DL. "
We get Mauricio Llovera from the Giants, whom they had just DFA'd to make room for a pitcher coming back from injury. He'd been up and down over the past 3 years. 17 games with a 4.41 ERA last year. This year he allowed 1 run allowed in 5 games. Averages just about a strike out per inning. Had decent, though not great AAA going sub 4.00 ERA. Considering we usually dumpster dive for guys kicking up twice or three times that in ERA, this one might not be so bad. He is out of options. We add him, transfer Ort to the 60-day IL, demote whoever it is to Worcester and give him a look for a few games.
The guy we gave up, Marques Johnson, is a 23 year old in Salem with a high ERA, but had turned it around the past couple of months. ERA 3.66 since the end of May. If Llovera works out, this will be a good trade. If not, another dumpster dive.
Turns out Marques Johnson is a California kid, born and bred. Maybe the Giants' thinking is, a change of scenery for a West Coast boy.
Chicago's Giolito and a reliever Lopez, both rentals, to the Angels for the Angels #2 and #3 prospects. Ouch!!! That is one helluva gamble to try and reach a wildcard spot and retain a glimmer of hope to re-signing Ohtani.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 27, 2023, 11:07:12 AM
Chicago's Giolito and a reliever Lopez, both rentals, to the Angels for the Angels #2 and #3 prospects. Ouch!!! That is one helluva gamble to try and reach a wildcard spot and retain a glimmer of hope to re-signing Ohtani.
Teams are inquiring about their ace Cease. He is under control through 2024. However the paleSox are asking for two top prospects, plus mid-rotation MLB pitchers in return.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 27, 2023, 11:39:56 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 27, 2023, 11:07:12 AM
Chicago's Giolito and a reliever Lopez, both rentals, to the Angels for the Angels #2 and #3 prospects. Ouch!!! That is one helluva gamble to try and reach a wildcard spot and retain a glimmer of hope to re-signing Ohtani.
Teams are inquiring about their ace Cease. He is under control through 2024. However the paleSox are asking for two top prospects, plus mid-rotation MLB pitchers in return.
Holy Smokes!
That's quite a return for the Chi Sox. If they got it once, why not try again?
As for the Angels, they've been a win now window for a while. This may be as close as they come based on past history. Trout's production and Ohtahni's contract won't last forever.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 27, 2023, 11:07:12 AM
Chicago's Giolito and a reliever Lopez, both rentals, to the Angels for the Angels #2 and #3 prospects. Ouch!!! That is one helluva gamble to try and reach a wildcard spot and retain a glimmer of hope to re-signing Ohtani.
No gamble Mongo; just an act of suicide. No way does Ohtani sign with the Angels in the off season. Even Angels fans out here in broiling So. Cal are aware of that. But gamble they did and I hope it does work out for them since my wife Linda has been an Angels fan for decades.
Reports that Sox and Marlins are entertaining Cards INF Paul DeJong. I guess MGT is really about fixing SS, in case Story is going to need a lot of rest between games through August
He has two option years left on his contract,( total contract I think) for $9mil, plus $12mil club option.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 27, 2023, 02:50:52 PM
Reports that Sox and Marlins are entertaining Cards INF Paul DeJong. I guess MGT is really about fixing SS, in case Story is going to need a lot of rest between games through August
He has two option years left on his contract,( total contract I think) for $9mil, plus $12mil club option.
You'd think Chang would fill that role. He'd be the next guy out if they brought on an IF, or do they have a trade in mind for Chang and/or Arroyo?
Quote from: longgame on July 28, 2023, 07:26:06 AM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 27, 2023, 02:50:52 PM
Reports that Sox and Marlins are entertaining Cards INF Paul DeJong. I guess MGT is really about fixing SS, in case Story is going to need a lot of rest between games through August
He has two option years left on his contract,( total contract I think) for $9mil, plus $12mil club option.
You'd think Chang would fill that role. He'd be the next guy out if they brought on an IF, or do they have a trade in mind for Chang and/or Arroyo?
It could be Bloom's magic (HAHA) to craft a deal for a pitcher or an INF in exchange for the new Frisco reliever and one of our infield prospects that is blocked by Mayer/Yorke or Chang/Arroyo. Bloom does keep his moves very tight lipped.
An article in the Athletic this week says, they have about $6.5 million before they hit the $233 million tax threshold unless they trade from the current roster. They think there is a starting pitcher coming in a trade, and that Verdugo is the more likely trade piece considering the value of Duvall's RH bat and his RF abilities, and that Verdugo has probably reached his ceiling as a hitter and now going downhill.
Interesting. I like Verdugo, but he looked unwell the other night after having a few nights off. I'm wondering if he's dealing with something health related? I wouldn't want to give up on him though because his RF defense has looked pretty good. Whoever we have in CF, until Rafaela comes here, is going to need help, and Yoshida is an average fielder at best. Duvall is going to always have injury question marks, but he is objectively a better, or at least different, bat. I just like the energy Verdugo brings. We'll see.
