Sea Dog brought this up twice recently. I thought it'd be good for a thread. We all know the overall situation and the smaller positional situations.
What's your take. Are we Buyers? Sellers? Whom? When? What would it take to compete? Who are your untouchable pieces in the minors? All kinds of possibilities, especially with Bloom in charge.
Bloom will buy from Dollar General and Goodwill! And sell for prospects.
I'll deflect to you on our minor league guys, you follow them a lot closer than I although you have to think Dalbec since they haven't brought him up no matter how poorly Casas plays. I've seen everyone from Kenley to Martin, maybe Turner or Kike (although Cora loves the guy) mentioned. Duval is on a cheap one year contract so that's an easy one. They probably couldn't move Kluber or Pivetta unless they ate salary. Frankly other than Yoshida and Devers, maybe Verdugo, and Whitlock and Bello, everyone else is probably expendable. Then we can have another last place team next year too while paying for those guys to play elsewhere and limiting our ability to pay professionals.
Nothing of value will accrue until Chaim Bloom and Bora BoraCora are jettisoned once and for all from the Red Sox roster. Cora plays favorites, has never come out cleanly and admitted that he cheated and that his pathetic ST regimen in 2019 put the team on the road to endless heartache and failure from that point on. Even the 2021 revival was doomed to fail since they didn't have enough smarts to keep some of the guys they refused to resign or traded them away for trash like Bradley and others. As for Bloom, he has been an unmitigated disaster from every point on view and the longer he stays the worse it will be for us. Don't be surprised that he trades away prospects who become stars and retains some that will be some of the biggest duds in Red Sox annals. The man just does not know talent and how to build a team. Until that is done this topic is not worth much to any of us, though I would say that Mayer and Yorke and a couple of others are absolute keepers, so someone should beat that into Bloom's alleged brain.
As far as Dalbec is concerned, the one area that has eluded him is the swing and miss. He's whiffing at a 40% K-Rate. My no-trade list runs deeper than the popular Mayer, Rafaela, Bleis, Yorke group until we have a team that can make a major push.
My buy and sell right now is a mixed bag. Starting with buy. On August 2nd, we could have a starting lineup of Wong, Casas, Arroyo, Devers, Story, Yoshida, Duvall/Kike, Verdugo and Turner(DH). Reyes, Duran, Refsnyder and McGuire on the bench. It's a solid group. Starters Paxton, Houck, Whitlock, Bello, Crawford/Sale(9th). If Crawford stretches out more and Houck's progress to that end continues, it's a solid and somewhat young group. A couple of big ifs, though. We'll know more in a month. BP is Jansen, Martin, Winckowski, Bernardino and then a huge crop of question marks due to performance and injury issues.
Does that look like a major playoff push in the making, or a contender for a near bottom Wildcard seed spot? We have a good solid month to figure that out.
The one player that's not being set up to play any part of this is Rafaela. I think the Sox are playing control years games on this. Maybe they're afraid of the heat if he should do well in AAA. I say promote him now and see what he has in AAA for 5-6 weeks before the trade deadline. Perhaps he makes Duvall and Kike more expendable than they are. If anything else, the more years he can play in Boston in his prime youth, the better.
Rafaela appeared in a NESN article I found linked to from the SosProspects.com site. Not sure what kind of little word games O Halleran is playing here, but Fafaela is "Close to being ready" for his promotion to AAA. I hope it happens soon for any chance of him being a factor in what happens this year.
There's an article up today that the Sox could be contemplating a deal at the deadline for a rotation guy.It's written by Jim Bowden, who is less than accurate with things, but it was published on Inside the Red Sox site. The name he bounced was Shane Bieber. News that he COULD BE had at a more favorable price for Boston.
Also news now that Houck suffered more than a "contusion" the other night. It is now listed as a "facial fracture". Sox are starting to look really thin for pitching. Which poses a question for Paxton, who is now idle on six days rest, but scheduled to work against Twins tonight.
I read an article on my computer today from some baseball source who insists there has and is some real dissension between Alex Cora and Chaim Bloom. As for its accuracy I don't know where the author got his information from but it sort of takes away the notion I had that these two guys were thicker than thieves and working in tandem with some of their miserable moves personnel wise the past couple of years. It further stated that Bloom may be shown the exit to unemployment BEFORE the trading deadline since some members of the Red Sox top honchos do NOT want this guy to be in charge of any more trades that might make the team look even worse that it has been since the start of the '22 season. Well all you have to do is look at the Hunter Renfroe trade for that miserable Jackie Bradley Jr. and his 163 average in 2021` and that may all you need to know, but there have been some that could actually compare to that pathetic one.
