GAME #12, TUESDAY, APRIL 9, 2019, BLUE JAYS @ BOSTON RED SOX

longgame · April 09, 2019, 09:25:34 PM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on April 09, 2019, 07:03:00 PM
A cold day for Sale and the pen. But there are long days ahead it seems. With the starters worth 3 to 4 innings at best, the BP are going to be rag arms by June. OK the starters get in shape and can throw up to 95 by May. But getting the BP in shape four weeks ahead of the starters ain't gonna work if the pen is already shot.

I guess they're counting on Poyner, Hernandez, Mejida, et al to come up for the ailing guys. Whatever, Cora should throw this year's ST plan in the trash heap.

That's for sure. They'll all be in great shape for golf in October.

elktonnick · April 09, 2019, 09:32:27 PM

Could not agree more. After the game Wakefield noted that Sale did not have the feel for his pitches yet. How does an athlete any athlete develop feel by repetition. A pitcher isn't going to develop feel over night. Moreover this club is still unfocused. Cora should be ashamed of himself because of the state of this club's readiness. It is all on him.

SeaBeachFred · April 09, 2019, 09:38:07 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on April 09, 2019, 09:32:27 PM
Could not agree more. After the game Wakefield noted that Sale did not have the feel for his pitches yet. How does an athlete any athlete develop feel by repetition. A pitcher isn't going to develop feel over night. Moreover this club is still unfocused. Cora should be ashamed of himself because of the state of this club's readiness. It is all on him.

How can a man go from a near genius manager to a near baboon in less than six months? Somehow Alex has done it. The team was not ready for the season and Cora has learned a very bitter lesson but because of his malfeasance about Spring Training and getting the team ready to compete, he has taken down the team and its fans with him.

longgame · April 10, 2019, 07:55:04 AM

He keeps saying that it was the same routine he used last year but we would have noticed it. What he did last year was rest guys early, and he had the schedule to work with. But I'm amazed at how unprepared these guys are. Plus, every play they made last year is a ball dropping in for a hit this year. But most importantly they are just lazy for lack of a better word. Between some of the errors and things like stealing home, they clearly aren't up to game speed and intensity.

Not sure what it will take to snap out of this and there's plenty of time to do so, but it's discouraging.

markj · April 10, 2019, 09:02:31 AM

There really isn't "plenty of time" if they don't start playing way better than .500 ball, which in itself would be a huge improvement over what they're doing now. There are 150 games left and they're 3 games under .500 and not showing any signs of improvement. If my math is correct, they'd need to play .750 ball over the next 12 games just to get to .500 (9-3). Unlike last season's team, these guys do not seem capable of ripping off 10+ wins in a row. That 17-2 start last year carried them to the record they ended up with. This 3-9 start may do the same thing, which is not good.

Bill-806 · April 10, 2019, 11:17:08 AM

As I used to say to ROB FROM MASS, The games you win in March, April & May, you won't have to win in September !! iono iono iono

BoSoxFanNY · April 10, 2019, 11:51:42 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on April 09, 2019, 09:38:07 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on April 09, 2019, 09:32:27 PM
Could not agree more. After the game Wakefield noted that Sale did not have the feel for his pitches yet. How does an athlete any athlete develop feel by repetition. A pitcher isn't going to develop feel over night. Moreover this club is still unfocused. Cora should be ashamed of himself because of the state of this club's readiness. It is all on him.

How can a man go from a near genius manager to a near baboon in less than six months? Somehow Alex has done it. The team was not ready for the season and Cora has learned a very bitter lesson but because of his malfeasance about Spring Training and getting the team ready to compete, he has taken down the team and its fans with him.

I AGREE!
I was at the Ring Ceremony and Banner display.
And yet, something was off.

It was almost as if the weather (cold 38 - 40 degrees, grey and misty) described
how this team has been playing thus far this season.

SO many opportunities to score.
TOO many singles allowed by Chris Sale.
TOO many passed balls by Vazquez.