As for the young prospects, I hate to let some of those top guys go considering I can't see them getting a #2 starter level kind of guy, but maybe they just need depth with the experience they've had to date with injuries and those top level guys don't need to be part of it.
Verdugo is an emotional guy. Not a bad thing. If he's hearing trade scuttlebutt, he's feeling it and wearing it on his sleeves. IMO.
New deal. Marlins get the Met's David Robertson for a couple of FCL kids (ranked 18 and 22 in the Marlins' system). Smart on the Mets taking very young players instead of ones who will need Rule-5 protection. Trading lower-level talent can blow up for either team.
Brewers got Carlos Santana from the Pirates to replace Rowdy Telez as he's in the IL. I forgot the return, but it seemed reasonable IIRC.
And, Mongo it could go the other way. News from Philly overnight,
The Philadelphia Inquirer has been linking Duvall to the Phillies the last few days, and also mentioned Paxton today.
@ByRobertMurray
confirmed Duvall’s link, "There’s quite a bit of interest in Duvall, he’s got a good chance of being traded, the Phillies are far from alone."
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 28, 2023, 09:40:35 AM
And, Mongo it could go the other way. News from Philly overnight,
The Philadelphia Inquirer has been linking Duvall to the Phillies the last few days, and also mentioned Paxton today.
@ByRobertMurray
confirmed Duvall’s link, "There’s quite a bit of interest in Duvall, he’s got a good chance of being traded, the Phillies are far from alone."
Trading Duvall over Verdugo makes sense. Gets Refsnyder a few more reps that can alternate with the three LHB starters. A few weeks down the road if Rafaela is still doing well, he could get some spot starts all over the place as he adjusts to MLB. That's thinking too far ahead, though. :)
Rumblings that Sox and Cardinals are talking about one of ther L/H hitting MILs. Gorman, Donovan, or Tommy Edman. Donovan just got a bad injury, so likely Edman is the focal point if credible. Edman isn't much of a hitter, but good defender and plays infield and outfield. Would Yorke be in this proposed trade?
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 28, 2023, 01:18:40 PM
Rumblings that Sox and Cardinals are talking about one of ther L/H hitting MILs. Gorman, Donovan, or Tommy Edman. Donovan just got a bad injury, so likely Edman is the focal point if credible. Edman isn't much of a hitter, but good defender. Would Yorke be in this proposed trade?
On a side note, Yorke's recent absence has been due to a lower body soreness after a play at 2B last week. Sliding, IIRC, or maybe just stepped wrong?
Isn't Edman a really sweet defending multi-position guy? Switch Hitter. An upgrade over Reyes and Chang if it's who I'm thinking of. If it's Gorman, it would be a haul going to the Cardinals. Yes, including Yorke and 1-2 others in the top-30. I do not like his K rate, though. mega-yikes.
Some more from the West Coast hopefuls,
Dodgers are sending Double-A right-hander Nick Nastrini and reliever Jordan Leasure to the White Sox to complete the deal for Lance Lynn and Joe Kelly.
ChiSox also traded relief pitcher Kendall Graveman to Houston.
That's four of their pitchers gone including Giolito.
The unrated reliever, Leasure, is tossing a 3.09 ERA with 58Ks in 35 innings.
If our bloomidiot trades Yorke for Hill, he should get his fingernails pulled out by Maz.
Scherzer was miffed when Mets traded their relief pitcher Robertson. He asked for an interview with MGT, then got himself traded to Rangers. Really. Trade is subject to Scherzer's approval.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 29, 2023, 05:14:17 PM
Scherzer was miffed when Mets traded their relief pitcher Robertson. He asked for an interview with MGT, then got himself traded to Rangers. Really. Trade is subject to Scherzer's approval.
It's supposedly been approved. Met's get the Ranger's #3 guy, Luisangel Acuna, younger brother of the Braves star. Ranked MLB #44. 21 year old SS. In 84 games so far this season, he's got 7 HR's, 315BA and 42 SB's with only 5 CS. My initial reaction is good the the Mets.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 30, 2023, 07:42:26 AM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 29, 2023, 05:14:17 PM
Scherzer was miffed when Mets traded their relief pitcher Robertson. He asked for an interview with MGT, then got himself traded to Rangers. Really. Trade is subject to Scherzer's approval.
It's supposedly been approved. Met's get the Ranger's #3 guy, Luisangel Acuna, younger brother of the Braves star. Ranked MLB #44. 21 year old SS. In 84 games so far this season, he's got 7 HR's, 315BA and 42 SB's with only 5 CS. My initial reaction is good the the Mets.
Some more contractural details. Scherzer is taking his "opt-in" and staying with Rangers in '23 and '24. His contract is 2/$$85mil. It looks like Mets are paying half of his contract through next year, but I could be reading that wrong.
There is growing belief that Bloom will not improve the team, by a trade. BUT, his move will be adding two players at the deadline, sort of. The two new players being Story and Sale. It's Bloom magic , and he did not lose a single prospect of value.