Renfroe is still hitting for power, demonstrating a powerful throwing arm and solid leadership for the Angels while JBJ is not out of baseball. Oh, I now get it. The front office wants Bloom out because they fear he may actually sign Bradley again since he is now out of baseball after being jettisoned by the Royals with a 143 average. Well I wouldn't trust Bloom either. Would any of you????
Fred, old friend, my sister who lives in Boston and who feels about Cora as you and I, told me a couple of weeks ago that there was a lot of talk that Cora and Bloom were having issues with each other. Precisely what the source of disagreement was unclear
Some speculated it was about the quality of ballplayer Bloom was signing others about micromanagement of the lineup from above.
Today should be a big day for the Red Sox. Houck and the Red Sox find find out if surgery is in store, and maybe the down time either way it works out. Gotta feel bad for the kid. I imagine he wants to get out there ASAP.
My wife suggested a Jaylen Brown(Celtics) mask. :)
At any rate, if Houck is out long-term, it could change what we do. Pitching is always an iffy situation. Defense seems like it stabilized. Offense seems like it's not pressing as much, but still room to go.
We can win out the road trip and still not know. It's the two weeks after that. Marlins, Blue Jays and Rangers followed by the A's heading into the All Star break. If we play over 500 ball against the good clubs and demolish the Twins, White Sox and A's, I might be active in on buying. A lot needs to happen, though, and it starts with Houck's situation. For me, anyway.
Well we screwed the pooch on the road trip and started this tough stretch with a low point in the season type of blow-out game. We don't really decide to buy or sell right now due simply to limited dance partners. Most teams are still assessing their situations and getting ready for the draft. I think we will end up in a position where we should be sellers in a traditional sense.
On the opposite end, I think there is no way we should be buyers. This is not a championship caliber team. Period. It never was and we all knew it this past Winter. We all know why it happened. My real objection to becoming a buyer this season is that it puts 2025 and beyond at risk. I believe that to be the case even if we only trade away fringe prospects. Those fringe prospects are what's going to get us that extra professional RH bat or that 2nd LHP BP guy that we'll need 2 years from now.
Last season should have been year #1 that we bit the bullet. We screwed it up, and we all know why and how. It's obvious.
Only problem with being sellers is that we are kind of short on inventory for big trade deadline deals. We've got one huge impact SP rental with Paxton if he can stay healthy for a few more starts. We've got a nice Closer who's made the late career and pitch clock adjustments for now. We may get a decent return if we eat some of that $$$. Martin's behind Jansen for anyone hunting a professional late inning guy. Duval and Turner can change any line-up to some extent. A team might even want Kike for bench depth.
Additionally, this is the max value time for Verdugo if we have indeed become Tampa North. He's playing well, hitting even better and has a full year of control left. Pivetta fits into this category, too, if he continues to do well in the BP. It almost seems like the plan the way Cora is cherry picking spots for him. Arroyo fits too, though to a lesser extent due to his injury history.
A side deal for a small market team to try to improve a bad 3B situation would be Dalbec. We might get a couple of 1-tool Bloomer Boy Specials out of it.
We could get lucky and have Joely and/or Bleier healed and figured it all out in time to make a few nice appearances before the deadline. Maybe a team needing anything close to breathing level back end guys could look for Ort and Garza types, but there will be limited return.
Certainly as of today they have to be penciled in as sellers. But I can see them saying "we're almost in the hunt for a WC spot" and double down. The problem is they can't figure out how to build a lineup. I like Verdugo and think an outfield built around him and Yoshida could be good. Extend Verdugo before he puts up even more numbers and you've locked in your RF and LF for a few years. Devers is here for the rest of his career so is 3B his place or can he DH? I can't see him moving in the field and the fielding at 3B has been too undependable. Signs he improves then signs he's regressed. If he's DH, then don't sign any more aging DH types because you want him in the lineup every day. Who else is a keeper on the offensive side? I can't think of anyone. Casas projects at best to be mediocre. Duran may be a 4th OF. Duvall appears to be a rental. I simply don't think Hernandez adds anything and was not impressed with Story. Wong may be okay at catcher but not someone to necessarily build around. The pitching just always seems to be a mess between injuries and lack of performance. Signing old guys is not a viable strategy. Fortunately we have Bello and Whitlock, but let's get a bona fide ace. I'm not impressed with Jansen, runs cold at times, but we could do worse. Bullpen arms always have to be sorted out so that's a whole other story. But if we're starting a game with Ort then that signifies a serious lack of talent in that group.
