Bosox Board

It has started to take place with players leaving, and the newcomers able to sign Sunday or Monday, one of those days.

Of note Justin Turner has opted out of his player option.  However their seems to be mutual interest that we could arrive at a new contract for him, albeit a 39 y.o. with some injuries to close out the year.
Also Sox did not pick up the option to retain Corey Kluber and they removed P Jaime Garza from the 40 man roster.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 04, 2023, 07:50:48 AM
It has started to take place with players leaving, and the newcomers able to sign Sunday or Monday, one of those days.

Of note Justin Turner has opted out of his player option.  However their seems to be mutual interest that we could arrive at a new contract for him, albeit a 39 y.o. with some injuries to close out the year.
Also Sox did not pick up the option to retain Corey Kluber and they removed P Jaime Garza from the 40 man roster.

We need RH hitting and lots of it.  Turner should be given some consideration for a new contract.  Bloom is his usually shitty job in his scouting department drafting one LH hitter after another.  Is there anything that butt did worth while?

I think there is a looming decision due soon on Joely Rodriguez. From what it reads in the baseball reference contracts list, the Sox have a $4M+ option on him. 

The Worcester transactions included 4 players chose free agency on Oct 2nd. Yu Chang, Kyle Barraclough, Caleb Hamilton and one of my favorites, Christian Arroyo. Boy did Arroyo ever fall out of favor or what?

The MLB site's transaction reporting is sketchy. Apparently Caleb Ort had gotten put on Waviers and was selected by Seattle on Oct 13th.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 05, 2023, 08:33:05 AM
I think there is a looming decision due soon on Joely RodrigBACK UP THE TRUCK!!!!!!!uez. From what it reads in the baseball reference contracts list, the Sox have a $4M+ option on him. 

The Worcester transactions included 4 players chose free agency on Oct 2nd. Yu Chang, Kyle Barraclough, Caleb Hamilton and one of my favorites, Christian Arroyo. Boy did Arroyo ever fall out of favor or what?

The MLB site's transaction reporting is sketchy. Apparently Caleb Ort had gotten put on Waviers and was selected by Seattle on Oct 13th.

Aside from Christian Arroyo who really never got a real shot from Cora and to boot could not stay in one piece, for the rest of that  pathetic group I quote former outstanding manager Leo Durocher.....to wit......  BACK UP THE TRUCK!!!!!

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 05, 2023, 03:46:25 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 05, 2023, 08:33:05 AM
I think there is a looming decision due soon on Joely RodrigBACK UP THE TRUCK!!!!!!!uez. From what it reads in the baseball reference contracts list, the Sox have a $4M+ option on him. 

The Worcester transactions included 4 players chose free agency on Oct 2nd. Yu Chang, Kyle Barraclough, Caleb Hamilton and one of my favorites, Christian Arroyo. Boy did Arroyo ever fall out of favor or what?

The MLB site's transaction reporting is sketchy. Apparently Caleb Ort had gotten put on Waviers and was selected by Seattle on Oct 13th.

Aside from Christian Arroyo who really never got a real shot from Cora and to boot could not stay in one piece, for the rest of that  pathetic group I quote former outstanding manager Leo Durocher.....to wit......  BACK UP THE TRUCK!!!!!

It looks like the Sox have moved on from Joely Rodriguez, they did not pick up his option or whatever his contract read.  Fred, I saw a post from Chris Costillo that Cora and the Sox did not think much of going after E-Rod last year, that "he took a lot of effort to inspire and get him ready for his starts."  Obviously, they will look more kindly to Marcus Stroman that E-Rod from the free agents.  It's going to be a tough slog to get some good pitching.

It might be tough as you say Sea Dog, but it has to be done and Henry must open his wallet to get it done.  We are not a small or mid market team and the Boston press might make certain Henry knows it, including the writers on the paper Henry owns.  They must stand to him and let him know in no uncertain terms that he is very much responsible for the decay of our team the past five seasons.  If they are risking their jobs,  there are a lot of good lawyers who would be more than willing to launch a major lawsuit of unlawful termination against the owner that could drive the cheap bastard out of town.  No, he has to spend and Breslow has to be able to convince some of the top free agents that Boston is no longer a hangout for dumpster divers and incompetent buffoons.

Fred, I suppose the differences between Bloom and Breslow will be known soon enough. The biggest broad stroke difference I'd like to see is not Free Agent spending, but a stop to the moves that make no sense from a big-league baseball standpoint. No more building rosters that look good only on an analytics front.

The second biggest thing I want to see is us keeping players who thrive here.

I do not want to see the Sox chase the flavor of the day. They can keep Ohtani on the West Coast for all I care. Too many eggs in one basket for an owner who does not like to spend for more than a year or two at a time. Speaking of Ohtani, if there's a poster child team for bad spending, it's the Angels. Wow, have they ever been burdened with some dud contracts. Far worse than us.

Our own Free Agent signing history has a lot of bad results, and they were easy to spot right away. We've had a lot of signings that made zero sense on the day they happened. This goes back at least to the Carl Crawford signing. Red flags are a thing for a reason. Please pay attention to them.

I know it was not Bloom who signed the Gold Bust Twins, but doesn't it seem to have Bloom written all over it?  This is where I hope Breslow excels. Keeping that sort of signing off the table for us. Stand up to the nonsense that he's inherited. Dombrowski did to some extent and won a WS, but he certainly had flaws of his own including the 2nd-biggest Red Sox mistake ever made - bringing Betts to Arbitration. (Babe Ruth was #1 mistake.)

As far as Breslow's pulling off a great off-season, his first big test is the GM meetings this week.  There was a knock on Bloom that he had little respect from the other GM's, and that remark could have been hatched by Kennedy or some Judas in our FO.

Breslow is a yougin with his resume, as scant as it is.  But there is some groundwork to be had this week.  We need at least two pitchers in the rotation.  One of those is thought to come by trade.  Verdugo and Houck could be  bargaining pieces to get one of the pitchers.  Here is hoping Craig gets off to a respectable start at the meetings.

While I don't want him to make just any move, I'd like to see Breslow actively pursuing people rather than wait around and see who is available for a bargain.  We'll know soon enough.  Moving to cut ties with underpeformers or the oft-injured is a good and necessary start.  I wouldn't chase after Turner either, as much as he did for us, he's too one-dimensional and we already have that guy starting at 3B.  I'd like to see a RH bat that can play some defense without worrying he'll break his leg barring getting a true stud as an every day DH. 

Lots of talk about Ohtani out there.  I think he's a money sink that will take up $50M per year on someone's roster. How do you sustain something close to a quarter of your payroll going to one guy, no matter how good he is?  Is he almost twice as good as say Mookie Betts? My guess is the Sox don't go after him.  Go after the Japanese pitcher (Yamamoto? I think) instead.

There are so many needs and that will be the biggest challenge for Breslow.  Who gets brought up, who ends up getting blocked, who is a peak value as a minor leaguer that doesn't project to a stud at the MLB level?  He needs to get to the bottom of that and fast.  I just hope he has a plan versus the totally reactive Bloom.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 05, 2023, 04:14:28 PM
..........Fred, I saw a post from Chris Costillo that Cora and the Sox did not think much of going after E-Rod last year, that "he took a lot of effort to inspire and get him ready for his starts." .....

This has me shaking my head. There is little doubt in my mind that E-Rod was one of those types of guys that, to steal a movie line, felt a little too much inside.

So what? Manage the issue and quit whining. That's your job. Don't like it, go back to bench coaching. 

While I admit E-Rod can be moody and pose a challenge for a manager but not an insurmountable one, Cora is not the guy for the job.  For one thing E-Rod is Venezuelan.  Cora does not handle non-Caribbean Latin ballplayers well.

I may be reading too much into this but one of the things I read yesterday was the Red Sox were “targeting” Whit Merrifield.  First of all, he’d be a huge upgrade at 2B, but more importantly, he is being “targeted”.  Again, I may be reading too much into this but had Bloom every targeted someone?

Quote from: longgame on November 08, 2023, 07:41:41 AM
I may be reading too much into this but one of the things I read yesterday was the Red Sox were “targeting” Whit Merrifield.  First of all, he’d be a huge upgrade at 2B, but more importantly, he is being “targeted”.  Again, I may be reading too much into this but had Bloom every targeted someone?

Yes but only guys who had long stints on the IL.

Refsnyder? Yu Chang? Franchy Cordero?

Merrifield would be fantastic. A real ball player. We got one(Duval) last season for CF. Too bad he broke his wrist, but it was a good signing, especially if we ignore the slight out of position part. Whit's at the perfect stage of career for what we need, hits, runs, etc.

I cannot help but think that maybe a building year for the OF is in order. Dominoes CAN fall in order for 2025 and beyond with a Whit signing. Screw Rafaela's versatility. Leave in in CF next season, bite the bullet on some mistakes and watch him grow. Signing Whit to play 2B next year on a 2-year deal is as logical as going after a Short Stop last January would have been. It makes Rafaela available as a full-time CF'er. Even if Yorke/Meidroth/Bonaci takes 2B for 2025, you get Whit as a primary RHB that can play almost every day filling in at 3-4 positions and DH. Perfect for an aging veteran. This is a win win unless be busts in beantown. Been known to happen. 

I THINK Story has an option after this year. If not, he's a stud defender. I think it's law somewhere that every contender can have one swing and miss guy. I'm fine with Story being that guy. Him and Whit up the middle gives me warm fuzzies on so many levels.

An interesting dynamic to the "new Sox" under Breslow, will be how they approach players with a QO.  The Sox did not hand out any QO's this year.  Under Bloom-Sox there seemed to be a taboo of going after QO guys, for the sake of giving up one of your draft picks.  Will Breslow look beyond that mindset this year?  There is some reasoning that he might go after Bellinger, who he knew with the Cubs.  Nola would be a statement that we are going after prime time pitching.  Here is a list of those QO's that came out this week.

Shohei Ohtani
Aaron Nola
Blake Snell
Cody Bellinger
Josh Hader
Matt Chapman
Sonny Gray

As Breslow begins his custodian of the Sox transactions this year, the record shows the Sox at this time have a current payroll (with the Devers deal incl) of $199mil.  It appears that the first threshhold in the CBT tax level is $237 mil prox.

On the FA front, I saw on a Twins site, Talkin Twins some predictions on the top FA's

Ohtani - Mets
Yamomota - Mets
Bellinger - NYY
Nola - Cardinals
Snell - Giants
E-Rod - Dodgers
Sonny Gray - Braves
Julio Urias - Cubs
Montgomery - Rangers
Kershaw - Dodgers
Jack Flaherty - Padres
Giolito - Twins
Josh Hader - Phillies
Shota Imanaga - NYY
Yuki Matsui - Cardinals
Hoskins - Mariners
Chapman - Dodgers
Hernandez - Tigers
Garver - Marlins Candalaria - NYY
JD Martinez - Mariners
Maeta - Dodgers
Guriel Jr. - Marlins

Two starting pitchers eats most of that $37M up. We do have a couple avenues to save a bit of payroll. Trade Verdugo and non-tender Urias and there's $11M (last year's money). As far as I know, The Sox (at least Breslow) have only answered the payroll threshold question with the canned, "we're dedicated to winning" mantra. FWIW, Werner repeated his promise from last season to be competitive, so who knows.   

E-Rod vetoed a trade to the Dodgers last trade deadline, citing family reasons. I'm sure Miami's chocked full of pitching, which is probably his favored destination. Not sure if he's built for the Mets/Sox/Yankees/Phillies microscopes. I've been guessing Cardinals.

I can see the Yanks going long and hard after Bellinger.

Other than all that, I can see a few teams not doing much of anything until they know they are out of the Ohtani market. I hope that resolved soon, because those big names not signing can really screw up a Hot Stove season's pace.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 09, 2023, 07:57:29 AM
Two starting pitchers eats most of that $37M up. We do have a couple avenues to save a bit of payroll. Trade Verdugo and non-tender Urias and there's $11M (last year's money). As far as I know, The Sox (at least Breslow) have only answered the payroll threshold question with the canned, "we're dedicated to winning" mantra. FWIW, Werner repeated his promise from last season to be competitive, so who knows.   

E-Rod vetoed a trade to the Dodgers last trade deadline, citing family reasons. I'm sure Miami's chocked full of pitching, which is probably his favored destination. Not sure if he's built for the Mets/Sox/Yankees/Phillies microscopes. I've been guessing Cardinals.

I can see the Yanks going long and hard after Bellinger.

Other than all that, I can see a few teams not doing much of anything until they know they are out of the Ohtani market. I hope that resolved soon, because those big names not signing can really screw up a Hot Stove season's pace.