That's a short term remedy, and fools gold. Come December Bloom has exposed about 70 of his prospects to the Rule 5 draft without getting any returns. Still two days for this to play out.
I'll play Devil's Advocate for a moment.
Let's say he does not do anything else to improve the team.
Offense - I'm fine.
1 - Duran - CF
2 - Yoshida - LF
3 - Turner - DH
4 - Devers - 3B
5 - Story - SS
6 - Verdugo - RF
7 - Casas - 1B
8 - Arroyo - 2B
9 - Wong/McGuire - C
Duvall - Primary sub in, damned near a Starter plays DH, LF, RD, CF 5 days a week -
Refsnyder and Reyes
BullPen - Solid as we've had in a long time.
Starters
SP 1 - Paxton (A whole other topic - Not trading him for prospects is the same result as trading prospects for a good starter)
SP 2 - Bello
SP 3 - Crawford
SP 4 - ???
SP 5 - ???
As you read what my thoughts are below, keep in mind that we have a soft-ish mid-August. 7th through 17th feature the Royals, Tigers and Nationals. Surviving a 3 starter staff without losing ground is possible, as is also surviving the next returnee's first outing. It's a knife-fight after that.
So, then, the final two starters spots. The notoriously short term Chris Sale and the best of what will Houck and Whitlock turn into. We won't see any of them for at least two weeks, if not longer. We can survive with only one of the 3 coming back and performing at a #4 man level, though 2 would be great. Meanwhile, I believe we will need to bite the bullet on either Walter or Murphy NOW and get them back up to 5 inning starter spots in Worcester for an additional chance of getting another 4th or 5th starter from within.
Duvall, fwiw, on deadline day might be enough for a legit #4 starter. That would move Refsnyder back into the playing rotation a little more. Verdugo might also be the one to be traded, perhaps landing us a little bit better return.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 30, 2023, 08:18:52 AM
There is growing belief that Bloom will not improve the team, by a trade. BUT, his move will be adding two players at the deadline, sort of. The two new players being Story and Sale. It's Bloom magic , and he did not lose a single prospect of value.
That's a short term remedy, and fools gold. Come December Bloom has exposed about 70 of his prospects to the Rule 5 draft without getting any returns. Still two days for this to play out.
My worry Sea Dog is who Bloom decides to trade. Needles to say almost of all of his trades have been disasters and our best prospects are those that were drafted and not from his trades. Besides if we lose today and drop the series in San Francisco we should simply throw in the towel because false optimisim aside our team will have set themselves up for a series loss in Seattle, if not a sweep and then most likely a headlong disastrous slump that might cement us in last place right back where we started. If OTOH we win the SF series and take the first game in Seattle we would have three of four on this West Coast swing and maybe proved this team has the guts, courage, and fight to make a go of it. These next two games before August 1 are absolutely decisive to our 2023 future. WE MUST WIN TODAY AND MONDAY TO STAY RELEVANT.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 30, 2023, 08:18:52 AM
There is growing belief that Bloom will not improve the team, by a trade. BUT, his move will be adding two players at the deadline, sort of. The two new players being Story and Sale. It's Bloom magic , and he did not lose a single prospect of value.
That's a short term remedy, and fools gold. Come December Bloom has exposed about 70 of his prospects to the Rule 5 draft without getting any returns. Still two days for this to play out.
To your point - today's trades so far have featured a good MLB pitcher for a pair of AA type players, one or both ranked depending on trade.
I see Devers has been on the air, imploring MGT to help the team out. This is beginning to lookmore like 2022 where Bloom left a sour taste in the clubhouse at the deadline. 36 hours left to get smart (not the tv show).
Chad Jennings says Bloom is now shopping Paxton for a young pitcher, with 2024 control. How that helps the '23 playoffs is a complete mystery to me. Paxton did decline his 2024 option to return.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 31, 2023, 06:21:15 AM
I see Devers has been on the air, imploring MGT to help the team out. This is beginning to lookmore like 2022 where Bloom left a sour taste in the clubhouse at the deadline. 36 hours left to get smart (not the tv show).
Chad Jennings says Bloom is now shopping Paxton for a young pitcher, with 2024 control. How that helps the '23 playoffs is a complete mystery to me. Paxton did decline his 2024 option to return.
If Devers wants a better team, he needs to set examples and double up on his fielding practice.
I don't buy that approach on Paxton in this situation.
mlbtraderumors is out with a story that Bloom was talking to an American League team over the weekend, and Bloom brought up the availability of Verdugo to said team. Dugi, as you know was hitting .307 not long ago, but in July his numbers show a paltry .143. The Sox seem to be totally confused as to what Verdugo's market value is moving to his 2024 contract year. Has he hit his ceiling? As an offensive threat, he may have.
The writer dropped the name of Raphaela as a possible intro to Fenway as some of the Duvall/Verdugo talks move along.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 29, 2023, 05:14:17 PM
Scherzer was miffed when Mets traded their relief pitcher Robertson. He asked for an interview with MGT, then got himself traded to Rangers. Really. Trade is subject to Scherzer's approval.