Quote from: longgame on June 28, 2023, 11:18:41 AM
Certainly as of today they have to be penciled in as sellers. But I can see them saying "we're almost in the hunt for a WC spot" and double down. The problem is they can't figure out how to build a lineup. I like Verdugo and think an outfield built around him and Yoshida could be good. Extend Verdugo before he puts up even more numbers and you've locked in your RF and LF for a few years. Devers is here for the rest of his career so is 3B his place or can he DH? I can't see him moving in the field and the fielding at 3B has been too undependable. Signs he improves then signs he's regressed. If he's DH, then don't sign any more aging DH types because you want him in the lineup every day. Who else is a keeper on the offensive side? I can't think of anyone. Casas projects at best to be mediocre. Duran may be a 4th OF. Duvall appears to be a rental. I simply don't think Hernandez adds anything and was not impressed with Story. Wong may be okay at catcher but not someone to necessarily build around. The pitching just always seems to be a mess between injuries and lack of performance. Signing old guys is not a viable strategy. Fortunately we have Bello and Whitlock, but let's get a bona fide ace. I'm not impressed with Jansen, runs cold at times, but we could do worse. Bullpen arms always have to be sorted out so that's a whole other story. But if we're starting a game with Ort then that signifies a serious lack of talent in that group.
Excellent summary of the current situation. I would also stress that the persistent mental errors and lapses in basic fundamentals is very troubling. Personally I think the organization is lost. They became so data driven they lost the culture of playing solid baseball. If I had my way I would clean house,coaches manager and most of the fo personnel. They need a new culture, one that defeats mediocrity.
No need for me to comment in any way to the points you and Ted made because I couldn't do better if I tried. You two laid out in stark bold statements. We are a team that cannot pitch, cannot field, cannot hit consistently and is led by a baseball ops director who is a mismatch when it comes to knowing how to run a ball club. It's all there for the rest of our colleagues to digest what you two wrote because it says it all. If last night's "homecoming" didn't hit reality for the team square in the face we had better watch out before this board becomes a pollyanna copycat of some other boards who have gone the way of the unicorn. AND WE MUST NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVEN THINK OF TRADING REAL TOP NOTCH PR OSPECTS LIKE MAYER, YORKE, AND A FEW OF THE OTHERS WHO ARE MAKING THEIR WAY UP THE LADDER AND NOW ARE IN DOUBLE AA.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 28, 2023, 11:51:43 AM
.......Personally I think the organization is lost. They became so data driven they lost the culture of playing solid baseball. If I had my way I would clean house,coaches manager and most of the fo personnel. They need a new culture, one that defeats mediocrity.
I agree with you on just about everything except them being lost. They are not lost. They are just plain wrong. This team and the minor league system is by design.
The folks in charge now under Blooms direction were the ones that leaked disgruntlement out to the press about Dombrowski and his closest advisors working in Autonomy. Well, yeah!!! Imagine a knowledgeable baseball man being bombarded with these sorts of nonsensical notions that have become the mantra of this version of the Red Sox organization? I wouldn't listen to them, either.
However, Trader Joe ultimately lost and they turned the keys over to this group with a perfect fit leader in Chaim Bloom. The rest is history. This needs dismantling and replaced with baseball people before we ruin the assets we have.
The next blunder(s) will be allowing Bloom and his advisors to conduct the baseball draft and then allow the same crew to dispose of our star players in hopes of finding a couple lotto picks from a Milwaukee or a Dodger AA ball solution. That will happen, but we'll have a deeper hole to dig out of if they're not cleaned out.
On top of all the angst to come, the 2024 FA market is really thin on field players, and our minor league boys won't be able to fill all the holes.
As to the hot prospects they have, not only can they not trade them, but they have to start planning for these guys in a couple of years. Let's not develop guys and then block them at the MLB level because we just signed someone for 5 years at the same position.
Something has to change because it's getting harder and harder to watch.
I think the biggest consensus we all have is that we don't want to see our good prospects traded away to beef of this team. By default, that means we don't want this team to be buyers.
There is no shortage of "Buyers of Sellers" articles in the national press this time of year. The Athletic published one today. It seems they are not as convinced as we are. Here's the Red Sox section of that article.