If Bloom was still in office, I could see him going heavy after Rhys Hoskins (ala Mondesi coming off an ACL).  I see the Yanks may have offered pitcher Clark Schmidt for Verdugo (at deadline or this week?) and there's some chatter that Verdugo and one of our BP may be the asking price to get Gleyber Torres to Boston for a 2B.  Personally I don't think we should emphasize 2B with our trade pieces.  There is more pressing needs for a RH power bat in the OF, pitching and catcher.  It will be tantalizing to see how much rope they give Breslow.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 09, 2023, 08:43:05 AM
If Bloom was still in office, I could see him going heavy after Rhys Hoskins (ala Mondesi coming off an ACL).  I see the Yanks may have offered pitcher Clark Schmidt for Verdugo (at deadline or this week?) and there's some chatter that Verdugo and one of our BP may be the asking price to get Gleyber Torres to Boston for a 2B.  Personally I don't think we should emphasize 2B with our trade pieces.  There is more pressing needs for a RH power bat in the OF, pitching and catcher.  It will be tantalizing to see how much rope they give Breslow.

Holy Smokes, the thought of running Gleyber Torres on defense for us is horrifying.

I agree on not diving too deep into 2B with trade pieces unless we're talking stud and 3+ years of control left. It'd cost too much, though. I'm still in favor of signing Whit.

I see catching as a lower priority need than SP, 2B and RH power bat. Breslow gave the vote of confidence, perhaps obligatory, to the incumbent catching brigade. I like what's coming up the pike for us with Keel. If they can improve Scott and/or Hickey's defense, that'd be even better. Wong is RH, though, and you'd HOPE he improved going into his second year on the job. We can do far worse than Wong behind the plate and batting 9th for a year.

A decent trade match might be Duran for a RH Power LF'er where that team is trying to add big time speed to the equation. Duran becomes a better OF'er away from Fenway, too. I don't know which team that might be, but it happens.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 09, 2023, 09:15:12 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 09, 2023, 08:43:05 AM
If Bloom was still in office, I could see him going heavy after Rhys Hoskins (ala Mondesi coming off an ACL).  I see the Yanks may have offered pitcher Clark Schmidt for Verdugo (at deadline or this week?) and there's some chatter that Verdugo and one of our BP may be the asking price to get Gleyber Torres to Boston for a 2B.  Personally I don't think we should emphasize 2B with our trade pieces.  There is more pressing needs for a RH power bat in the OF, pitching and catcher.  It will be tantalizing to see how much rope they give Breslow.

Holy Smokes, the thought of running Gleyber Torres on defense for us is horrifying.

I agree on not diving too deep into 2B with trade pieces unless we're talking stud and 3+ years of control left. It'd cost too much, though. I'm still in favor of signing Whit.

I see catching as a lower priority need than SP, 2B and RH power bat. Breslow gave the vote of confidence, perhaps obligatory, to the incumbent catching brigade. I like what's coming up the pike for us with Keel. If they can improve Scott and/or Hickey's defense, that'd be even better. Wong is RH, though, and you'd HOPE he improved going into his second year on the job. We can do far worse than Wong behind the plate and batting 9th for a year.

A decent trade match might be Duran for a RH Power LF'er where that team is trying to add big time speed to the equation. Duran becomes a better OF'er away from Fenway, too. I don't know which team that might be, but it happens.

Not to mention that Verdugo would become a Sox killer.  He's just the kind of guy that seems to need motivation to rise to his best level and he'd all over beating the Sox.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 09, 2023, 09:15:12 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 09, 2023, 08:43:05 AM
If Bloom was still in office, I could see him going heavy after Rhys Hoskins (ala Mondesi coming off an ACL).  I see the Yanks may have offered pitcher Clark Schmidt for Verdugo (at deadline or this week?) and there's some chatter that Verdugo and one of our BP may be the asking price to get Gleyber Torres to Boston for a 2B.  Personally I don't think we should emphasize 2B with our trade pieces.  There is more pressing needs for a RH power bat in the OF, pitching and catcher.  It will be tantalizing to see how much rope they give Breslow.

Holy Smokes, the thought of running Gleyber Torres on defense for us is horrifying.

I agree on not diving too deep into 2B with trade pieces unless we're talking stud and 3+ years of control left. It'd cost too much, though. I'm still in favor of signing Whit.

I see catching as a lower priority need than SP, 2B and RH power bat. Breslow gave the vote of confidence, perhaps obligatory, to the incumbent catching brigade. I like what's coming up the pike for us with Keel. If they can improve Scott and/or Hickey's defense, that'd be even better. Wong is RH, though, and you'd HOPE he improved going into his second year on the job. We can do far worse than Wong behind the plate and batting 9th for a year.

A decent trade match might be Duran for a RH Power LF'er where that team is trying to add big time speed to the equation. Duran becomes a better OF'er away from Fenway, too. I don't know which team that might be, but it happens.

This is a pretty low bar, but looking at Outs above Average (OAA), Torres is an upgrade over some of our 2B last year .  He was -3 OAA in 1200 innings at 2B. Valdez had -4 in  350 innings (equates to -14 in 1200 innings). Reyes was -2 in 200 innings (-12 at 1200 innings). Urias was -5 in 400 innings (-15 at 1200 innings).  OAA on Whit Merrifield was +4 at 2B and -4 as OF in 2023.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 09, 2023, 09:15:12 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 09, 2023, 08:43:05 AM
If Bloom was still in office, I could see him going heavy after Rhys Hoskins (ala Mondesi coming off an ACL).  I see the Yanks may have offered pitcher Clark Schmidt for Verdugo (at deadline or this week?) and there's some chatter that Verdugo and one of our BP may be the asking price to get Gleyber Torres to Boston for a 2B.  Personally I don't think we should emphasize 2B with our trade pieces.  There is more pressing needs for a RH power bat in the OF, pitching and catcher.  It will be tantalizing to see how much rope they give Breslow.

Holy Smokes, the thought of running Gleyber Torres on defense for us is horrifying.

I agree on not diving too deep into 2B with trade pieces unless we're talking stud and 3+ years of control left. It'd cost too much, though. I'm still in favor of signing Whit.

I see catching as a lower priority need than SP, 2B and RH power bat. Breslow gave the vote of confidence, perhaps obligatory, to the incumbent catching brigade. I like what's coming up the pike for us with Keel. If they can improve Scott and/or Hickey's defense, that'd be even better. Wong is RH, though, and you'd HOPE he improved going into his second year on the job. We can do far worse than Wong behind the plate and batting 9th for a year.

A decent trade match might be Duran for a RH Power LF'er where that team is trying to add big time speed to the equation. Duran becomes a better OF'er away from Fenway, too. I don't know which team that might be, but it happens.

I've always been a big fan of Whit Merrifield for his ability to hit for average, gap power, and defensive prowess.  He is also versatile enough to shift to other spots if need be.  He runs well and is a very strong competitor.  For that reason we probably won't get him since he is not a dumpster diver.  Sorry for the sarcasm but right now I have little confidence in our front office and leadership at the top.  We need to give Craig Breslow the opportunity to be able to go out and sign some free agents and make some trades to give us a chance to finally get out of the gutter for the next decade.  Merrifield would be a good start and Hoskins would be another RH hitter we could put in to our lineup giving us two good hitters, one with good power, to balance with our abundance of left handed bats.  I know it's very early but we should be working to change our team into winners at the get go and so far I haven't heard a damn thing from those jokers in the front office.  Let's see if this coming off season we can be proactive instead of reactive near the dumpsters.

It looks like the Phils also inquired about Verdugo in a trade for RHand OF Castelanos.  Castelanos had an incredible Aug-Sept and really helped Philly get into the playoffs.  However his bat went stone cold in the NLCS.  He is a marginal OF.  There are probably some other players on the Phils that we would prefer more like Stott or Bohm .  Bohm, a righty, played 1B most of the year after Hoskins went down.  Bohm will be available  a trade since Harper said this week he wanted to be the full-time 1B.

Verdugo is as good as gone.  Cora clearly does not want him around.

Besides dealing with the Yanks, there are some rumblings with Milwaukee.  At the meetings in Scottsdale their GM supposedly said all their players are expendable.  Some of the good fits are SS Willy Adames, RH pitcher Corbin Burnes and RF Christian Yelish (in a salary dump).  Adames had an off year in 23 hitting .217, OPS .717, but 24 HR.  He has a .247 career avg.

Righty Corbin Burnes had a 3.39 era in 23, 1.06 WHIP.  6-3, 245, 29 yo. Arb eligible, becomes a FA in 2025.   Two years ago was the NL Cy Young winner.

Breslow said it's fair to assume they have spoken to or will speak to any agent who represents a free-agent SP and any team that would consider trading a SP.  He also said getting the right pieces in place on the roster is more important than stockpiling position depth in the minors.  (Seems to differ from what Bloom's plan was last year, Cora also didn't care for depth.)

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 10, 2023, 08:16:15 AM
Besides dealing with the Yanks, there are some rumblings with Milwaukee.  At the meetings in Scottsdale their GM supposedly said all their players are expendable.  Some of the good fits are SS Willy Adames, RH pitcher Corbin Burnes and RF Christian Yelish (in a salary dump).  Adames had an off year in 23 hitting .217, OPS .717, but 24 HR.  He has a .247 career avg.

Righty Corbin Burnes had a 3.39 era in 23, 1.06 WHIP.  6-3, 245, 29 yo. Arb eligible, becomes a FA in 2025.   Two years ago was the NL Cy Young winner.

Breslow said it's fair to assume they have spoken to or will speak to any agent who represents a free-agent SP and any team that would consider trading a SP.  He also said getting the right pieces in place on the roster is more important than stockpiling position depth in the minors.  (Seems to differ from what Bloom's plan was last year, Cora also didn't care for depth.)

Got to love that last part about getting the roster right as a priority.  Can you imagine a company having a terrible year and saying “hey, we need more inexperienced new hires to turn this around?”  We’ve all be saying he same the past few years - identify your weaknesses and go out and address it.

Quote from: longgame on November 11, 2023, 06:54:30 AM
Got to love that last part about getting the roster right as a priority.  Can you imagine a company having a terrible year and saying “hey, we need more inexperienced new hires to turn this around?”  ....

This might be my new favorite analogy regarding roster building during the Bloom era.

Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best? 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 11, 2023, 07:07:47 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Who did they get? I can't find news or transaction anywhere.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 11, 2023, 07:07:47 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Fred, I'm not sure Breslow would know a decent OF from a turnip out in the garden.  After all his job in Chicago was looking at pitchers the whole time.  Hopefully Romero or Raquele can fill him in on how to look at stats on all those also rans in the field.  The word out of the GM meetings seems to focus on Yamomoto.  He probably sets the market for all those really good FA pitchers.  When he moves, the money will start setting up for the others.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 12, 2023, 07:02:14 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 11, 2023, 07:07:47 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Who did they get? I can't find news or transaction anywhere.

Mongo it's Mark Contreras.  SI called him a "slutter".  WTH? 

Per the Baseball America transactions, the Red Sox signed OF Mark Contreras to a minor league deal. (Minnesota) 9th-rd pick from UC Riverside in 2017. Most of the last 3 years in AAA. Limited MLB experience in 2022. .274/.352/.418 in 2023. Plays all 3 OF positions."

In the grand scheme of things, while more offense would be nice the issu⁷e with the Red Sox is pitching. The did not draft, develop or sign solid durable pitchers. Virtually every aspect of the Red Sox baseball operation relating to pitchers suck.  He may have been a lousy manager but John Farrell was a solid pitching coach and Boston has not had one since he left.
Breslow was hired to fix pitching. He has a big job.  It may be an impossible job given how deeply ingrained Boston's rotten approach towards pitching is.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 12, 2023, 07:07:13 AM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 12, 2023, 07:02:14 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 11, 2023, 07:07:47 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Who did they get? I can't find news or transaction anywhere.

Mongo it's Mark Contreras.  SI called him a "slutter".  WTH? 

Per the Baseball America transactions, the Red Sox signed OF Mark Contreras to a minor league deal. (Minnesota) 9th-rd pick from UC Riverside in 2017. Most of the last 3 years in AAA. Limited MLB experience in 2022. .274/.352/.418 in 2023. Plays all 3 OF positions."

Thanks for the info on the transaction. I wonder if "slutter" is a typo for "slugger"?

Regardless, it's just a Minor League deal. Does not affect the 40-man roster all Winter long like some of Breslow's predecessor's idiotic moves did last season. We need OF depth in Worcester. We have zero near MLB-ready Outfielders that are not already on the 40-man roster. This signing does fill a need and doesn't cost us anything except one spot on the 38-man AAA roster for Tuesday's deadline. 

Right now, Worcester is sporting only 2 OF'ers. Tyler McDonough and Corey Rozier. They have a combined 16 game AAA career. Rosier can run and hits for a decent BA, but I think I recall his defense as not being particularly good. Obviously needs some AAA AB's.