Now Verlander transparently wants the same, complaining in hopes he'll get traded. These guys may make a lot of money, but they don't get that they're commodities.
If anything the past month where they played well until they didn't confused things enough. I've said that I don't think this team has the juice to go all the way so why try too hard to improve it. Plus I have no confidence in Bloom to effectively make improvements.
Devers has a lot to carry on his own shoulders, but apparently doesn't realize it. Between his all-or-nothing approach to the plate or his fielding which seems to have regressed this year, he's not the guy he thinks he is.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 31, 2023, 08:31:36 AM
mlbtraderumors is out with a story that Bloom was talking to an American League team over the weekend, and Bloom brought up the availability of Verdugo to said team. Dugi, as you know was hitting .307 not long ago, but in July his numbers show a paltry .143. The Sox seem to be totally confused as to what Verdugo's market value is moving to his 2024 contract year. Has he hit his ceiling? As an offensive threat, he may have.
The writer dropped the name of Raphaela as a possible intro to Fenway as some of the Duvall/Verdugo talks move along.
Verdugo can and will slump. I'm not convinced he's as nonchalant about this trade deadline thing as he claims to be. I suspect it's eating him up.
What I CAN believe is that Verdugo claims to have not been approached about any sort of longer term extensions. In that light, yes, I'd be sh*tting bricks if I was him, too.
Rafaela to Fenway soon? He's certainly hot. He's also a stud defensively. Duran can cover RF, but does not have the arm for it.
The Angels got Randall Grichuk, CJ Cron and $2M from the Rockies for their #28 and #8 prospects, now listed as the Rockies' #20 & #21 prospects. One is in his first year of pro ball and the other will need protection after next season.
So that's the price for two decent, above average rental bats. Two controllable, valued but not blue chip pitching prospects.
Note that the Angels also got two White Sox pitchers a few days ago giving up a couple more similar prospects.
The White Sox have made catcher Grandal available. I think he's hitting .270. Would be a good backup for Sox since we're dealing with Alfaro and McGuire's injury. But the Yanks are trying to make the trade, as their guy Trevino went down with a hand injury.
Tampa traded with the Guardians for pitcher Civale in exchange for Rays #4 prospect. For a midling pitcher, that would be like Boston trading Yorke or Anthony to get that done. It looks more and more that Bloom has asked for a steep price on Paxton, as he should, to get a trade worked out.
I think we will stick with what we got heading into August. Probably not a big threat to get beyond one wild card game on the road.
The Rays gave up an MLB #37 for Civale, who they will have under control for 2 additional seasons. Damn!
Diamondbacks got the Seattle closer for a pair of top #30 prospects and a MLB OF'er, platoon kind of guy IIRC.
The Brewers got Cahne from the Mets for a Brewers #30 prospect starting pitcher who just got promoted to AAA, but is scuffling after 3 games. The Mets are paying for all but the league minimum portion of the salary. Not sure about the buyout.
I think the Scherzer trade involved getting a MLB #44 prospect, but they had to pay $34M of the remaining contract. Think about that kind of pressure. "we paid $34M for you kid. Do good!!!"
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 31, 2023, 08:01:14 AM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 31, 2023, 06:21:15 AM
I see Devers has been on the air, imploring MGT to help the team out. This is beginning to lookmore like 2022 where Bloom left a sour taste in the clubhouse at the deadline. 36 hours left to get smart (not the tv show).
Chad Jennings says Bloom is now shopping Paxton for a young pitcher, with 2024 control. How that helps the '23 playoffs is a complete mystery to me. Paxton did decline his 2024 option to return.
If Devers wants a better team, he needs to set examples and double up on his fielding practice.
I don't buy that approach on Paxton in this situation.
I've come to the sad conclusion that Devers either from here on or next year at the latest must be ejected from third base and be made the permanent DH. I don't think he will ever be a quality third baseman because he has not imp roved in his six plus years w ith the Red Sox. In fact he has gotten worse. It seems every other game he is kicking the ball or throwing it away to add to his embarrassing error total. Besides if DH was good enough for David Ortiz it would be good enough for Devers. And it isn't as if we are devoid of young talent for that postion. Between Blaze Jordan and Dave Meidroth we have a couple of young talents that can man the position for a long time and give us power and talent at the position
But I do see Raffy's point though I disagree with it. We should be sellers now not buyers. The way we stunk up SF in those last two games of the recent series it is time to accept the fact that this team is not capable of keeping the line moving. The A's series should have convinced many of us of that; this series with the Giants should have cemented it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the team blew the Seattle series and pe rhaps being swept up there. From there I could actually see the Red Sox go into the tank a la 2022.
Happy Trade Deadline Day! FYI - Trade Deadlines are now at 6:00PM instead of 4:00 PM.
So, buyers, sellers or piss-poor fringe job like last season? I suspect Bloomer & Company repeat last year OR give up the ship for a couple of seriously tarnished toolsy, but aging vets. My confidence is very low.