Quote"You’d be much in demand in the extensive Boston media landscape if you could offer a cohesive explanation of how the Red Sox have been run since their 2018 championship. (Such a thread would invariably start with “It’s time for some game theory.â€) Last summer’s trade deadline machinations might have been Chaim Bloom’s most confusing moves yet: In dealing away Christian Vázquez but not J.D. Martinez while also bringing in Eric Hosmer and Tommy Pham, the Red Sox failed to get under the luxury tax or to notably improve either their present club or their future ones. They’re trending toward a similar spot in the standings now, and one imagines a similar approach with an emphasis on improving the starting rotation. â€" TB"
I was disappointed they chickened out on this. I would have liked to seen an outsider's take on what value we could get for certain chips (Duvall, Kike, Paxton, Jansen, etc)
Everything about this team is confusing from the press who cover it to fan reactions to the slop we see on display on the field. Some people will still argue, in the face of a slew of facts to the contrary, that Bloom is doing a good job - both fans and some of the sycophantic press. They've bought the whole "develop the farm club" line after they successfully dealt away some of the best guys to come through that system. They take chances on old guys while having a young guy like Wacha that would have been available for a decent price. They can't seem to develop a bullpen.
There was a time when every minute of every day at this time of year that Boston Sports Media would be raking this team over the coals. Now they talk about the Patriots 24/7/365.
Quote from: longgame on June 30, 2023, 12:21:02 PM
Everything about this team is confusing from the press who cover it to fan reactions to the slop we see on display on the field. Some people will still argue, in the face of a slew of facts to the contrary, that Bloom is doing a good job - both fans and some of the sycophantic press. They've bought the whole "develop the farm club" line after they successfully dealt away some of the best guys to come through that system. They take chances on old guys while having a young guy like Wacha that would have been available for a decent price. They can't seem to develop a bullpen.
There was a time when every minute of every day at this time of year that Boston Sports Media would be raking this team over the coals. Now they talk about the Patriots 24/7/365.
A wise man once said, the opposite of love is not hate but indifference. Henry has managed to create an atmosphere of indifference. Even at its lowest point New Englanders were never indifferent to the Red Sox like they are today. Henry may become a textbook case of how to destroy the value of a sports franchise. Rags to riches back to rags in one generation.
We all suffered a lot of those years and never lost passion for the team. It's amazing what they can do to a fan base by acting like they're doing a good job while the measurable results show differently.
On the topic of possible trade chips:
Dalbec has not had any game time in AAA since a DH'er on the 29th. He played both games without being subbed for. Turns out he was hit by a pitch in his left hand and that began to swell following the 2nd game. X-rays were negative. They are waiting on a CT scan. Worcester's Manager says he'll be back in action this week if the CT scans end up coming back clean.
One thing has never been so obvious as this. Cora has ZERO interest in Dalbec ATM.
So it's a little over 2 weeks before trade deadline and I still have not formed an opinion on being buyers or sellers. Being down 2+ Starters is tough. I'd love to see Crawford take a nice step forward in that direction and make us down just the 2 starters for now.
Our biggest blunder is the team-wide defensive slump. These guys are playing defense with the same twisted up sphincters that killed the offense with runners on base last season. Yesterday's 3rd inning is a great example. We could have bailed Paxton out of his rough inning if we had simply played an OK defense. Instead we played awful defense with Kike leading the way yet again. 5 minutes later we're down 6 runs when we should have been down by 1. Game over.
Winning teams make the play Kike missed. He cheated yet again and got burned yet again with that bad anticipation of his. A player can get caught on the wrong foot, but he had taken steps in the other direction by the time the ball hit the bat. His coaches had him positioned perfectly. I also think Wong should have caught that Devers throw. It hit him on the heal of the mitt. Bad throw yes, but Wong had time I don't think he thought he had. A Rookie mistake, perhaps.
My two big questions: #1: Will the Sox hold on to winning ways last long enough this Month to be relevant despite the Starters being out? #2: Will Story's assumption of SS in August magically set the team at ease and play better overall defense?
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 16, 2023, 09:23:55 AM
So it's a little over 2 weeks before trade deadline and I still have not formed an opinion on being buyers or sellers. Being down 2+ Starters is tough. I'd love to see Crawford take a nice step forward in that direction and make us down just the 2 starters for now.
Our biggest blunder is the team-wide defensive slump. These guys are playing defense with the same twisted up sphincters that killed the offense with runners on base last season. Yesterday's 3rd inning is a great example. We could have bailed Paxton out of his rough inning if we had simply played an OK defense. Instead we played awful defense with Kike leading the way yet again. 5 minutes later we're down 6 runs when we should have been down by 1. Game over.