This team seems to LOSE when they score first. EXCEPT the 1 - 0 win.
Sad.

elktonnick · April 10, 2019, 01:17:35 PM

I know this will cause some disagreement with my good friend, Fred but this team misses Leon's steady hand and head behind the plate.

BoSoxFanNY · April 10, 2019, 03:16:17 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on April 10, 2019, 01:17:35 PM
I know this will cause some disagreement with my good friend, Fred but this team misses Leon's steady hand and head behind the plate.

I agree.
AND why wasn't he at the Ring Ceremony yesterday??

SeaBeachFred · April 10, 2019, 08:42:11 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on April 10, 2019, 01:17:35 PM
I know this will cause some disagreement with my good friend, Fred but this team misses Leon's steady hand and head behind the plate.

Elk, my possible disagreement with you on this shouldn't worry or concern you at all. It is your opinion and I respect it. The problem from where I'm sitting is that Leon wouldn't be helping all that much and not because of his 170 type hitting. The problem is ALL five of our starters are getting hammered and battered about and that has more to do with the miserable program Cora ran in Spring Training. The pitchers never got the feel of pitching because they didn't pitch much at all in March. Al Leiter today on MLB insisted that starting pitchers should be pitching five and six innings by the end of ST and none of our pitchers to my knowledge pitched six innings and only Sale pitched five on one occasion. Hitters, as you well know, need to get their timing down before they can hit with any authority when it counts. Pitchers need to throw in competition and work on all their stuff for equal standing. None of this happened in Florida and Leon would not have been that big a help because he wouldn't have given us much hitting at all, and we know Bradley is off to another one of his slow starts. Hell, Bogey, Benny, Nunez and others haven't been hitting much either. Still, you never have to worry about be jumping you for your opinions. I know you know the gamed back and front. And we can disagree from time to time.

elktonnick · April 10, 2019, 09:10:33 PM

Fred what is noteworthy is one respected ex-player after another is making the same point without mentioning Cora by name, that is Sox pitchers still aren't ready because of the lack of work in Spring Training. The cold weather in Boston isn't likely to help since Cora squandered the warm weather games on the West Coast by not having his starters ready. Moreover, the implicit message to the rest of the team was that no one needed to exert too much effort getting up to speed.

As I posted after the opener two weeks ago, the Sox were going to limp back to Boston after their West Coast trip. It is now up to one of the players to play the role that Ortiz use to play and knock some sense into the rest of the club. I don't see Cora as capable of doing that after he tacitly let the team slack off for the past month. Cora to regain any credibility with me must admit that he screwed up during ST with his handling of the starters and hope this team has enough character to knock the cobwebs off and start playing focused baseball.

SeaBeachFred · April 10, 2019, 10:15:07 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on April 10, 2019, 09:10:33 PM
Fred what is noteworthy is one respected ex-player after another is making the same point without mentioning Cora by name, that is Sox pitchers still aren't ready because of the lack of work in Spring Training. The cold weather in Boston isn't likely to help since Cora squandered the warm weather games on the West Coast by not having his starters ready. Moreover, the implicit message to the rest of the team was that no one needed to exert too much effort getting up to speed.

As I posted after the opener two weeks ago, the Sox were going to limp back to Boston after their West Coast trip. It is now up to one of the players to play the role that Ortiz use to play and knock some sense into the rest of the club. I don't see Cora as capable of doing that after he tacitly let the team slack off for the past month. Cora to regain any credibility with me must admit that he screwed up during ST with his handling of the starters and hope this team has enough character to knock the cobwebs off and start playing focused baseball.

Well you called that limping back to Boston part but I'll bet you were grinding your teeth when you had to write that. You know, those of us who have coached baseball have an advantage of seeing some things that baseball fans in general might have passing their sights. What is startling, though, is that just about everyone on this board seems to concur that the team looked lazy, unfocused and out of sorts. One more thing....if Cora wants to keep his credibility with the press, media and fans, he can't sit there and insist that his Spring Training program this past March was pretty much what they did last March because we all know it wasn't even close. Facing up to his mistake would go a long way to restoring the trust and affection he earned in 2018.