IIRC, Dalbec played a ton of RF 2nd half of the season for Worcester. He does have an arm and he is not a slow man, especially for a giant. Our depth OF'ers last season were mainly Bradley Zimmer and Greg Allen. Both were here on 1-year Minor League deals. I think Allen opted out and landed with the Yankees again. 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 12, 2023, 07:02:14 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 11, 2023, 07:07:47 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Who did they get? I can't find news or transaction anywhere.

It came off of some Red Sox blogger who post messages on the Internet.  I got so irritated reading that missive that I forgot to remember the guy's name.  He was a Latin ballplayer who once had power potential but went sideways in the Minnesota organization and was outrighted to the minors.  Just the kind of mediocrity we've been saddled with for the most of the past decade.  If I run into it again Mongo I will let you know who and where.

It will be November 13th tomorrow and is might be the right time for the Red Sox to concentrate on zeroing in on free agent talent available in the pi tching department and hitters who can play good infield defense.  We simply have to be in the forefront ofd the teams looking to  upgrade because we have enough upgrading to do.  We can always add minor leaguers to fill rosters later in the off season.  Right priority number one is breathing some like on the Red Sox.  There is plenty of work to do and the money must be put up for free agent acquisitions and setting up our plan for trades for pi tching; perhaps though a solid attempt to sign that great young Japanese pi tcher so many scouts and managers have been raving about.  Time to get down to serious work Breslow.  Most Red Sox fans are sick and tired of the shit shows the team has put up the past four or five seasons.

Fred, I totally understand the frustration. Dumpster Diving has been a primary weapon for the 'Sox for far too long. I'm really hoping for pitcher signings and 2B signings myself.

Unfortunately, it is a huge week for teams and their entire roster construction activities. Qualified Offers, Non-Tenders and rule-5 protection all happens this week. The first two have big impacts on the free agent market. QO and Rule-5 protection deadlines are by end of Tuesday and then I think it's Friday for non-tenders.

Non-tenders could inspire the occasional trade, but is often of the dumpster diving variety. At least when it came time for us to acquire fringe talent. Lots of DFA deals too, but I've not seen much of them yet.

Mongo, on the Rule 5, I saw this projection on Soxprospects.  Usually good folloup, they do their homework.

Protected:
Perales
Drohan
Wikelman
??Fernandez ??

Out in the cold:
Bastardo
Bell
Bonaci
Castro
Cepeda
Gambrell
Hagenman
Liu
Lugo
Koss
Paulino
Penrod
Politi
Scott
Song
Zeferjahn

Ryan Fernandez? Seems like a stretch. Must be some inside scoop that some other team is seeing at something nobody else sees, including AAA hitters.

I'm surprised that Gambrell is not on the list and will be later this afternoon when they actually release their list. I suspect we'll see him by year's end in Boston if he clears Rule-5. He's the first SP to get promoted from AA to AAA and actually pitch well instead of tanking. His strike count could have been better. This was his first season back from a big medical issue with his heal that had him sidelined 1-1/2 seasons.

Song is another one despite where he is and how three of his ramp-up-to-starter outings were horrible. I think he only got up to two 5-inning outings before his final start where he didn't make it out of the first inning.

Bonaci was the one position player of concern, albeit small. He landed on the bad-guy list for domestic violence of some sort. If all that is sorted out, he might be one to watch on the rise next season.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 12, 2023, 07:02:37 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 11, 2023, 07:07:47 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 11, 2023, 08:14:11 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 11, 2023, 08:09:08 AM
Breslow  also said he does not plan to trade Verdugo this off season.  If true  that blows my theory that Verugo is as good as gone because he is always in Cora's  doghouse.

Is Breslow marking his turf and telling Cora⁸ who is the boss with this remark about not planning to trade Verdugo?

He could simply be posturing for bargaining leverage amongst his fellow GM types. Maybe an indication that he's had some bargain hunter interest at best?

Well he didn't win himself any accolades with his first personel move.  He signed a former Twins reject, a left handed hitter to boot like we are short of them, and if this isn't a case of dumpster diving then let's just say it is a trip to the backyard garbage can.  Breslow????? Get your ass in gear and stop trying to act like Bloom.  Already this guy has gotten my goat.  We need some good free agents and make some good trades and not more of the same.  If this is what you were hired for you already have a strike against you.  We do NOT need any rejects from o ther teams.  You didn't win a fan with me with that stupid move.

Fred, I'm not sure Breslow would know a decent OF from a turnip out in the garden.  After all his job in Chicago was looking at pitchers the whole time.  Hopefully Romero or Raquele can fill him in on how to look at stats on all those also rans in the field.  The word out of the GM meetings seems to focus on Yamomoto.  He probably sets the market for all those really good FA pitchers.  When he moves, the money will start setting up for the others.

Well I hope Breslow is cuts above the ability of Bloom but so far we haven't seen much to be impressed with.  I really thought this  time around the Red Sox would be right in the thick of things setting up trades needed and getting their money ready to challenge for the prime pitchers out there.  So far a lot of hooey and not much else.  Hopefully Sea Dog, we will get right in the fight at the Winter Meetings starting next week or thereabouts.  We all know we have a lot of work to do, but I wonder if John Henry and Co. are awake from their nearly five year siesta.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 14, 2023, 06:58:17 AM
Ryan Fernandez? Seems like a stretch. Must be some inside scoop that some other team is seeing at something nobody else sees, including AAA hitters.

I'm surprised that Gambrell is not on the list and will be later this afternoon when they actually release their list. I suspect we'll see him by year's end in Boston if he clears Rule-5. He's the first SP to get promoted from AA to AAA and actually pitch well instead of tanking. His strike count could have been better. This was his first season back from a big medical issue with his heal that had him sidelined 1-1/2 seasons.

Song is another one despite where he is and how three of his ramp-up-to-starter outings were horrible. I think he only got up to two 5-inning outings before his final start where he didn't make it out of the first inning.

Bonaci was the one position player of concern, albeit small. He landed on the bad-guy list for domestic violence of some sort. If all that is sorted out, he might be one to watch on the rise next season.

It looks like Breslow has been burning the midnight oil since he's been on the job,  not quite three weeks.  He has cleared space on the 40 man roster, and today added pitching prospects #7 Luis Perales and#8 Wikelman Gonzales to the 40 man.   That will protect two of the arms that he obviously sees some upside for.  Perales was at high-A and Wikelman was at AA last year.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 14, 2023, 05:20:14 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 14, 2023, 06:58:17 AM
Ryan Fernandez? Seems like a stretch. Must be some inside scoop that some other team is seeing at something nobody else sees, including AAA hitters.

I'm surprised that Gambrell is not on the list and will be later this afternoon when they actually release their list. I suspect we'll see him by year's end in Boston if he clears Rule-5. He's the first SP to get promoted from AA to AAA and actually pitch well instead of tanking. His strike count could have been better. This was his first season back from a big medical issue with his heal that had him sidelined 1-1/2 seasons.

Song is another one despite where he is and how three of his ramp-up-to-starter outings were horrible. I think he only got up to two 5-inning outings before his final start where he didn't make it out of the first inning.

Bonaci was the one position player of concern, albeit small. He landed on the bad-guy list for domestic violence of some sort. If all that is sorted out, he might be one to watch on the rise next season.

It looks like Breslow has been burning the midnight oil since he's been on the job,  not quite three weeks.  He has cleared space on the 40 man roster, and today added pitching prospects #7 Luis Perales and#8 Wikelman Gonzales to the 40 man.   That will protect two of the arms that he obviously sees some upside for.  Perales was at high-A and Wikelman was at AA last year.

Perales was on everyone's short list to protect, but it doesn't seem to me like a MLB ready candidate like Gambrell. I hope Gambrel survives.

Not protecting Drohan is a strategy one might have advised last season instead of protecting Murphy and Walter. Both were massively bad after going from AA to AAA in 2022. Then there's the Song situation.

Oh Well, We'll know in a few weeks. Non-tender deadline up next on Friday. 

One more player claimed off of Waivers by another team that the Red Sox had somehow put on Waviers without appearing on any transaction list. Logan Gillespie was claimed by the Padres yesterday. We got him in Septermber after Baltimore DFA'd him, but he never got called up to Boston. Caleb Ort(Seattle claimed) and Justin Garza(FA) had similar fates a few weeks back.

There are 38 names on the 40-man Roster. Still a chance we could see a minor trade and/or a non-tender this week. Nobody is signing anyone right now, but that could change once the dust settles from the Non-Tender deadline tomorrow.

Sox trade for pitcher with a live arm.  Another one of those what if deals.  I have no problem with this as they need depth too.  Big moves still won't happen for a little while yet.

https://nesn.com/2023/11/red-sox-kickstart-offseason-with-low-risk-high-reward-signing/ (https://nesn.com/2023/11/red-sox-kickstart-offseason-with-low-risk-high-reward-signing/)

The Sox signed a Minor League FA. He's not a cast-off. He elected Minor League Free Agency. A stipulation that (per CBA/MILB agreement) allows Minor League players who have played a minimum number of years to allow them freedom to move on if they so choose. Designed to allow a blocked player to seek a better situation before it's too late, hopefully.

Jorge Benitez, 24 years old relief pitcher who pitched 2.14 ERA, 40 games and 59 innings. His big problem according to the stats is BB, sitting at 5.9(!!!) per 9IP with a 11.3 K/9IP and a 1.339 WHIP. Don't know for sure, but 'dems look like power pitcher numbers to me. If Breslow and company and fix him, great. If not, it cost nothing to try 'cept maybe a spot on the 38-man AAA Minor League roster to be protected in the Rule-5 draft.   

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 30, 2023, 10:46:02 AM
The Sox signed a Minor League FA. He's not a cast-off. He elected Minor League Free Agency. A stipulation that (per CBA/MILB agreement) allows Minor League players who have played a minimum number of years to allow them freedom to move on if they so choose. Designed to allow a blocked player to seek a better situation before it's too late, hopefully.

Jorge Benitez, 24 years old relief pitcher who pitched 2.14 ERA, 40 games and 59 innings. His big problem according to the stats is BB, sitting at 5.9(!!!) per 9IP with a 11.3 K/9IP and a 1.339 WHIP. Don't know for sure, but 'dems look like power pitcher numbers to me. If Breslow and company and fix him, great. If not, it cost nothing to try 'cept maybe a spot on the 38-man AAA Minor League roster to be protected in the Rule-5 draft.

Mr. Benitez may have come to the right place.  THe doctors of curing your ills , Breslow and Bailey, are here to help. haha.

Ken Rosenthal gave some interesting projections on team spending.  He thinks NYY will be controlled this year and mindful of their payroll,  the Rangers will limit themselves, and the Padres have payroll issues and become only active in the trade market over dealing with FA's.  Who knows, the scribes have probably exhaused all their permutations and combinations before December.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 01, 2023, 12:43:32 AM
Ken Rosenthal gave some interesting projections on team spending.  He thinks NYY will be controlled this year and mindful of their payroll,  the Rangers will limit themselves, and the Padres have payroll issues and become only active in the trade market over dealing with FA's.  Who knows, the scribes have probably exhaused all their permutations and combinations before December.

Have the Yankees gone nuts since Hal and Hank assumed the team ownership after George stepped back and eventually passed away? They've made some big signings, but have they done the whole team payroll thing of being $50M - $75M over threshold thing recently? Seems like the Yanks and Sox have both cooled their jets in the past 10-15 years. Sort of becoming old.

Rosenthal had an interesting article on the Ohtani brand value. What he means outside the lines. Several big teams out there with lots going on around the ballpark and beyond. The Sox with their other owned teams. The Cubs, Giants, Mets, Toronto, 'Sox and Blue Jays all being mentioned as being at various phases of building out the area surrounding their stadiums to include other entertainment and/or destination type attractions. That doesn't even touch the teams' international benefits with merch and all. His point being is that the return on investment will come back to the team that signs him in non-baseball manner beyond what we've seen before. This is the ultimate Scott Boras model sans Scott Boras.

Rosenthal did offer up one one thought inspiring statistic. The Angels drew an average of just 163 more fans out to the park on the days Ohtani pitched. Makes sense, of course, as you'll get to see him almost every day instead of once a week. Plus the big team ace day is becoming quaint. That pitcher throwing an 8-inning gem scenario seems to be a romance of days gone by. 

The Braves have a whole entertainment district around their ballpark. Funny thing is they started it I believe when they were owned by Liberty Media who owns Formula One among other properties. But they make their bones on the field.  Clearly thought Ohtani leverages a lot of merchandise sales and promotional opportunities across an owners assets.

A potential trade partner? They've supposedly got the young pitching we desire and we have low cost alternatives to two of their now vacant positions.