Winning teams make the play Kike missed. He cheated yet again and got burned yet again with that bad anticipation of his. A player can get caught on the wrong foot, but he had taken steps in the other direction by the time the ball hit the bat. His coaches had him positioned perfectly. I also think Wong should have caught that Devers throw. It hit him on the heal of the mitt. Bad throw yes, but Wong had time I don't think he thought he had. A Rookie mistake, perhaps.
My two big questions: #1: Will the Sox hold on to winning ways last long enough this Month to be relevant despite the Starters being out? #2: Will Story's assumption of SS in August magically set the team at ease and play better overall defense?
Right now the word is out the team must drop one player to make up for one they are activating and I hope the one they drop is Kiki Hernandez He has been absolutely horrible this season save for a couple of good games against the Yankees. He is a sieve in the infield, his hitting has been subpar but we all know that he is a big favorite of Alex Cora who seem to have them and plays them as we've seen the past couple of years. Arroyo stays, and Hernandez goes and the reinstated player stays as well. It is high time Cora is called on the carpet and told in no uncertain terms that his playing of his personal favorites has to go or he goes.
Sports Illustrated has an article up that the Sox and Cardinals may have had a casual talk about trading for Cards' 2B Brendon Donovan. He is batting about .270 this year, and his value - he is under protection through 2028. I don't know how much time MGT has spent so much energy around the SS/2B the last year.
But with the mistakes made around the MIF, starting rotation, the catching, the bullpen, it seems that Boston is going down another rabbit hole yet again.
https://www.si.com/mlb/cardinals/.amp/news/cardinals-slugger-loosely-linked-to-red-sox-as-trade-rumors-heat-up-nate3
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 17, 2023, 07:04:10 AM
Sports Illustrated has an article up that the Sox and Cardinals may have had a casual talk about trading for Cards' 2B Brendon Donovan. He is batting about .270 this year, and his value - he is under protection through 2028. I don't know how much time MGT has spent so much energy around the SS/2B the last year.
But with the mistakes made around the MIF, starting rotation, the catching, the bullpen, it seems that Boston is going down another rabbit hole yet again.
https://www.si.com/mlb/cardinals/.amp/news/cardinals-slugger-loosely-linked-to-red-sox-as-trade-rumors-heat-up-nate3
I wonder why the Cardinals would consider trading him with so much time due on his Rookie deal? He won a Gold Glove as a utility player last year. I didn't even know Utility GG was a thing.
Seems obvious enough reason the Bloom-led Red Sox would want him. Looks like a great fit for Bloomer's Tampa North ball. Only problem is that he's another LH bat. His primary positions are 2B and Corner OF, more LF and RF, We already have defense in RF and 2B (when Arroyo starts). He's not going to take AB's away from Yoshida or Turner(DH) anytime soon. He hits 60 points higher against RHP than LHP. Seems like Refsnyder's opposite number minus the absurd nature of Refsnyder's splits.
This has all the earmarks of another build from the fringes with a square into a round hole move on it. He could cost us someone we like while marginally improving our team at best. Are they thinking a platoon at 2B with Arroyo? That's the most impact, and it's not all positive. Late inning sub for Yoshida?
IMHO, this is not a difference making move.
Keep poor Arroyo on the field until he breaks. I don't get it, the guy is a solid ballplayer. We don't need another guy out of position!
I'm still on the fence with this team. I'm OK with some of the young player blunders. They happen. The solid veterans have to be solid. I think I'm talking about Devers, Kike and Turner (when he's in the field).
Quote from: longgame on July 18, 2023, 08:58:44 AM
Keep poor Arroyo on the field until he breaks. I don't get it, the guy is a solid ballplayer. We don't need another guy out of position!
Cora's seemed quite content to insert Turner in there this past week. He's not looking great out in the field. (I'm being nice) In a few weeks' time, we could see Story and Arroyo as the primary Middle Infield setup. I fear that Arroyo's holding the short straw in Cora's plans.
The Sox are in desperate need of a pitcher in the roatation. The Tigers' RH Michael Lorenzon or our old friend ERod are names that have been bandied about and seem to be in Bloom's budget for the impact of taking on their remaining '23 contract. A plug in for the pitching staff could make or break the Sox hopes of making the playoffs, or not.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 23, 2023, 07:01:27 AM
I'm still on the fence with this team. I'm OK with some of the young player blunders. They happen. The solid veterans have to be solid. I think I'm talking about Devers, Kike and Turner (when he's in the field).
Quote from: longgame on July 18, 2023, 08:58:44 AM
Keep poor Arroyo on the field until he breaks. I don't get it, the guy is a solid ballplayer. We don't need another guy out of position!