Is Duvall all but gone? We could have used Duvall last night twice in PH roles against Lefties, but did not. Not even a late game defense instead of Refsnyder. Last game before the deadline. Not a typical off-day scenario for Cora. He was not on the injury write-up before the game. We'll see.
We are not deep in RF as an organization. We seem to have zero interest in extending Verdugo. Cora is singing his praises just as he has been singing about Pivetta. Not saying it's part of the company's sales efforts and that they're both gone, but I'm trying to not gonna let anything surprise me.
Agreed Mongo, it's not like he's going to make a blockbuster deal that brings them a top of the rotation starter and some defensive help and of course there's always the fear he goes after someone old, like Hill. Nothing about this team this year makes any sense.
OK, I'll go ahead and give Bloom an out here. There is a narrative that Verdugo and Duvall are expendable BECAUSE some think that Raphaela is ready for a call up mid to late August. He would get CF, Duran moving to RF. The backups would be Ref and Reyes, who can play SS and outfield. That again is just a popular scenario.
However, like Ted alluded to, there are little to no last minute plugins via the trade market that will project this team into the playoffs. Bloom just does not have the track record to make impactful deals. He's more nibble and quibble around the edges. He's all about building the network of A and AA farm guys. And the man who writes the checks wants this year to be under the tax line, period.
I've already spewed off what I think of Duran as a Fenway RF'er. IF Rafaela can play RF, then left to right of Yoshida-duran-Rafaela sounds interesting. Rafaela can go back on deep fly balls which is huge in Fenway RF, and his arm will reduce the automatic 1st to 3rd base-running that I think Duran's would be.
So far, most of these trades for prime MLB talent have included minor leaguers who were not about to be rule-5 eligible. Some, yes, but not as much as a few years ago. Many of the ones that did get traded weren't exactly rule-5 draft material that you worry about losing.
Interesting tweet:
Two Red Sox strategies that make the most sense today:
1. Trade for Justin Verlander, and win it all.
2. Blow it up. Trade the short term guys like Turner, Verdugo, Paxton, Martin, Jansen.
Number two is what Bloom really wants.
But ownership is sick of losing, and Bloom has been so terrible at building competitive rosters, and winning trades.
So neither will happen.
A WBZ/CBS article today predicts the Sox trade for a pitcher - on the small scale. The Tigers are making ERod available, he has the Sox connections, and also Michael Lorenzen. That would be a backend of the rotation guy, and the stats on Lorenzen only show about a .5 WAR. The Orioles are also showing interest in ERod. WBZ thinks Sox will hold onto Verdugo and Turner, but likely move Duvall.
Me thinks ERod is going to fetch a big price today unless the Tigers hold out too long (AKA Pulling a Bloom). The high level know-it-all types' articles suggest the Dodgers and Orioles are amongst the bigger stacked systems after him.
Quote from: longgame on August 01, 2023, 09:45:49 AM
Interesting tweet:
Two Red Sox strategies that make the most sense today:
1. Trade for Justin Verlander, and win it all.
2. Blow it up. Trade the short term guys like Turner, Verdugo, Paxton, Martin, Jansen.
Number two is what Bloom really wants.
But ownership is sick of losing, and Bloom has been so terrible at building competitive rosters, and winning trades.
So neither will happen.
Is ownership sick of losing or are they getting sick of being ridiculed in a relentless fashion? I guess it doesn't matter. If you've got a team with a $220M payroll that needs Yu Chang to get off the IL in order to compete, something is wrong. The Bob Dylan Song, "Ballad of a Thin Man" just came to mind. Totally different topic, but same sort of blind eye to what's happening.
Sox are out of the running for Rich Hill. He went to the Padres today. Good. Also the Jays are probably going to get INF Paul DeJong from the Cards.
A message sent along to the Sox from Mets today. They would be interested in Chris Sale in the off-season (Sale's final year)
I wouldn't count the Sox out in the Rich Hill sweepstakes. Bloom might get creative. rofl
Just impressive to see the Jays fix a key position in about 1/2 a day. Kudos to them. Same for losing and getting a fill-in for their closer. What, 2-3 days? It takes the 'Sox 2-3 years, and then it only after severe public disgracing of ownership.
I don't know what else Orioles do today, but I'll say their opponent in the ALCS will be between Rangers and Houston (Verlander). Those two have made a statement the last couple of days.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on August 01, 2023, 02:14:21 PM
I don't know what else Orioles do today, but I'll say their opponent in the ALCS will be between Rangers and Houston (Verlander). Those two have made a statement the last couple of days.
Just saw that Verlander move. Houston gave up their only top 100 prospect. I guess it would be like the Sox giving up Raffaela for him.
Sure seems like Bloom's moves are to bring back McGuire and Story, hope that the pitchers return sooner rather than later and hope they are better than they really are. Probably not a bad no move. They make a Wild card spot, but they couldn't add enough to go far. It would be fine if they didn't suck so bad last year and if we had any hope of their ability to improve the team next year either.