The Mariners and Braves had a 5-player swap that cleared room in their OF. Makes me wonder if they might end up being a trade candidate for the Red Sox extra OF'er. Speculation on MLB-dot-com is more about the bigger names, though.

Seattle has also made room at 3B by trading Eugenio Suarez last month. That inspires thoughts of a potential Matt Chapman landing spot. A much less expensive alternative is Bobby Dalbec. Dalbec would actually be a better 3B AND offensive player than Suarez. Suarez K'd 214 times in 598 AB's while hitting .214 with 22HR's and 96 RBI. 36% K-rate.

So the trade partner is the Yanks? WTH.  Verdugo for P Greg Weissert, several BP appearances in NY this year, and Richard Fitts, a AA pitcher, plus one other arm who was just drafted in '23. No Gleyber.  Word that Fitts  could rank as NYY #11 prospect.  We must be thinking Abreu is the answer in RF.  Crazy stuff.
 
So you give up a lefty OF and go for a righty?  Morosi says we're talking to Lourdes Guriel.  Can he defend?  He was at 0.6 dwar last year, after some weak years.  He has hit .320/.356/.456  when hitting at Fenway.  I don't see a reunion with Duvall or Turner if we're looking at right bats.  Some interest in Garver (Rangers) as a righty bat.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 05, 2023, 09:18:45 PM
So the trade partner is the Yanks? WTH.  Verdugo for P Greg Weissert, several BP appearances in NY this year, and Richard Fitts, a AA pitcher, plus one other arm who was just drafted in '23. No Gleyber.  Word that Fitts  could rank as NYY #11 prospect.  We must be thinking Abreu is the answer in RF.  Crazy stuff.
 
So you give up a lefty OF and go for a righty?  Morosi says we're talking to Lourdes Guriel.  Can he defend?  He was at 0.6 dwar last year, after some weak years.  He has hit .320/.356/.456  when hitting at Fenway.  I don't see a reunion with Duvall or Turner if we're looking at right bats.  Some interest in Garver (Rangers) as a righty bat.

This might work out for us. We were not going to get a whole lot for one year control of Verdugo. Especially after Cora's public issues with him. Watch for a big year from Verdugo as he's in a park where his turning on a grooved pitch will reward him more often.

I despised the notion of Gleyber Torres playing defense for us. I'd have given him a DH spot no probs, though. He would have just been a one year guy. 

I absolutely love the idea of Abreu in RF. Got some speed, has an arm and has the ability to make adjustments in his approach as needed throughout his 5 years in the Minors. Makes CF wide open once Rafaela is open for business. In the mean time, let's hope Duran's improvement continues. (Edit:I hear Gurriell is a more than capable OF'er. If so, I'd be for that signing if it happens.)

The relief pitcher has an option left. I doubt he was the real prize. He'll be on the 40-man roster. His two MLB stints suggests he's not currently a bust so far, but not great, either. 28 years old.

Fitts was their #11 prospect and now our #10. Mid-90's cheese and a good slider. The MLB Scouting report says both pitches have potential of being "plus pitches". Not a huge K-rate, but throws strikes. Looking at his stats suggests he figured something out in A-ball and has been sub 4.00 ERA since while climbing to a complete AA season. 2 years before we have to protect him. You'd think he was on track to start next season in AAA. TBD. 

The 3rd guy didn't even pitch for the Yanks system after being drafted last year. No idea why yet.

Moving Verdugo also freed up a lot of cash to help sign other guys.

Ohtani - 10 years, $700M. Holy Smokes! A lot of deferred money, which is a smart move on at least two counts. Still, that's just an un-fathomable number to chew on. Yakamoto will be affected from this.

The Fallout next year for the Juan Soto Circus, V3. Free agent for his age 26 season. He's going to blow by Judge's $360M.

It goes to show, that somewhere, somehow, some team is going to bust the bank for the best of the best. Well, maybe the most desirable. Right now, that might be Yakamoto. His contract might end up being north of $300M after some were guessing up to around $200M.

So I ask, before we learn of Yakamoto's intent - What is your limit on Yakamoto if you were the 'Sox brass?

Interesting numbers I saw - Henry bought the Sox 20 years ago or so for $660M, less than what the Dodgers are paying for 10 years of Ohtani.

Yamamoto is still unproven in MLB.  Maybe the Mets will pay him more than someone like Cole.

Nobody offered up a number for Yakamoto. I think he is going to get something along the line of 8 years, $275M. Just a guess based on watching the media offer up estimates and watching the biggest targets blow past those numbers by 20% or more. Happened just last week with Ohtani.

The decision on what to offer cannot be hedged. The Red Sox will not be successful thinking of a can't suggest $175M for 7 years as being reasonable when there will be a team that will not use size and no MLB experience against him. The offer has to be made with what you think you will get out of him. Risk of injury due to size or his  lack of MLB experience determines IF you offer him a contract. That's the market. Roll the bones or don't. The bet is the same. 

So two scenarios to consider for transitioning Japanese Pro League pitchers.

The bad scenario.
What they can do is look at Dice-K, who was 26 when he made is 'Sox debut. He had just come off his best two seasons when he was posted. Bombed with a 4.40 ERA, which was not a massively bad number as it is these days. Came back with a 2.90 ERA before it went to hell for the last 4 seasons in Boston. Scary stuff. Cost the 'Sox $120M including posting, IIRC. 

The Good Scenario.
Masahiro Tanuka. The Yankees snagged him up at about the same age as Yakamoto. 7 years, $155M in 2014. He was a big boy at 6-3" compared to Yakamoto's 5-10". Even then, his last three seasons got a little fringy with the arm and he ended up in the mid 4's ERA twice. The 4 seasons in Japan before signing with the Yankees were like Yakamoto. A few years sub 2.00 ERAs with a K/9IP just shy of Yakamoto.

In either case, it looks like the ERA will likely take a hit if we can identify a trend with this. Note that Tanaka was 1-1/2 runs higher than it was in Japan. When he went back, his ERA dropped 1/2 a run or so. Senga's ERA wnt up a run from the previous season, but far less of a drop from the few previous years. 

I'm playing with house money sitting back with two dogs and a cat on an easy chair, so my opinion is worthless. BUT, if you're gonna offer some jerk $225M over 7 years who is already on the decline and you know is going to bring a crappy, ring-leader attitude with him, then why not pony up for the chance of 5 good prime years, averaging 7-1/2 innings a start? If his ERA doubles what it was in Japan for the past few years, he still finishes in the Cy Young discussion. This is a risk I like. Much better than banking on a guy to all of a sudden not have injuries like he did in 80% of his previous seasons. (Yankees last season.)

So 8 years, $275M? 10 years, $300M? 7 years, $250M? Some combination thereof? Something along there is where it will end up and I'm in. I might be calling my doctor for some stress meds, but I'm in.

That's kind of what I've been saying for years Mongo.  The Sox have acted as if they make the market the past few years and as a result is seen by the market as cheap.  They keep going after guys with way under-sized bids and people stopped listening to them and will stop until they show up with a wheelbarrow of money.  I've said it a bunch of times right here - identify a target and go out and get them.  If they want Yamamoto, you're right, that's probably the starting point even right now.  Give him an offer.  At the same time, like I've also said, are they sending flowers every morning to Mrs. Montgomery?  Are they wining and dining them with Cora, Bailey, Pedro, Varitek and others?  Has he been to Bruins and Celtics games with other players? (keep him away from the Pats!).  I've heard a few pundits say the Sox work quietly, but I think that's because they don't do anything worth talking about, at least in a positive way.

I understand. The Free Agents problems are older than that, though. Even when we could got good players in the pre-Bloom era, the bigger ones we've chased down and landed seemed to fall into some sort of combination of screwy fitment, attitude issues or prone to injury.

We've gotten some good filler players here and there. We've even gotten really lucky a time or two including Dave Ortiz. There have been so many seasons, though, that were lost because of that "one need" that wasn't filled. It's repeated it self over and over again. It's almost always foreseeable and it's always maddening.

Maybe FSG lost their nerve after the Gold Bust Twins, David Price or maybe even earlier with Adrian Gonzalez and getting used by Teixeira to drive up the price for the Yankees and all of that "class" of theirs. 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 12, 2023, 08:55:14 AM
I understand. The Free Agents problems are older than that, though. Even when we could got good players in the pre-Bloom era, the bigger ones we've chased down and landed seemed to fall into some sort of combination of screwy fitment, attitude issues or prone to injury.

We've gotten some good filler players here and there. We've even gotten really lucky a time or two including Dave Ortiz. There have been so many seasons, though, that were lost because of that "one need" that wasn't filled. It's repeated it self over and over again. It's almost always foreseeable and it's always maddening.

Maybe FSG lost their nerve after the Gold Bust Twins, David Price or maybe even earlier with Adrian Gonzalez and getting used by Teixeira to drive up the price for the Yankees and all of that "class" of theirs.

It's aggravating that the Red Sox still haven't done a damn thing to improve their team and we are almost in the middle of December.  What the hell are they waiting for, for Prune Face to stop counting his money and see what spare change he has for subpar talent?  For Pete's sake front office get off your dumb asses and start filling our team with some credible ballplayers instead of those minor league has-beens you've been signing so far.

We got this guy, though. Minor league signee & Spring Training invite. Kind of hidden and buried amongst 1/2 dozen or so other ST invites and a couple kid/amateur signings. Almost like they didn't want anyone to notice.  thumb_u 
https://www.mlb.com/player/jamie-westbrook-642197?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2023 (https://www.mlb.com/player/jamie-westbrook-642197?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2023)

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 12, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
We got this guy, though. Minor league signee & Spring Training invite. Kind of hidden and buried amongst 1/2 dozen or so other ST invites and a couple kid/amateur signings. Almost like they didn't want anyone to notice.  thumb_u 
https://www.mlb.com/player/jamie-westbrook-642197?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2023 (https://www.mlb.com/player/jamie-westbrook-642197?stats=career-r-hitting-minors&year=2023)

28 years old and yet to crack the bigs, but a good season last year.  Seems a typical Sox pickup.

They did lose a depth MI with Fitzgerald being selected in the AAA Phase of the Rule 5 draft. Not that they were ever going to use him. He got screwed over. I hope the crow embarrasses the 'Sox brass.

Back to Starting Pitching
The MLB site said yesterday that Yakamoto is due to visit the Red Sox in the next few days. He's already visited with the Mets, Yankees and Giants. The same article suggested the Blue Jays as being in the short list, too.

The Royals are supposedly close to signing Lugo out of San Diego. 3 years, $45M. It's impossible to imagine which direction the Red Sox took. The writers all say the Sox were interested. If so, they A: Balked at the 3 year commitment, B: Are being really cheap with a veil of BS akin to last season, C: Are making headway for what they think are better options in the moderately priced category, D: holding all their cards for the big prizes or E: considering blockbusters on rentals.

Sox pick up Cooper Chriswell, 27 year old reliever with Rays who pitched in 12 games in 2 years.  The dumpster diving continues.

Quote from: longgame on December 13, 2023, 06:55:17 AM
Sox pick up Cooper Chriswell, 27 year old reliever with Rays who pitched in 12 games in 2 years.  The dumpster diving continues.

oh geeez!!!! That's a MLB deal 40-man spot deal. This really is a dumpster dive by every definition. Crap!!!!

"Come meet the new boss! Same as the old boss!" - The Who

You wonder who they're going to miss out on and what reclamation project they're going to sign every day.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 13, 2023, 06:45:52 AM
They did lose a depth MI with Fitzgerald being selected in the AAA Phase of the Rule 5 draft. Not that they were ever going to use him. He got screwed over. I hope the crow embarrasses the 'Sox brass.

Back to Starting Pitching
The MLB site said yesterday that Yakamoto is due to visit the Red Sox in the next few days. He's already visited with the Mets, Yankees and Giants. The same article suggested the Blue Jays as being in the short list, too.

The Royals are supposedly close to signing Lugo out of San Diego. 3 years, $45M. It's impossible to imagine which direction the Red Sox took. The writers all say the Sox were interested. If so, they A: Balked at the 3 year commitment, B: Are being really cheap with a veil of BS akin to last season, C: Are making headway for what they think are better options in the moderately priced category, D: holding all their cards for the big prizes or E: considering blockbusters on rentals.

I'll take option B until I see this front office more than a bunch of incompetent buffoons who don't know shit from Shinola where talent lies and be willing to ante up the cash for it.  Certainly Prune Face is AWOL and his underlings are about as worthless as a swimmer trying to glide his way across a lake in a suit of armor.  Absolutely disgusting.

Quote from: longgame on December 13, 2023, 06:55:17 AM
Sox pick up Cooper Chriswell, 27 year old reliever with Rays who pitched in 12 games in 2 years.  The dumpster diving continues.

Hey Mongo, look at what Ted just wrote and you have your answer.  Dumpster diving at its best with empty suit Breslow quickly turning into a human pumpkin.