Cora's seemed quite content to insert Turner in there this past week. He's not looking great out in the field. (I'm being nice) In a few weeks' time, we could see Story and Arroyo as the primary Middle Infield setup. I fear that Arroyo's holding the short straw in Cora's plans.
Cora will do anything to keep fielding sieve Kiki Hernandez in the lineup. What more needs to be said. It is plainly obvious that Cora favors the guy like he was his own kid and that bodes ill will for the team. Why someone in the front office can't see this astounds me. Simply put Arroyo has been jerked around by the smartest man in the room for the better part of three seasons. Yes, Christian seems unable to stay on the field and it is almost like he is made of tissue paper but he is infinitely better than Hernandez. Then again, this gets old because Cora keeps doind this and getting away with it. We have to hope that someone upstairs wakes up and sends both Bloom and Alex packing.
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on July 23, 2023, 11:40:04 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 23, 2023, 07:01:27 AM
I'm still on the fence with this team. I'm OK with some of the young player blunders. They happen. The solid veterans have to be solid. I think I'm talking about Devers, Kike and Turner (when he's in the field).
Quote from: longgame on July 18, 2023, 08:58:44 AM
Keep poor Arroyo on the field until he breaks. I don't get it, the guy is a solid ballplayer. We don't need another guy out of position!
Cora's seemed quite content to insert Turner in there this past week. He's not looking great out in the field. (I'm being nice) In a few weeks' time, we could see Story and Arroyo as the primary Middle Infield setup. I fear that Arroyo's holding the short straw in Cora's plans.
Cora will do anything to keep fielding sieve Kiki Hernandez in the lineup. What more needs to be said. It is plainly obvious that Cora favors the guy like he was his own kid and that bodes ill will for the team. Why someone in the front office can't see this astounds me. Simply put Arroyo has been jerked around by the smartest man in the room for the better part of three seasons. Yes, Christian seems unable to stay on the field and it is almost like he is made of tissue paper but he is infinitely better than Hernandez. Then again, this gets old because Cora keeps doind this and getting away with it. We have to hope that someone upstairs wakes up and sends both Bloom and Alex packing.
To add to the crowded infield, there's Story. He played SS in his rehab at Portland today. By end of next week, somebody will be DFA'd or traded, among Arroyo, Kike, or Pablo.
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.
The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.
The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.
Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.
The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.
Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
I'm with you on that one. :)
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 08:17:03 AM
Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.
The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.
Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
I'm with you on that one. :)
As of awhile ago there was a clubhouse meeting, attended by Arroyo-Reyes-Kike', and some others. The word is Kike' has been traded. I'm guessing LA, based on some chatter.
Sweet! We're already better. I hope Arroyo gets the majority of 2B PT. Long over due.
Two AAA BP guys. Justin Hagenman with a 2.78 ERA looks like a multiple innings guy/part time starter type with a WHIP of 1.07. The other one is Nick Robertson. Robertson has appeared in 6 MLB games and got raked hard twice with an ERA around 6.00. Up and down a couple of times. He averaged 13k per 9IP in AAA this year with an era of 2.54. Big drink of water at 6' 6". He's on the 40-man obviously, so likely will be with us as well.
We needed AAA near ready BP guys. Hopefully they work out.
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 04:51:17 PM
Two AAA BP guys. Justin Hagenman with a 2.78 ERA looks like a multiple innings guy/part time starter type with a WHIP of 1.07. The other one is Nick Robertson. Robertson has appeared in 6 MLB games and got raked hard twice with an ERA around 6.00. Up and down a couple of times. He averaged 13k per 9IP in AAA this year with an era of 2.54. Big drink of water at 6' 6". He's on the 40-man obviously, so likely will be with us as well.
We needed AAA near ready BP guys. Hopefully they work out.
These two Dodgers parallel our RP's Murphy and Walter. Really good at AAA (Okla City), but they can't do as well at MLB level. Of course the two Dodgers were not in their Top 50 prospects, unlike Murphy and Walter who are our Top 15. Robertson was exposed on Rule 5 last year, but nobody claimed him.
Bottom line, they're both more value than Ort and Garza.
Neither of them were top-30 ranked?
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 05:14:16 PM
Neither of them were top-30 ranked?
Not on the Top 50 list I saw today. It could well be bodies for a body. And it could be we eat some of Kike's $10 mil salary, and the Dodgers could have a bunch to cut loose around the Rule 5 this year, just like the Sox.
Just saw we sent $2.5 mil to LA to complete things.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 25, 2023, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 08:17:03 AM
Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.