Phillies got Lorenzen(rental) for their #5. Trader Joe is going for it.
I think Bloom has checked out. There's a report out that he put all his chips today on getting Rich Hill. But the Padres arrived and got him. He frittered around and did the Vaz trade last year, not good for the clubhouse. His only deal this year is disposing of Kike'. Maybe there were 3-4 ex-Dodgers who will resent that one.
Imagine two straight years of Sox trade deadline nothingness?
ERod nixed the Dodgers trade. Doh!
Well at 15 min past the deadline, Sox announced they traded for another INF - dada! Luis Urias. Batting .145 this year, .235 career. -0.5 WAR , slash .145, .299, .236, .535. In June he played 2B and 3B for the Brewers.
Trade: The Boston Red Sox are acquiring infielder Luis Urias from the Milwaukee Brewers, according to sources familiar with the deal.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on August 01, 2023, 05:26:03 PM
Well at 15 min past the deadline, Sox announced they traded for another INF - dada! Luis Urias. Batting .145 this year, .240 career. -0.5 WAR , slash .145, .299, .236, .535. Last week he played 2B and 3B for the Brewers.
Trade: The Boston Red Sox are acquiring infielder Luis Urias from the Milwaukee Brewers, according to sources familiar with the deal.
please tell me this was a cash transaction. Regardless ..... rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
So two straight deadlines and we get nothing to use later for ...... oh, whatever. No Adam Duvall prize, just like no JDM prize. I was getting wicked nervous when they showed Jean Segura saying goodbyes. Thankfully it was to Cleveland and not us.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on August 01, 2023, 05:40:37 PM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on August 01, 2023, 05:26:03 PM
Well at 15 min past the deadline, Sox announced they traded for another INF - dada! Luis Urias. Batting .145 this year, .240 career. -0.5 WAR , slash .145, .299, .236, .535. In June he played 2B and 3B for the Brewers.
Trade: The Boston Red Sox are acquiring infielder Luis Urias from the Milwaukee Brewers, according to sources familiar with the deal.
please tell me this was a cash transaction. Regardless ..... rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
So two straight deadlines and we get nothing to use later for ...... oh, whatever. No Adam Duvall prize, just like no JDM prize. I was getting wicked nervous when they showed Jean Segura saying goodbyes. Thankfully it was to Cleveland and not us.
To complete the trade we sent to Milwaukee pitcher Bradley Blalock in Salem, our #37.. Coming of TJS last year.
What a disaster.
Big loser on the day is Bobby Dalbec.
Filene's Basement may be long gone but Bloom continues the tradition of buying everyone's mark downs. He is striving for the new major league record for having the most utility players passing through the roster in a year.
The Sox apparently found some good value in Urias. Still young at 26. Was out first two months with hammy. Hit .265 in AAA, and .145 in MLB this year in 60 AB. A good walk rate and nice glove tool at 2B and 3B. Will probably be starting 2B next year. 2+ years control at $4.3m. The infield has been a cluster all year. Maybe this guy and Story will shore up a bad defense.
What's the message? To me Bloom said it all, in not so many words. We're not going to make any moves because the team isn't going anywhere. I'm actually okay with that philosophy, but if that's the case then exchange some short term guys for depth. This is not that tough. I'm wondering if other teams just laugh and offer the lowest level guy they can just to see what they can get away with so they can fleece this guy.
Disappointing, but at least they rebounded and won.
Yeah, I've got some mixed feelings on this deadline year and the whole string of deadline deal years this guy has put together. It went downhill after Pivetta, and his success has varied. The Pirates pulled it off nicely. Then again, we are in the thick of a Wild Card race. The tension can ease up.
Good piece by Bradford on the Sox non-productive trade deadline. https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/identifying-red-sox-as-underdogs-was-wrong-path-to-take?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/identifying-red-sox-as-underdogs-was-wrong-path-to-take?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
At the end of the day, I think Bloom looked at his lethargic trade deadline as a means for preserving the Mayer/Raphaela/Yorke nucleus of the next good Sox team. Yesterday he acted like his job is secure. If he thought his job was on the line, he would have traded one of those prospects for a good pitcher and tried to help the 2023 team - the cost of trading for a Giolito or maybe a Verlander, costing more.
Somebody must be telling him it's OK to stay the course, or maybe those people don't care about getting into a ALDS series this year to satisfy the fans.
Quote from: longgame on August 02, 2023, 08:26:58 AM
Good piece by Bradford on the Sox non-productive trade deadline. https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/identifying-red-sox-as-underdogs-was-wrong-path-to-take?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/identifying-red-sox-as-underdogs-was-wrong-path-to-take?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
He certainly took issue with the Underdog comment. I found that comment surprising, too. I'm not sure I agree with the arguments for the objection, but I do understand the objection itself. To me, it's just more of the same old contrived Bloom spin-speak.