All is quiet on the Yakamoto and Imanaga fronts, but the former is supposed to meet with the sox within the next few days. Speier downplayed the possibility of signing him Thursday while the MLB Red Sox site is talking it up.

Meanwhile, another FA pitcher fell off the board with Wacha getting a 1 year deal with the Royals for $16M with a 2nd year $16M player option. Good for KC. Their second deal in the past couple of weeks.

A player we were never going to get was Tyler Glasnow, whom the Dodgers acquired for a decent Pitching prospect who's already had some good MLB time and a good looking OF'er who made his debut last season. The Dodgers took on Margot's contract as well. They did this on the condition that Glasnow sign and extension and it looks like it's final. Looks like 5 years, $135M extension for someone who has not made more than 21 starts since he floated between Pittsburgh and AAA in 2017. Good work if you can get it.

Clock's a tickin'!

If the Sox really want Yakamoto then Henry must meet with him in person.  Steve Cohen went to Japan and then had Yakamoto over to his house.  It will take personal intervention by Henry to out do Cohen.  Like the old saying goes," Never speak to the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." 
If the Sox lose out on Yakamoto, it is all Henry's fault, not Breslow. I think this is a test of ownership's real commitment.  No more bull  on how much they care.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 18, 2023, 09:53:45 AM
If the Sox really want Yakamoto then Henry must meet with him in person.  Steve Cohen went to Japan and then had Yakamoto over to his house.  It will take personal intervention by Henry to out do Cohen.  Like the old saying goes," Never speak to the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." 
If the Sox lose out on Yakamoto, it is all Henry's fault, not Breslow. I think this is a test of ownership's real commitment.  No more bull  on how much they care.

But deep down Elk you know that Henry is trying to throw a load of poop at us and, unfortunately the pink hats and boot lickers are about to follow the pied piper into the drink.  Besides, by now, most everyone following the Red Sox knows Prune Face has horse dung people skills and most likely would make a negative impression on Yamamoto anyway.  Still it would be good for him to try, and in the meantime have Breslow start earning his money by going out and signing two pitchers in case we once again fail to connect with some real talent in Yamamoto.

This is an awful mess that FSG and Bloom left for Breslow to clean up.

Breslow's playing a dangerous game right now. I'm not saying he's up to the task, but he's got one helluva sell job in front of him that will require a player to have trust in a situation that has proven to only be untrustworthy for a long time. 

Nice blog post from this guy, sums things up nicely.  https://diehardbostonsportsfans.com/boston-red-sox-still-doing-it-wrong/ (https://diehardbostonsportsfans.com/boston-red-sox-still-doing-it-wrong/)

It seems like they're putting all their eggs in one basket and if they fall short on Yamamoto they're screwed.  Part of me says in the old days we'd get a newspaper article about the Winter Meetings and maybe an update now and then and therefore maybe we overreact to the lack of Sox news.  But the game now is all out bidding for anyone who has a WAR over -2 and the money is more out of control than ever. If the Sox want to play, then they need to pony up.  If not, sell the team.

Meanwhile, every time I read about a new sports venture, the latest being a pro indoor golf league, FSG is right up there as an investor.  Invest in the properties you have.  Why are the Sox the least important of his properties? 

Quote from: longgame on December 19, 2023, 11:21:21 AM
Nice blog post from this guy, sums things up nicely.  https://diehardbostonsportsfans.com/boston-red-sox-still-doing-it-wrong/ (https://diehardbostonsportsfans.com/boston-red-sox-still-doing-it-wrong/)

It seems like they're putting all their eggs in one basket and if they fall short on Yamamoto they're screwed.  Part of me says in the old days we'd get a newspaper article about the Winter Meetings and maybe an update now and then and therefore maybe we overreact to the lack of Sox news.  But the game now is all out bidding for anyone who has a WAR over -2 and the money is more out of control than ever. If the Sox want to play, then they need to pony up.  If not, sell the team.

Meanwhile, every time I read about a new sports venture, the latest being a pro indoor golf league, FSG is right up there as an investor.  Invest in the properties you have.  Why are the Sox the least important of his properties?

It makes no sense Ted except to say that the Red Soxare no longer of any importance to John Henry, other wise he would not stand for six last place finishes in the past 12 seasons.

And Ysmamoto joins Ohtani and Glasnow in LA. Anyone think the dodgers are setting themselves up for an even more impressive 2-3 year run? Yikes. I can't imagine that situation looking anything but appetizing for Yamamoto. Part of a super team, I mean.

Well, here's to hoping the 'Sox show patience and keep their youth for another year at the expense of giving Montgomery and/or Imanaga bigger contracts than they want to dole out.

Yeah, and it was some extra sand in my undies last night when the FSG owned Pittsburgh Penguins skated circles around the 'Canes last night with the help of some awful officiating (again). At least we got an OT point.

Rumor has it that while Yamamoto signaled he wanted in the $300MM range, the Sox offered around $250MM and a host of incentives.  No word on years.  That is your typical Red Sox lowball.  I wonder if agents even open their offers at this point.

Someone reported that the Red Sox were amongst the teams at $300M offer, but no word of details and if there were incentives involved or not. Henry's fortunes were amassed in the hedge fund world, and incentives are a hedge bet, so who knows?

What I THINK happened is this. Two weeks ago or so, Alex Speier got on MLB Network and started downplaying the Red Sox' chances without saying as much. His main thoughts were towards Montgomery, Snell and one or two others that have since signed. This would put it in the time frame what $250M plus incentives would have probably been where everyone else was at that point. I don't think it got north of $300 until this past weekend, which is where the Red Sox likely laid low and snuck out of the room.

At least this time we don't see their puppets stating how "shocked" Kennedy and the head of Baseball Ops were.

The Sox never had a chance to sign Yamamoto and they knew it.  It was never about the money.  The Yankees offered more than the Dodgers and the Mets as much.

Yamamoto wanted to play for and established contender and with Otahani.   Neither the Yankees, Mets nor Red Sox met these conditions.

All the reports that the Sox were in contention were BS.  They only served to stir up false hopes and piss off Sox fans when they turned out to be bogus.

Meanwhile, the MLB site shows the 'Sox having big interest in James Paxton. Not as bad move unless he's the big starting pitching signing.

I'm really hoping Montgomery signs with us. Looks like he's been durable, too. Had the one stretch of 2018-2019 where he missed a bunch, but has been solid since. He's not a power pitcher, which might not match up well with the 'Sox defense unless we have a big turn around. He nearly always frustrated us when we faced him.

Snell wants to stay on the West Coast.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 24, 2023, 07:54:15 AM
Meanwhile, the MLB site shows the 'Sox having big interest in James Paxton. Not as bad move unless he's the big starting pitching signing.

I'm really hoping Montgomery signs with us. Looks like he's been durable, too. Had the one stretch of 2018-2019 where he missed a bunch, but has been solid since. He's not a power pitcher, which might not match up well with the 'Sox defense unless we have a big turn around. He nearly always frustrated us when we faced him.

Snell wants to stay on the W⁹est Coast.

I refuse to believe any media reports that the Red Sox are interested in or are about to sign this player or that.  The Red Sox PR dept is a worse liar than any politician
  The only thing they are good at is raising expectations

I

Quote from: elktonnick on December 24, 2023, 11:38:55 AM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 24, 2023, 07:54:15 AM
Meanwhile, the MLB site shows the 'Sox having big interest in James Paxton. Not as bad move unless he's the big starting pitching signing.

I'm really hoping Montgomery signs with us. Looks like he's been durable, too. Had the one stretch of 2018-2019 where he missed a bunch, but has been solid since. He's not a power pitcher, which might not match up well with the 'Sox defense unless we have a big turn around. He nearly always frustrated us when we faced him.

Snell wants to stay on the W⁹est Coast.

I refuse to believe any media reports that the Red Sox are interested in or are about to sign this player or that.  The Red Sox PR dept is a worse liar than any politician
  The only thing they are good at is raising expectations

I

History is one your side, I'm afraid. The other part of their pattern is going for the wrong guy when they do splurge.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 12, 2023, 11:57:56 AM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 12, 2023, 08:55:14 AM
I understand. The Free Agents problems are older than that, though. Even when we could got good players in the pre-Bloom era, the bigger ones we've chased down and landed seemed to fall into some sort of combination of screwy fitment, attitude issues or prone to injury.

We've gotten some good filler players here and there. We've even gotten really lucky a time or two including Dave Ortiz. There have been so many seasons, though, that were lost because of that "one need" that wasn't filled. It's repeated it self over and over again. It's almost always foreseeable and it's always maddening.

Maybe FSG lost their nerve after the Gold Bust Twins, David Price or maybe even earlier with Adrian Gonzalez and getting used by Teixeira to drive up the price for the Yankees and all of that "class" of theirs.

It's aggravating that the Red Sox still haven't done a damn thing to improve their team and we are almost in the middle of December.  What the hell are they waiting for, for Prune Face to stop counting his money and see what spare change he has for subpar talent?  For Pete's sake front office get off your dumb asses and start filling our team with some credible ballplayers instead of those minor league has-beens you've been signing so far.

There is a stage of business, where the owner brings in a guy from out of nowhere to make changes in order to close the company, or prepare for selling it.  This new guy is called The Turk.  It's my belief that The Turk is actutally Breslow.    sigh

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 25, 2023, 08:40:46 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 12, 2023, 11:57:56 AM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 12, 2023, 08:55:14 AM
I understand. The Free Agents problems are older than that, though. Even when we could got good players in the pre-Bloom era, the bigger ones we've chased down and landed seemed to fall into some sort of combination of screwy fitment, attitude issues or prone to injury.

We've gotten some good filler players here and there. We've even gotten really lucky a time or two including Dave Ortiz. There have been so many seasons, though, that were lost because of that "one need" that wasn't filled. It's repeated it self over and over again. It's almost always foreseeable and it's always maddening.

Maybe FSG lost their nerve after the Gold Bust Twins, David Price or maybe even earlier with Adrian Gonzalez and getting used by Teixeira to drive up the price for the Yankees and all of that "class" of theirs.

It's aggravating that the Red Sox still haven't done a damn thing to improve their team and we are almost in the middle of December.  What the hell are they waiting for, for Prune Face to stop counting his money and see what spare change he has for subpar talent?  For Pete's sake front office get off your dumb asses and start filling our team with some credible ballplayers instead of those minor league has-beens you've been signing so far.

There is a stage of business, where the owner brings in a guy from out of nowhere to make changes in order to close the company, or prepare for selling it.  This new guy is called The Turk.  It's my belief that The Turk is actutally Breslow.    sigh

Reminds me of “Major League”.

Day after Christmas and the Red Sox hangover continues.  I don't need to tell any of you guys, but on the heels of the past few seasons, hiring a new GM or whatever job title, and saying they were all in or whatever it was they said, I just am more down on this team than ever.  The lack of any serious action is concerning.  We've talked about this a hundred times before.  You identify who you want and you go out and get them.  You don't give half-assed offers and hope everyone else is dumber than you.  Not only does it mean you don't get that guy, it also sends a message to every agent out there that the Sox won't play ball. 

We've all talked about the needs for starting pitching.  The FA market has been clear all offseason - Yamamoto, Snell, Nola, Montgomery.  Of those the best fit is probably Montgomery.  They should be all over this guy. But they don't want to admit that now they have to overspend because they've screwed things up so badly.  They need a 2B because they don't have a great SS and need to shore up the middle infield.  Plus we know that a good 2B will allow Story to range more to his right and limit where Devers has to range.  And they need a guy who can hit.  They don't have a major league outfield.  Catcher should be upgraded too.

This isn't getting fixed by reclamation projects, old guys and 2nd stringers.  It's infuriating.

Just had to get that off my chest.  Thanks,.

Boston media is starting to question John Henry's commitment to the Red Sox in a way that they have never done in the past.  Unless Henry turns it around this could be one of the ugliest years the Red Sox have had in 30 years.

I think the damage is already done.  Which one of the free-agents really want to play for the Red Sox?  The city is not respected as a viable contender after five years.  Yamamoto did not even want a dinner invitation to dine with the Sox, while some teams got two.  Any chance the Sox get any interest from Montgomery or Snell, they would have to grossly outbid the others, then Boras would shop their bid with the Yankees, Dodgers.  Young Breslow is going to have to pull a rabbit out of his a## to recover from the mess.

The only thing I've seen this week that seems to resemble a plan is Lukas Giolito.  He had a great year three years ago, but has fallen down heavily.  The Sox interest is a reclamation project with the pitching doctors Breslow and Bailey doing their diagnostic best to get him through five innings.  Another idea they are exploring is selling their better relief pitchers, like Jansen and Martin to get multiple minor league pitchers, under team control, very similar to how they liquidated Verdugo. 