The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.
Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
I'm with you on that one. :)
As of awhile ago there was a clubhouse meeting, attended by Arroyo-Reyes-Kike', and some others. The word is Kike' has been traded. I'm guessing LA, based on some chatter.
THE WORD? I'll believe it when I see it. By now everyone on this board knows how much Cora loves Kiki---for whatever reason and this time Bloom has to send him away.
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 10:35:43 PM
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?
It could be a little of both. Verdugo is in a nosedive. Slumping badly in July, he was 0-7 in the parts of two games played in with the Mets on Saturday. Trading Dugie could bring a reliable pitcher, but how do you man the RF slot? Although trading him would be a Tampa special going into his contract year in 2024 and selling high during his best overall year.
As far as Duvall, it would be foolish to trade him without some thinking. You have three LH hitting outfielders as starters with the Kike' trade. If you choose to oppose a lefty hurler with a RH bat, you now need Duvall and/or Refsnyder. Platooning with Duran/Duvall in CF is another option. But as most of us would say, let Duran run with CF, and don't keep moving him in and out.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 26, 2023, 06:46:44 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 10:35:43 PM
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?
It could be a little of both. Verdugo is in a nosedive. Slumping badly in July, he was 0-7 in the parts of two games played in with the Mets on Saturday. Trading Dugie could bring a reliable pitcher, but how do you man the RF slot? Although trading him would be a Tampa special going into his contract year in 2024 and selling high during his best overall year.
As far as Duvall, it would be foolish to trade him without some thinking. You have three LH hitting outfielders as starters with the Kike' trade. If you choose to oppose a lefty hurler with a RH bat, you now need Duvall and/or Refsnyder. Platooning with Duran/Duvall in CF is another option. But as most of us would say, let Duran run with CF, and don't keep moving him in and out.
A semi-Tampa move, perhaps? Seattle and St Louis had been talking controllable OF'er (Nootbar?) for starter Logan Gilbert , who has 4 more years of control and is a start-making sub 4.00 ERA pitcher. One less year of Duggie, I think, but he certainly qualifies.
This is where I bomb out on trade scenarios. I always over-value my guy and under-value theirs. Even when a trade works out for us. It's Crow Sandwiches 3 months later for me.
Mongo, I think there are multiple trades ahead for the Sox. Probably paving the way for the 2024 team. A big headache for Bloom, or whoever the Ops guy is, is the 40 man and who eventually gets dangled in the coming Rule 5 Draft. I saw a list yesterday of 70 of our prospects who will get caught in the numbers game, like Ward and Song last year.
The list includes some good ones like Wikleman, Drohan, Gambrel, Lugo, Bonaci, many more. The solution is to go ahead and trade some of the good pieces while they have value, especially where the prospects are blocked from getting to Boston anytime soon. Trading those pieces for a rental is insane, and like you say, go for team control with guys like a Bieber or a Zach Eflin and Lowe of the Rays.
https://www.soxprospects.com/rule5.htm
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 26, 2023, 06:46:44 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 10:35:43 PM
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?
It could be a little of both. Verdugo is in a nosedive. Slumping badly in July, he was 0-7 in the parts of two games played in with the Mets on Saturday. Trading Dugie could bring a reliable pitcher, but how do you man the RF slot? Although trading him would be a Tampa special going into his contract year in 2024 and selling high during his best overall year.
As far as Duvall, it would be foolish to trade him without some thinking. You have three LH hitting outfielders as starters with the Kike' trade. If you choose to oppose a lefty hurler with a RH bat, you now need Duvall and/or Refsnyder. Platooning with Duran/Duvall in CF is another option. But as most of us would say, let Duran run with CF, and don't keep moving him in and out.
Not sure what the deal is with Verdugo, I can’t imagine their sitting him so they can trade him, doesn’t make sense. Also Verdugo is a solid solution for RF and moving him just creates another hole when there are other needs to address.
Quote from: longgame on July 26, 2023, 08:06:41 AM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 26, 2023, 06:46:44 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 10:35:43 PM
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?
It could be a little of both. Verdugo is in a nosedive. Slumping badly in July, he was 0-7 in the parts of two games played in with the Mets on Saturday. Trading Dugie could bring a reliable pitcher, but how do you man the RF slot? Although trading him would be a Tampa special going into his contract year in 2024 and selling high during his best overall year.
As far as Duvall, it would be foolish to trade him without some thinking. You have three LH hitting outfielders as starters with the Kike' trade. If you choose to oppose a lefty hurler with a RH bat, you now need Duvall and/or Refsnyder. Platooning with Duran/Duvall in CF is another option. But as most of us would say, let Duran run with CF, and don't keep moving him in and out.