In the end, I really would have preferred that NESN not put up that excerpt of Bloom's digital press conference up on my TV. I was having a nice evening and he ruined my mood for a few minutes. I don't really care to see that guy spin his accounts of the situation up on my TV screen. I certainly don't want to hear his spins about ball players, team building and gauging the clubhouse temperature.
What we've seen this past few weeks (maybe a lot longer) is an inability to make a deal with anyone other than LA, CWS, KC and Milwaukee that doesn't involve a DFA. Others here have suggested that Bloom and the Sox are not respected by their counterparts on other teams. If Bloom is indeed exhausting (or other) to deal with, they will not waste their precious deadline time cycles trying to get something done with him. That alone renders him an ineffective executive.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on August 02, 2023, 08:29:01 AM
At the end of the day, I think Bloom looked at his lethargic trade deadline as a means for preserving the Mayer/Raphaela/Yorke nucleus of the next good Sox team. Yesterday he acted like his job is secure. If he thought his job was on the line, he would have traded one of those prospects for a good pitcher and tried to help the 2023 team - the cost of trading for a Giolito or maybe a Verlander, costing more.
Somebody must be telling him it's OK to stay the course, or maybe those people don't care about getting into a ALDS series this year to satisfy the fans.
Strangely I support Bloom's reluctance to get into a deep trading war the last few days. First of all, it isn't because I think he is doing a bang-up job. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact. I was scared shitless that he would make some mediocre pitching moves that would cost us guys like Mayer, Rafaela, Yorke, Jordan and the like for mediocrities that would never move the needle for us the next two months. We do have some good young players and we need to keep the cream of the crop and trade off the crap of the cream. I just wish Bloom wasn't in charge of doing that because I have become convinced he doesn't know talent worth shit. But he did make the right call this past weekend IMHO.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on August 02, 2023, 09:05:51 AM
Quote from: longgame on August 02, 2023, 08:26:58 AM
Good piece by Bradford on the Sox non-productive trade deadline. https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/identifying-red-sox-as-underdogs-was-wrong-path-to-take?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/identifying-red-sox-as-underdogs-was-wrong-path-to-take?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
He certainly took issue with the Underdog comment. I found that comment surprising, too. I'm not sure I agree with the arguments for the objection, but I do understand the objection itself. To me, it's just more of the same old contrived Bloom spin-speak.
In the end, I really would have preferred that NESN not put up that excerpt of Bloom's digital press conference up on my TV. I was having a nice evening and he ruined my mood for a few minutes. I don't really care to see that guy spin his accounts of the situation up on my TV screen. I certainly don't want to hear his spins about ball players, team building and gauging the clubhouse temperature.
What we've seen this past few weeks (maybe a lot longer) is an inability to make a deal with anyone other than LA, CWS, KC and Milwaukee that doesn't involve a DFA. Others here have suggested that Bloom and the Sox are not respected by their counterparts on other teams. If Bloom is indeed exhausting (or other) to deal with, they will not waste their precious deadline time cycles trying to get something done with him. That alone renders him an ineffective executive.
Ineffective Mongo? I have a more appropriate word.........
INCOMPETENT!!!!!!!
I'd be interested in what the front office thinks, but I'd think that based on Bloom's comments, he has a narrow range of results after stating his lukewarm "confidence" in his "underdog" team.
Miss the playoffs altogether - Gone
Make the WC, lose the play in - borderline
Make the ALDS - gone - should have invested in the team
Make the ALCS - Stays - success beyond expectation.
He's probably hoping for #2 as the best possible case.
Quote from: longgame on August 03, 2023, 07:19:06 AM
I'd be interested in what the front office thinks, but I'd think that based on Bloom's comments, he has a narrow range of results after stating his lukewarm "confidence" in his "underdog" team.
Miss the playoffs altogether - Gone
Make the WC, lose the play in - borderline
Make the ALDS - gone - should have invested in the team
Make the ALCS - Stays - success beyond expectation.
He's probably hoping for #2 as the best possible case.
If you're talking about Bloom's lifeline, I don't think those results matter - for him. I think his job is secure this year. However, if outcomes 1 and 2 take place, I think Cora is the sacrificial lamb, he's gone.
I believe that Cora is not a happy camper. Bloom's failure to improve the club and his micromanagement of the day to day roster (which I think is occurring) is a source of tension.
From Blooms perspective he can make a legitimate case to ownership that Cora does not have his team ready to play. Any one who watches them play can see that this is not a well coached team. I think Cora was not Blooms guy from the outset. I do not think he was ever Blooms first choice as manager but was a forced hire.
Unless there is some wild miracle of circumstances and Boston has a lengthy play off run, Cora is gone IMO.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on August 03, 2023, 09:17:24 AM
Quote from: longgame on August 03, 2023, 07:19:06 AM
I'd be interested in what the front office thinks, but I'd think that based on Bloom's comments, he has a narrow range of results after stating his lukewarm "confidence" in his "underdog" team.
Miss the playoffs altogether - Gone
Make the WC, lose the play in - borderline
Make the ALDS - gone - should have invested in the team
Make the ALCS - Stays - success beyond expectation.