Other than that, they seem to be in another reset year.  Obviously they are doing nothing to improve the 2024 Sox, now letting four key 2023 Sox walk or get traded, and only one plug-in (O'neil) who has never been able to play 95 games in a season and a lefty bull pen arm, who may be a prize this year.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 26, 2023, 01:17:36 PM
Boston media is starting to question John Henry's commitment to the Red Sox in a way that they have never done in the past.  Unless Henry turns it around this could be one of the ugliest years the Red Sox have had in 30 years.

I do wonder what and when their exit strategy is. I mean, why buy the Penguins at this stage?

I'm not saying JH and TW had a lifetime get out of being cheapskates card because of the first 2-3 WS titles, but it was close to it. I think that's about over in my book. Then again, my book don't matter. I just hope to hell that they don't cash in on the farm yet. Some of these guys are about all we have to look forward to at this point. I just hope FSG change their tune when it comes time to fill in the blanks when we're ready.

Not to mention their investment in TGL, the virtual golf league which will start next year. Also, they are pretty much in bed with all of Lebron James's Marketing operations which are significant, not to mention soccer and hockey.  They just seem to be telegraphing that they don't care about the Sox and somehow the marketing department hasn't sorted that out yet, not to mention the operation side.

Some advice,
- don't say you're going full throttle and do nothing
- figure out someone you can get, be realistic about the market and go get them.
- money talks, BS walks, and no more so than right now
- coordinate your messaging overall, it won't help on the field, but don't blow smoke up our behinds
- if there is any sort of plan, share it with your fans, right now it seems to be hold pat until we can promote all of our prospects.


They need to do something or I'll just follow the Braves this year.

Quote from: longgame on December 27, 2023, 11:29:32 AM
Not to mention their investment in TGL, the virtual golf league which will start next year. Also, they are pretty much in bed with all of Lebron James's Marketing operations which are significant, not to mention soccer and hockey.  They just seem to be telegraphing that they don't care about the Sox and somehow the marketing department hasn't sorted that out yet, not to mention the operation side.

Some advice,
- don't say you're going full throttle and do nothing
- figure out someone you can get, be realistic about the market and go get them.
- money talks, BS walks, and no more so than right now
- coordinate your messaging overall, it won't help on the field, but don't blow smoke up our behinds
- if there is any sort of plan, share it with your fans, right now it seems to be hold pat until we can promote all of our prospects.


They need to do something or I'll just follow the Braves this year.

PLEASE TED, DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!!!!!!  At least you have your second team to follow in 2024, one that has a real shot of going deep in the post-season ............if they can learn to beat the Phillies.  I have only the Cubs who fortunately are in a weak division and could surprise as long as some team in the NLC doesn't suddenly make some major moves and put  the Cubbies back in the middle of the pack.  As I said in an earlier post elsewhere even a cynic like me still didn't believe that the team would be doing nothing heading into the New Year.

My fall-back team this year will be the Cardinals.  Lived out there for several years and loved the fan base they have.  And their owners know baseball and know that the fans need baseball players to cheer on.

The only news this week, sadly, is Boston chasing Teoscar Hern.  A .253 avg with a Green Monster comfortable swing.  The 31% K rate is a disaster.  He and his agent will demand 3 years, but Breslow only wants him for one year, maybe two.  Looks like Angels will get him for 3 years.  It's all about the 2024 market, and our owners do not understand this years' market.  I think  they end up giving Duvall a 1-year deal to return to CF and end up trading Duran.  One step forward -  two steps backward for Boston this year.

;

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 28, 2023, 08:39:01 AM
My fall-back team this year will be the Cardinals.  Lived out there for several years and loved the fan base they have.  And their owners know baseball and know that the fans need baseball players to cheer on.

The only news this week, sadly, is Boston chasing Teoscar Hern.  A .253 avg with a Green Monster comfortable swing.  The 31% K rate is a disaster.  He and his agent will demand 3 years, but Breslow only wants him for one year, maybe two.  Looks like Angels will get him for 3 years.  It's all about the 2024 market, and our owners do not understand this years' market.  I think  they end up giving Duvall a 1-year deal to return to CF and end up trading Duran.  One step forward -  two steps backward for Boston this year.

;

I have not had a fallback team in any sport for a long, long time. Braves back in the 90's before I could get out of market baseball teams as easily as now. Mets for a few years when I lived in Upstate NY. I'll reserve that card for at least the first couple months and it will probably be the Braves. I like their approach. Well, approaches.

Not getting Hernandez is a good thing in my book.

My fallback has always been the Braves.  My first major league game was watching the Boston Braves play the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1952.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 28, 2023, 11:00:41 AM
My fallback has always been the Braves.  My first major league game was watching the Boston Braves play the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1952.

I had no idea the Boston Braves had some of the same guys who won the title in Milwaukee --  Matthews, Logan, others.  Interesting.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 28, 2023, 08:39:01 AM
My fall-back team this year will be the Cardinals.  Lived out there for several years and loved the fan base they have.  And their owners know baseball and know that the fans need baseball players to cheer on.

The only news this week, sadly, is Boston chasing Teoscar Hern.  A .253 avg with a Green Monster comfortable swing.  The 31% K rate is a disaster.  He and his agent will demand 3 years, but Breslow only wants him for one year, maybe two.  Looks like Angels will get him for 3 years.  It's all about the 2024 market, and our owners do not understand this years' market.  I think  they end up giving Duvall a 1-year deal to return to CF and end up trading Duran.  One step forward -  two steps backward for Boston this year.

;

Teoscar is a strikeout machine who seems to be on the downside of his career----just the type the Red Sox seem to embrance because it doesn't cost them too much money.  We signed a left fielder and have others who can play our there like Duran who must be given a full and complete shot at becoming a standout for us---which i think he will be, especially if he improves on his hitting against lefties which should come with experience.  Rafaella must be given a solid look as well if he is as good as the front office is claiming he is, though we also know some of the front office yokels aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.  Pitching and good pitching is needed and do it by spending money and not trading away our top prospects.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 28, 2023, 11:00:41 AM
My fallback has always been the Braves.  My first major league game was watching the Boston Braves play the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1952.

And if you were a Boston Braves fan in 1952 Elk you know they opened their season with a three game series with the Brooklyn Dodgers......First game, 3-2 Dodgers, Roe over Spahn.  I'll let you research to find how the other two games game out, but if you can't find it I will tell you even though you might not like the news.  Eddie Mathews was a rookie that year and hit 25 homers but Joe Black got Rookie of the Year that season.  See what a blowhard your friend SBF can be.  All in fun my friend......and kudos to your better half.  Tell her to try and keep the faith.

Fred,, July 6 1952 Braves Field Braves lost.  7200 fans saw Spahn lose.  I and the baseball team my father managed were there.  The next year the Braves moved out of Boston



.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 28, 2023, 08:03:07 PM
Fred,, July 6 1952 Braves Field Braves lost.  7200 fans saw Spahn lose.  I and the baseball team my father managed were there.  The next year the Braves moved out of Boston



.

Sorry they lost that game Elk.  Who did they play?  BTW, you probably know that for that entire 1952 season they drew only 282,000 people.  Hard to believe that just four short seasons before they won the NL and got to the World Series.  Was Boston that much a Red Sox town even then?  I ask that because the Sox finish a dismal sixth that year.  Here's one for you.  Are you aware that when Spring Training began om March 1, 1953 they went to Brandenton as the Boston Braves and didn't become the Milwaukee ones until about March 18?  I think owner Lew Perini, a Bostonian, still had hopes that the team might still make it in the Hub.

Fred the Braves story in Boston is an interesting.one
  Just a few years before they left the Braves drew more than a million fans.  ( John Henry take note)
Lou Perini who was then a Boston based contractor and who my uncle knew personally did not get permission to move the team from National leagues owners until mid March of 53. Back then,
Braves field was actually considered a better venue to watch baseball than Fenway park.  Interestingly the largest crowd ever to see a sporting event in Boston was the BC Holy Cross football game in 1923 at Braves Field with a crowd of 54000.  BC Holy Croos baseball games would outdraw the Red Sox and Braves games back then as well.

The game I saw in 1952 was against the Dodgers.  We sat in the right field stands which by the way still exist being part of Boston University',s Nickerson Field.

bah! Our big FA splash is Giolito, and it includes an opt out after 2024. 2 years, $38M for a rebound hopeful.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 29, 2023, 05:20:03 PM
bah! Our big FA splash is Giolito, and it includes an opt out after 2024. 2 years, $38M for a rebound hopeful.

Well it is another "hoping he bounces back" signing.  One has got to wonder if Boston will ever be able to convince any one to come to Boston without an opt out.  I swear if Filene's basement were still in business the Sox would buy everything there.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 29, 2023, 04:23:31 PM
Fred the Braves story in Boston is an interesting.one
  Just a few years before they left the Braves drew more than a million fans.  ( John Henry take note)
Lou Perini who was then a Boston based contractor and who my uncle knew personally did not get permission to move the team from National leagues owners until mid March of 53. Back then,
Braves field was actually considered a better venue to watch baseball than Fenway park.  Interestingly the largest crowd ever to see a sporting event in Boston was the BC Holy Cross football game in 1923 at Braves Field with a crowd of 54000.  BC Holy Croos baseball games would outdraw the Red Sox and Braves games back then as well.

The game I saw in 1952 was against the Dodgers.  We sat in the right field stands which by the way still exist being part of Boston University',s Nickerson Field.

Good to get up to date on the events leading to the Braves re-location to Milwaukee.  Apparently from what you said Perini actually wanted to go to Florida as the Milwaukee Braves but the NL owners to commit to the first wholesale move of a franchise to another city.  BTW, The Braves led the league in attendance that season by well over a million customers.  Probably watching the goings-on was on Walter O'Malley, owner of the then Brooklyn Dodgers who could see a successful Braves team make enough money to pay higher bonuses to top prospects and put the Dodgers in a hole.   Five years late O'Malley said adios to Brooklyn.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 29, 2023, 05:20:03 PM
bah! Our big FA splash is Giolito, and it includes an opt out after 2024. 2 years, $38M for a rebound hopeful.

This is what I was afraid of--- getting another pitcher on the downside of his career.  Better than Kluber, yet Giolito got the shit knocked out of him last season and has been on a downgrade since his solid 2019 season.  The start of another pitching shit show on the ready for 2024 unless the guy has a remarkable comeback.  The God damn Prune Face just refuses to really open his wallet, the cheap bastard.

There seems to be a time line on Giolito. His best pitches seemed to taper off about the same time they started checking for "sticky fingers".  His fastball lost some movement.   I'll trust Breslow to find his upside -- until I don't.

It seems to be a screwed up FA market.  First the Japanese stars went on a tour, being wined and dined around the country, forever.  Now the FA market for pitchers is being controlled by Boras and his clients Snell and Montgomery.  He wants long years, 8 to 9, and he's shopping bids with the big clubs. Not good.  Pitchers report to ST in about 6+ weeks.

Sox IMO took the low hanging fruit with Giolito.  Not a Boras guy, but they got the opt out wrong.  they can possibly get out of the deal the first year, if he is good.  If he is bad, he probably opts in.  That should work the other way.  NESN thinks they know that Snell might look for a shorter deal -- to see if he likes the new city -- the short deal might be Breslow's smartest man in the room wheelhouse.  We'll find out.  Japanese lefty Imanega is down to Mets, Angels, and Sox.  So Boston has better odds.  But he has until Jan 11 to sign or he must return to japan.  It's a crazy market this year, like no other.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 30, 2023, 07:14:50 AM
It seems to be a screwed up FA market.  First the Japanese stars went on a tour, being wined and dined around the country, forever.  Now the FA market for pitchers is being controlled by Boras and his clients Snell and Montgomery.  He wants long years, 8 to 9, and he's shopping bids with the big clubs. Not good.  Pitchers report to ST in about 6+ weeks.

Sox IMO took the low hanging fruit with Giolito.  Not a Boras guy, but they got the opt out wrong.  they can possibly get out of the deal the first year, if he is good.  If he is bad, he probably opts in.  That should work the other way.  NESN thinks they know that Snell might look for a shorter deal -- to see if he likes the new city -- the short deal might be Breslow's smartest man in the room wheelhouse.  We'll find out.  Japanese lefty Imanega is down to Mets, Angels, and Sox.  So Boston has better odds.  But he has until Jan 11 to sign or he must return to japan.  It's a crazy market this year, like no other.

Reminds me a lot of when Harper and Machado were Boras FA's. Might have been a 3rd in there. The off season crawled.

Did I see that Breslow traded Chris Sale to the Braves?  Wow.  The Sox get a 2B in Vaughn Grissom.