Not sure what the deal is with Verdugo, I can’t imagine their sitting him so they can trade him, doesn’t make sense. Also Verdugo is a solid solution for RF and moving him just creates another hole when there are other needs to address.
I've seen a narrative that Sox MGT may be looking ahead to 2025 with Mayer and company. Verdugo is in Boston for 2024, that is in his deal. They could be enamored with what OF Roman Anthony is doing in AA. He has become a good power hitter. Can he be ready for 2025 with Mayer, Raphaela and Yorke? But right now, we don't even know for sure who will be the manager or the Ops guy next year.
2025 has been obvious since the minute they brought Story in. The writing was on the wall.
It's no secret that I am indeed a Verdugo fan. He's going to make some bank. Maybe not Brandon Nimmo money at 7 years, $20M per year, but it will be sizeable. Verdugo's had a great year. The whiz kidiots are sure to come up with some three headed monster composite of a ball player like they tried last year with JBJ, Franchy and Arroyo.
We don't really have corner OF depth. The highest ranking corner in my mind is Rosier in AA, but he can be iffy with the arm, and I am being VERY, VERY kind. Can hit and is fast. Can catch the ball, too, from what I can tell.
Two minor league signings in the last day, one to our retread Frank German, who I think went through the ChiSox organization lately.
Also a utility player to Worcester. Eddie Alvarez, 33, had spent the season in Triple-A with the Brewers after signing an offseason minor league deal. The left-handed hitter put together a nice showing for their top affiliate, posting a .283/.397/.473 line over 257 plate appearances. He walked at an excellent 14% clip against an average 22.6% strikeout rate while playing each of second, third, shortstop and both corner outfield positions.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 26, 2023, 07:53:19 AM
Mongo, I think there are multiple trades ahead for the Sox. Probably paving the way for the 2024 team. A big headache for Bloom, or whoever the Ops guy is, is the 40 man and who eventually gets dangled in the coming Rule 5 Draft. I saw a list yesterday of 70 of our prospects who will get caught in the numbers game, like Ward and Song last year.
The list includes some good ones like Wikleman, Drohan, Gambrel, Lugo, Bonaci, many more. The solution is to go ahead and trade some of the good pieces while they have value, especially where the prospects are blocked from getting to Boston anytime soon. Trading those pieces for a rental is insane, and like you say, go for team control with guys like a Bieber or a Zach Eflin and Lowe of the Rays.
https://www.soxprospects.com/rule5.htm
Good points. It's gonna be a rough one. Not too many position players. Maybe a AAA guy who's blocked. Pitchers, though. that's where it's gonna be tough.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 26, 2023, 02:19:54 PM
Two minor league signings in the last day, one to our retread Frank German, who I think went through the ChiSox organization lately.
Also a utility player to Worcester. Eddie Alvarez, 33, had spent the season in Triple-A with the Brewers after signing an offseason minor league deal. The left-handed hitter put together a nice showing for their top affiliate, posting a .283/.397/.473 line over 257 plate appearances. He walked at an excellent 14% clip against an average 22.6% strikeout rate while playing each of second, third, shortstop and both corner outfield positions.
If someone could ever get the command issue thing solved with this German kid.... oy! Yeah, he got DFA'd by the White Sox. The reds snagged him and DFA'd him soon thereafter. I think he agreed to stay with the Reds after going unclaimed, but had since been released.
I had to look up Eddie Alvarez. He's had 3 stints in the Majors, each time hitting well below 200.
Alvarez got taken out after 2 plate appearances this afternoon their 2nd game (DH'er). No idea why.
We need an Eck "Yuk". Kluber's rehab outing - 2IP, 3R. 3H, 1BB, 1HR, 1K. So what's that, one more outing left before the deadline? I can't say I saw this coming. Of Bloom's Dumpster Diving (Geezer Division), I thought this one would work out.
I'm seeing more and more geezer-ville for Bloom. Rumblings that he shops Nick Yorke for Rich Hill, just for old times.
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 28, 2023, 07:31:03 PM
I'm seeing more and more geezer-ville for Bloom. Rumblings that he shops Nick Yorke for Rich Hill, just for old times.
Oh my!
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 28, 2023, 07:31:03 PM
I'm seeing more and more geezer-ville for Bloom. Rumblings that he shops Nick Yorke for Rich Hill, just for old times.
I think I'd personally drive up with my pitchfork to chase the bastard out of town!