He's probably hoping for #2 as the best possible case.
If you're talking about Bloom's lifeline, I don't think those results matter - for him. I think his job is secure this year. However, if outcomes 1 and 2 take place, I think Cora is the sacrificial lamb, he's gone.
I had 3 big knocks against Cora going into the year. His ability to kill off pitchers, that teacher's pet thing and his inability to allow young talent to blossom. He did alright with Duran, Casas and Wong this season, not to mention fine showings from the younger pitchers.
I think he played his cards very well early in the season with his "this is what you give me for ball players, this is what you get" as far as managing decisions go. The teams' fielding woes should not be what they are. Veterans missing cutoff guys, near collisions and confusion on popups AND ground balls now. This might be the nail in that coffin.
On the opposite end, we have Bloom. Sooner or later, word might get back to Ownership just how little is thought of Bloom by his peers. That in itself is a crippling attribute to team building. Missing opportunities to use high quality, high character trade bait two years in a row to better your organization is no small miss.
Quote from: elktonnick on August 03, 2023, 09:33:59 AM
I believe that Cora is not a happy camper. Bloom's failure to improve the club and his micromanagement of the day to day roster (which I think is occurring) is a source of tension.
From Blooms perspective he can make a legitimate case to ownership that Cora does not have his team ready to play. Any one who watches them play can see that this is not a well coached team. I think Cora was not Blooms guy from the outset. I do not think he was ever Blooms first choice as manager but was a forced hire.
Unless there is some wild miracle of circumstances and Boston has a lengthy play off run, Cora is gone IMO.
Well said Elk; you hit a homer with me on that one-----and probably with your wonderful wife too as she is probably knee deep in the blues along with the rest of us. It did hit me after your post that Bloom could actually be micromanaging the team, but either way the team isn't doing the job because I think both men are incompetent dolts whose only talent is to give the team a double dose of incompetence. I would be more than a little chapped if both dweebs are back with the team next season. For heaven's sake, we need to jettison at least one of them.
Maybe instead of continually rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic they'll take out the Captain and the First Officer. Then we start all over again.
Now the MLB Red Sox site is using the nauseating "underdogs" thing in articles. I swear it's gonna become a frigging marketing campaign. Tee-shirts on the players warm ups, coaches forced to wear them, etc. Just disgusting.
Baseball has been overrun with the whiz-kids running everything from positioning to pitching, fielding(plays) and batting strategy of all forms. Joe Maddon even bitched about it on his exit presser. That was what, two years ago?
Rosenthal reported that Bloom was very close to dealing Justin Turner to the Marlins. Was the asking return INF Joey Windell ?? Hopefully it was pitching.
He did say Bloom contacted Mets about Verlander.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on August 03, 2023, 07:39:57 PM
Rosenthal reported that Bloom was very close to dealing Justin Turner to the Marlins. Was the asking return INF Joey Windell ?? Hopefully it was pitching.
He did say Bloom contacted Mets about Verlander.
After every trade deadline since Bloom we have heard the same nonsense about trade deals that almost were but did not happen. IMO it is all part of the great spin machine to convince gullible fans that the FO really really wants to do what is necessary to win.
I do not believe a word of it.
It was the Marlins who thought they were close to a deal before it fell through. I can't imagine any deal would have been for anything other than pitching.
The more interesting question I have is why the deal fell through. Last year it was a JDM deal.
I'm sure we kicked the tires on lots of people. I have my doubts that we went very far with the Verlander thing. I can't see Verlander thinking Boston would be the place to go with it's iffy management practices.
I'm torn between whether he could have received some value or just stockpiled pieces like he usually does.
They should make t-shirts that say "Underdogs who can't close a deal".
Some fallout news from the trade deadline. I just read that Arroyo cleared Waivers and was Outrighted to Worcester. I thought he would have been snatched up by someone.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on August 07, 2023, 07:33:59 AM
Some fallout news from the trade deadline. I just read that Arroyo cleared Waivers and was Outrighted to Worcester. I thought he would have been snatched up by someone.
I think I read that Arroyo now has to accept the Worcester role to keep his pension. Becoming a free-agent, he would have to start with a clean slate.
Well now we know why they kept Reyes - he can pitch too. Our own Shohei. Best pitcher the Sox ran out there yesterday.
A sort of interesting, albeit incomplete article in the Athletic by Ken Rosenthal about the Red Sox plight with Chaim Bloom at the helm. Nothing new to anyone around these parts. If anything else, he goes overboard to be fair and balanced. Basically he's questioning whether or not he'll have the nerve to get it done if he ever does finally get the core assembled. That, and if he'll ever understand that it's more than a math equation.
https://theathletic.com/4754438/2023/08/07/boston-red-sox-chaim-bloom-trade-deadline/ (https://theathletic.com/4754438/2023/08/07/boston-red-sox-chaim-bloom-trade-deadline/)
He writes on of these about every six months for the past couple of years. It's about as kind as he gets with Bloom.