The Red Sox will reportedly give the Braves $17 million in addition to Sale, who waived his no-trade clause to go to Atlanta. The extra cash, reported by the Boston Globe’s Alex Speier, will likely go toward paying the 34-year-old's $27.5 million salary for the 2024 season.

Grissom has been playing winter ball in Puerto Rico as he prepares for a position change from the middle infield to left field. Drafted by the Braves in the 11th round of the 2019 draft, his first hit in the majors was a massive homer out of Fenway.

I've been waiting 4 years for Bloom to pull off this kind of trade with vet players, especially at the lame year trade deadlines when we were holding on by a thread.

I think this Grissom guy is legit if it's who I am thinking of. He was blocked by Ozzie Albies.  I just looked it up. He's got three seasons before he even hits Arbitration. Again, if he's who I think he is, this is NOT a bloomer-boy Stats-cast pet project. Proven MLB talent. Hell, even if he isn't who I think it is, the stats alone are good enuff. :)

The irony of Sale having a monster season would be a massive blow for sure. <gulp?>

Let's hope Bora$ doesn't jerk us around with Montgomery all Winter long only to not land him in the end and we're left without a chair, to use Fred's metaphor earlier. Maybe Imanaga?

Grissom was  touted to be the new Braves shortstop when Dansby went free agent but he lost that job; given a shot in left fiend where there was a big hole, he failed there to and was shipped back to the minors.  When Albies was  injured he got a shot at second and was found wanting.   Just what the hell did we did get in Vaughn, another Franchy Cordero?  Well no, he is better than that, but the guy hasn't been able to crack a lineup that offered him a chance to do so.  Perhaps in Boston he will be in the left field mix but if he plays some second it MUST BE TEMPORARY.....THAT SPOT MUST BE KEPT FOR NICK YORKE, ONE OF OUR BEST PROSPECTS.   As for Giolito, Angels fans can tell you a boatload of st ories in his  time with them  this past season.......namely, he got the living shit knocked out of him and wound up giving up 41 homers for the season, many with the Angles in his two months there.  No, we haven't improved all that much in the last day unless Giolito turns it around fast and Grissom learns how to win a position and keep it.  Right now I have doubts about both of them.  Remember Kluber, Valzez and Downs?  I do and would like to get players who can help us win.  These two are question marks at best.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 30, 2023, 03:01:25 PM
Grissom was  touted to be the new Braves shortstop when Dansby went free agent but he lost that job; given a shot in left fiend where there was a big hole, he failed there to and was shipped back to the minors.  When Albies was  injured he got a shot at second and was found wanting.   Just what the hell did we did get in Vaughn, another Franchy Cordero?  Well no, he is better than that, but the guy hasn't been able to crack a lineup that offered him a chance to do so.  Perhaps in Boston he will be in the left field mix but if he plays some second it MUST BE TEMPORARY.....THAT SPOT MUST BE KEPT FOR NICK YORKE, ONE OF OUR BEST PROSPECTS.   As for Giolito, Angels fans can tell you a boatload of st ories in his  time with them  this past season.......namely, he got the living shit knocked out of him and wound up giving up 41 homers for the season, many with the Angles in his two months there.  No, we haven't improved all that much in the last day unless Giolito turns it around fast and Grissom learns how to win a position and keep it.  Right now I have doubts about both of them.  Remember Kluber, Valzez and Downs?  I do and would like to get players who can help us win.  These two are question marks at best.

Fred, there might be some hope for Giolito.  He was doing really good for Cleveland before the trade to LAA.  Then he got caught up in a nasty divorce (from wife!).  I hope beyond hope that that is what Breslow is banking on, that he too can help husbands in distress.  And try this, Grissom will be a trade in the next two weeks as part of a multi-player deal for a Marlins/Brewers/Seattle pitcher.  I'm hoping that Breslow is a master manipulator that we have not seen in Boston in awhile.  That is the only thing I'm hanging my hat on.  Of course it could very well be Breslow turns out to be an empty suit like you say, and his followup deal is signing James Paxton of all people.

Mongo, my Braves friend tells me the Sale deal leaves Atlanta owing Sale only $500 k next year.  We pay the $17mil, but he says there  his extention as a part of the  contract that defers a lot of money in this trade.  Maybe the Braves worked out some nuances that Ohtani made available to the Dodgers.  What a week in baseball.

Now that is interesting. The Braves are close to the threshold as it stands, $205M plus payroll taxes and all. This deferral thing is going to be every high rolling teams' get out of jail card within a few years. Every team will have their own Bobby Bonilla days.  LOL

What do your Braves friends say about Grissom's defensive skills?

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 30, 2023, 04:02:26 PM
Now that is interesting. The Braves are close to the threshold as it stands, $205M plus payroll taxes and all. This deferral thing is going to be every high rolling teams' get out of jail card within a few years. Every team will have their own Bobby Bonilla days.  LOL

What do your Braves friends say about Grissom's defensive skills?

He did not have much good to say about Grissom.  They brought him up to play SS after Swanson signed with the Cubs.  But other than his bat, he did not hold up at SS.  He did get his first MLB hit on a homer over the Monster at Fenway this year.   He is a .320 hitter in AAA and I think he was .290 while in Atlanta before they sent him down

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 30, 2023, 05:07:26 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 30, 2023, 04:02:26 PM
Now that is interesting. The Braves are close to the threshold as it stands, $205M plus payroll taxes and all. This deferral thing is going to be every high rolling teams' get out of jail card within a few years. Every team will have their own Bobby Bonilla days.  LOL

What do your Braves friends say about Grissom's defensive skills?

He did not have much good to say about Grissom.  They brought him up to play SS after Swanson signed with the Cubs.  But other than his bat, he did not hold up at SS.  He did get his first MLB hit on a homer over the Monster at Fenway this year.   He is a .320 hitter in AAA and I think he was .290 while in Atlanta before they sent him down

In deference to Vaughn, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that even tough failed at short and left field for the Braves in the past two seasons, the guy didn't sulk when sent down.  He had a very good season at Triple AAA hitting over 320, showing some power and a very good attitude.  Still mad at my beloved team for sitting on their collective asses while the Hot Stove season kept perking along, I failed to give some real credit where credit was due.  Vaughn went down and showed he could be a Major Leaguer and here is hoping they find the right spot for him.  He can play a corner outfield spot, shortstop and second base and could be one of those versatile players who can get over 400 at-bats in a season if he shows he can now hit Major League pitching. Still, we traded one of our starting pitchers and picked up one.  We need one or two more and my man is Montgomery and the money needed to sign must be expended by John Henry for the only lefthander that would be in our rotation.  We need to get the job done.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 30, 2023, 03:22:39 PM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 30, 2023, 03:01:25 PM
Grissom was  touted to be the new Braves shortstop when Dansby went free agent but he lost that job; given a shot in left fiend where there was a big hole, he failed there to and was shipped back to the minors.  When Albies was  injured he got a shot at second and was found wanting.   Just what the hell did we did get in Vaughn, another Franchy Cordero?  Well no, he is better than that, but the guy hasn't been able to crack a lineup that offered him a chance to do so.  Perhaps in Boston he will be in the left field mix but if he plays some second it MUST BE TEMPORARY.....THAT SPOT MUST BE KEPT FOR NICK YORKE, ONE OF OUR BEST PROSPECTS.   As for Giolito, Angels fans can tell you a boatload of st ories in his  time with them  this past season.......namely, he got the living shit knocked out of him and wound up giving up 41 homers for the season, many with the Angles in his two months there.  No, we haven't improved all that much in the last day unless Giolito turns it around fast and Grissom learns how to win a position and keep it.  Right now I have doubts about both of them.  Remember Kluber, Valzez and Downs?  I do and would like to get players who can help us win.  These two are question marks at best.

Fred, there might be some hope for Giolito.  He was doing really good for Cleveland before the trade to LAA.  Then he got caught up in a nasty divorce (from wife!).  I hope beyond hope that that is what Breslow is banking on, that he too can help husbands in distress.  And try this, Grissom will be a trade in the next two weeks as part of a multi-player deal for a Marlins/Brewers/Seattle pitcher.  I'm hoping that Breslow is a master manipulator that we have not seen in Boston in awhile.  That is the only thing I'm hanging my hat on.  Of course it could very well be Breslow turns out to be an empty suit like you say, and his followup deal is signing James Paxton of all people.

Good points you made my friend.  A divorce can really throw a player off course and he was doing well before he got traded to the Angels where the roof fell in on him.  At least Breslow is finally in there pitching for Red Sox improvement but he needs now to strikeout the side, pitch a shutout and get us that big pi tcher like Montgomery that we need so badly.  If we are to compete this coming season we need to be strong on the hill.  We are still not  there and have a ways to go.

The way I look at it any deal for Sale is an improvement.  Playing the percentages, I always thought that there was a high probability that Sale would spend a more time on the IL than on the field.  In fact I think it is a virtual certainty. I suspect Breslow thought the same.

From Cotillo,

Hearing from a source that “the Red Sox have told at least one free agent target that they need to shed more payroll before pursuing him as aggressively as they want to.”

@redsoxpayroll
currently has them at $201.01 MM after the Chris Sale trade. The first luxury tax threshold is $237 MM.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 31, 2023, 12:42:40 PM
From Cotillo,

Hearing from a source that “the Red Sox have told at least one free agent target that they need to shed more payroll before pursuing him as aggressively as they want to.”

@redsoxpayroll
currently has them at $201.01 MM after the Chris Sale trade. The first luxury tax threshold is $237 MM.

From what source?  If it came from a member of the Red Sox front office take it for the bullshit that it is.  These guys have lied from the moment one of them said 'WE'RE IN THIS FREEE AGENT CHASE ALL THE WAY."  They've done nothing but lied their way through this whole off season about trying to build back into a contender.  The fact is John Henry is calling the shots and we should know by now that he is a cheap bastard who simply does not want to spend any of his money anymore.  Even some the Boston area press has finally at long last gotten on to his bull.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 31, 2023, 12:42:40 PM
From Cotillo,

Hearing from a source that “the Red Sox have told at least one free agent target that they need to shed more payroll before pursuing him as aggressively as they want to.”

@redsoxpayroll
currently has them at $201.01 MM after the Chris Sale trade. The first luxury tax threshold is $237 MM.

I thought your $185M number in another thread was a bit high, but close to accurate. Not sure about the $201M. If it's the higher amount, we don't have enough money for Montgomery with Gioloto signed.  Trading off our best 8th & 9th inning options to save payroll to apply towards another starting pitcher only swaps problems. This is a Bloom strategy, not a common sense strategy.

Trade partners? Grissom does give us, as you mentioned, an MLB ready chip to toss in. His low whiff rate suggest Seattle, but they already got Urias from us. Marlins have Aruz already, and I think they got a Dodgers young SS the year before. If we're chasing Cleveland and/or Milwaukee for trades, I think both of them want MLB ready talent. Duran and Grissom fit. If we mention Duran, I think Miami might be in. Hard to say.

Just PLEASE, PLEASE and PRETTY PLEASE let the farm grow another year before harvesting as trade bait.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 01, 2024, 10:22:28 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 31, 2023, 12:42:40 PM
From Cotillo,

Hearing from a source that “the Red Sox have told at least one free agent target that they need to shed more payroll before pursuing him as aggressively as they want to.”

@redsoxpayroll
currently has them at $201.01 MM after the Chris Sale trade. The first luxury tax threshold is $237 MM.

I thought your $185M number in another thread was a bit high, but close to accurate. Not sure about the $201M. If it's the higher amount, we don't have enough money for Montgomery with Gioloto signed.  Trading off our best 8th & 9th inning options to save payroll to apply towards another starting pitcher only swaps problems. This is a Bloom strategy, not a common sense strategy.

Trade partners? Grissom does give us, as you mentioned, an MLB ready chip to toss in. His low whiff rate suggest Seattle, but they already got Urias from us. Marlins have Aruz already, and I think they got a Dodgers young SS the year before. If we're chasing Cleveland and/or Milwaukee for trades, I think both of them want MLB ready talent. Duran and Grissom fit. If we mention Duran, I think Miami might be in. Hard to say.

Just PLEASE, PLEASE and PRETTY PLEASE let the farm grow another year before harvesting as trade bait.

And if these prospects perform as many believe they will, then let's make them the building block for our next great Red Sox team----and for God's sake let's see if Breslow and his cohorts can finally help the R ed Sox start to develop some home grown pitching prospects that can get us back into a World Series or two before I drop dead. ( I am 83)

Llovera, our 2023 trade deadline loot, got DFA'd to make room for a dumpster dive from the Royals. We got a 24 year Minor League (AAA) starting pitcher named Max Castillo. He made a handful of relief appearances in the bigs the last season and a mixed 6 starts and 8 relief appearances the year before. His MLB career ERA is 5.43 ERA with a 1.37 WHIP and an unimpressive k-rate.

He was part of the trade that sent Merrifield to Toronto. He had two decent years in the Toronto system. 2019 A+ with a 2.69 ERA in 24 starts. He was having a very nice year in 2022 between AA and AAA before getting traded to KC, which is about where he imploded.

Soooo, there's at least a chance this guy can get back on track if we're allowed to assume something about the KC situation was at fault. Probably more use than Llovera, but I never liked that trade to begin with and could be a bit on the grumpy side considering we kept him instead of protecting a couple guys I had higher hopes for in the minors. 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 04, 2024, 06:37:51 AM
Llovera, our 2023 trade deadline loot, got DFA'd to make room for a dumpster dive from the Royals. We got a 24 year Minor League (AAA) starting pitcher named Max Castillo. He made a handful of relief appearances in the bigs the last season and a mixed 6 starts and 8 relief appearances the year before. His MLB career ERA is 5.43 ERA with a 1.37 WHIP and an unimpressive k-rate.

He was part of the trade that sent Merrifield to Toronto. He had two decent years in the Toronto system. 2019 A+ with a 2.69 ERA in 24 starts. He was having a very nice year in 2022 between AA and AAA before getting traded to KC, which is about where he imploded.

Soooo, there's at least a chance this guy can get back on track if we're allowed to assume something about the KC situation was at fault. Probably more use than Llovera, but I never liked that trade to begin with and could be a bit on the grumpy side considering we kept him instead of protecting a couple guys I had higher hopes for in the minors.

Perhaps one of the last vestiges of that miserable Bloom era is going the way of the ten ents hamburger.  Still, so far Breslow has been no great shakes as a replacement either, barely above that departed bum.  Sad prediction---- we are supposed to be deep in the running for Montgomery.  we will not get him.

The owner is too cheap for him to start spending money.  He still feels that he was forced into signing Devers last winter when he was nearly booed off the state at the first Red Sox rally.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 04, 2024, 06:37:51 AM
Llovera, our 2023 trade deadline loot, got DFA'd to make room for a dumpster dive from the Royals. We got a 24 year Minor League (AAA) starting pitcher named Max Castillo. He made a handful of relief appearances in the bigs the last season and a mixed 6 starts and 8 relief appearances the year before. His MLB career ERA is 5.43 ERA with a 1.37 WHIP and an unimpressive k-rate.

He was part of the trade that sent Merrifield to Toronto. He had two decent years in the Toronto system. 2019 A+ with a 2.69 ERA in 24 starts. He was having a very nice year in 2022 between AA and AAA before getting traded to KC, which is about where he imploded.

Soooo, there's at least a chance this guy can get back on track if we're allowed to assume something about the KC situation was at fault. Probably more use than Llovera, but I never liked that trade to begin with and could be a bit on the grumpy side considering we kept him instead of protecting a couple guys I had higher hopes for in the minors.

The only redeeming thing I've read about Castillo is that they think they can make him a 1-inning bullpen guy.  His time as a starter. he had four pitches, two of which he could not throw for strikes.  So they think they can get him to throw the other two pitches well.  End of story, I doubt Castillo is the one who gets us to the #3 wildcard this year.

It could be the Sox can be shamed, shamed into a FA move for a pitcher.  The Boston press have been unrelenting in questioning FSG.  The name theyre looking at could well be Blake Snell.  Sox seem to be looking at a short term, high dollar yearly pay out, like 2-3 years.  Montgomery I think wants a 7-8 year deal.  Surely something is about to break loose.  Happy New Year is over and there are just six weeks or so to get arms out to Jet Blue.

I have a double dose of mayhem in my house.  Rooting for the Red Sox and also for my alma mater North Carolina.  As you know one of Breslow's first signings was the Rays AA/AAA pitcher Cooper Criswell.  I got one of the UNC junkies to give me a recap of what Criswell did in his one year at UNC.  His manager seemed to have faith in him as the #! or #2 starter, but for some reason lost faith in him during the College World Series in 2018.  He was sent to the bullpen, then became a starter in the next game when the bullpen blew the save.  In 2022 he had a 3.95 era two years ago in AA, AAA with a stint in Tampa.  2023 was a mystery.  Maybe TJS.   

Criswell only pitched one year at UNC (2018), after arriving as a juco transfer. He started the year pitching out of the bullpen, and ended it as our Friday starter. He was the starter in the first game of the regional and first game of the super regional, winning both, and then in what seemed a strange decision, did not start our first game of CWS in Omaha. However,  he was brought in to get the save. He later started what turned out to be our elimination game, when the bullpen collapsed, blowing a 3 run lead by allowing 8 combined runs in the 8th and 9th innings.

I hear you Sea Dog, we're a UNC household too as my son and my money went there.  That doesn't sound promising, but we're used to stockpiling recovery projects.

You're right about them being shamed everywhere, locally and beyond.  They've set themselves up in a position where they'll be forced to overpay for someone in terms of dollars and/or prospects. I keep wanting to believe that they'll make the moves they desperately need to make before the end of the month, but it's more hope than expectation.

They've got two weeks until "Winter Weekend". At this rate they better bring heavy security.

The Sox are desparately trying to get a FA deal done for another OF with a righty bat.  Writers have reported that Boston will not go more than two years on any deal other than pitching.

They lost our on Teoscar Hernandez to LAD.  Today they are targeting three back up plans,Yoshida is still said to be up for a trade if a righty bat gets a deal.
Jorge Soler is next up.  Last year for Marlins he hit.250, 36 hr., 75 rbi, 27.9 K/rate
slash line in 2023 was .250/.341/.512/.853

Michael Taylor has popped up as an option for the Red Sox on multiple occasions this offseason. The Gold Glove Award winner clubbed 21 home runs last season across 129 games played and slashed .220/.278/.442.

Tommy Pham is available and appeared in 129 total games last season with the New York Mets and Arizona Diamondbacks and smashed 16 home runs, drove in 68 runs, and slashed .256/.328/.446.

Both Pham and Taylor could be intriguing options because either could help defensively as well in the outfield. Boston has plenty of work to do and there's sure to be plenty more rumors before the club actually gets a deal done.

It now seems evident that Prune Face is going to once again hold the line to any spending whatsoever and condemn the team to another disastrous campaign.  We have little power to counteract this cheap bastard but boycotting games, refusing to watch NESN, not reading the rag Globe and buying nothing connected to the Red Sox might be the only leverage we have.  We need to get that bum out of Boston.  He has ruined everything good that he helped bring about.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on January 09, 2024, 04:11:32 PM
It now seems evident that Prune Face is going to once again hold the line to any spending whatsoever and condemn the team to another disastrous campaign.  We have little power to counteract this cheap bastard but boycotting games, refusing to watch NESN, not reading the rag Globe and buying nothing connected to the Red Sox might be the only leverage we have.  We need to get that bum out of Boston.  He has ruined everything good that he helped bring about.

Fred, I don't know what to say.  It is going on second week of Jan. What is going on in Boston?  They just lost another bidding exercise for a pitcher --- Imanaga to the Cubs.  They seem to be a team without a plan.  One of the writers put out a good article that FSG are acting like an owner ready to sell the team.  They are shopping all the big contracts for one thing.  Werner answered that writer and said, "when has Fenway Sports ever sold anything?" 

Where this is going is anybody's guess.  The off-season tells me that they are not ready to put a competitive team on the field this year.  They could compete with the Royals and the Angels, maybe.  but there is absolutely no way they can put a team out there that O's, Rays, Jays would respect.  Maybe you have a better look.  But a month or so from Jet Blue, this is looking crazy.

I'm seeing the same thing on the Cubs probably getting Imanaga. Also seeing Yanks and Strohman might be getting close to a deal. Not looking good, unless there is some traction around Montgomery that we don't know about.

Another lovely Winter.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 10, 2024, 10:23:26 AM
I'm seeing the same thing on the Cubs probably getting Imanaga. Also seeing Yanks and Strohman might be getting close to a deal. Not looking good, unless there is some traction around Montgomery that we don't know about.

Another lovely Winter.

R
I saw that about Stroman.  Our only nibble in the last several weeks,  Mike Clevenger said today that he would "prefer" to play in Boston.  Clevenger?  He is probably this year's Garrett Richards!

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 10, 2024, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 10, 2024, 10:23:26 AM
I'm seeing the same thing on the Cubs probably getting Imanaga. Also seeing Yanks and Strohman might be getting close to a deal. Not looking good, unless there is some traction around Montgomery that we don't know about.

Another lovely Winter.

R
I saw that about Stroman.  Our only nibble in the last several weeks,  Mike Clevenger said today that he would "prefer" to play in Boston.  Clevenger?  He is probably this year's Garrett Richards!

Clevenger!!!!!!  This was already shaping up to be another miserable Red Sox day for fans like us who live and die with our beloved team---AND NOW WE HAVE TO HEAR THE NAME CLEVENGER!!!!!!  Another Richards, or Kluber or what we've stackedour team with on the hill the past few years.  Sorry guys but I'm about ready to lose my lunch.

From what I’ve seen on social media, the natives are restless and Winter Weekend could turn out ugly.  No wonder the owner won’t attend because he’s a chicken Sh!t.  Mismanagement on and off the field.

JimMcCaffery's  piece in today's Athletic is one of the best takes on Red Sox ownership.  I was unaware that Boston has major redevelopment plans for the Fenway area.  I think this gives some insight on why Henry is not spending on players. 

Remember Henry is an investor first and the Red Sox are merely one of his investments in his portfolio.  It has long been thought by many Boston sports writers that Henry is now more interested in developing Fenway park as a year round destination than the baseball team at the present time.

Quote from: elktonnick on January 11, 2024, 08:31:02 AM
JimMcCaffery's  piece in today's Athletic is one of the best takes on Red Sox ownership.  I was unaware that Boston has major redevelopment plans for the Fenway area.  I think this gives some insight on why Henry is not spending on players. 

Remember Henry is an investor first and the Red Sox are merely one of his investments in his portfolio.  It has long been thought by many Boston sports writers that Henry is now more interested in developing Fenway park as a year round destination than the baseball team at the present time.

Sounds like he's taking a cue from the Braves and the entertainment district they built around the new ballpark. 

I like the Sox as a baseball team, not as a pink hat amusement park.  Henry needs to keep his eye on the ball. 

Unlike other clubs going under similar projects, ours does not seem hell bent in making the team all that attractive of a draw. Very odd.

Actually from a business sense it makes a lot of sense.  There is no significant growth in the value of the Red Sox as a franchise per se.  The growth is in increasing the value of the area around Fenway Park.  Maintain the Red Sox team as a competitive  team at a minimum  level using excess funds to develop the real estate in the immediate vicinity.  Once the development is funded then rebuild the team.

I think that is what they are doing

Quote from: longgame on January 11, 2024, 07:47:01 AM
From what I’ve seen on social media, the natives are restless and Winter Weekend could turn out ugly.  No wonder the owner won’t attend because he’s a chicken Sh!t.  Mismanagement on and off the field.

I read that the Winter Weekend has been cancelled this year.  Maybe there is some other entertainment offered at that time, but it seems the MGT team is ducking out this year.  They really can't take the emotional abuse, really.

For free-agent pitchers, one guy reported that it was down to Cubs and Sox for getting Imanaga.  Giants and Angels pulled out.  That Sox had actually doubled their offer to get him,  BUT Imanaga wanted the Cubs, and he kept taking the Sox latest offer to Cubs to get the deal he wanted.

There's an interesting podcast on Redacted featuring an interview with Giolito.  Of course he is coming off a down year, but Lucas describes how he was drawn to the Breslow-Bailey approach to producing the best possible mechanics/metrics/analytics, which he thought was very in depth. 

For example, Bailey asked him to picture pitching as being on a tightrope 1,000feet in the air.  If you fall off (like going into a 8- game tailspin), how do you correct.  Bailey wants to develop for each pitcher a fail-safe, if they fall off the tightrope, it's only 10 feet down and Bailey has a fix to get out of the funk by the next start. Giolito is working on the effects of his slider, he knows his 4-seamer and change-up are dependable.  His goal is throwing 200 innings like James Shields used to do, and he prides himself as being a workhorse.  He admits 200 innings is a good metric, because if his ERA is high, he is not going to even approach 200.

Imanaga get 4 years, 54M with a 5th year option from the Cubs. Strohman gets two years, $38M with a 3rd year vesting option from the Yanks.

So, one has really got to wonder what kind of intel Imanaga got from Yoshida about the prospects of playing in Boston. I could not have been all that positive, that's for sure. I wonder if Yoshida wants and asked to be traded?

Cora? Organization? Organization vs Cora? Fan/media fish bowl? Some sort of strange combo. It's been a mess for a long time.

For Sox it seems to be down to Montgomery or (gulp) Clevenger or an equal talent.  The Yankees bid on Blake Snell was rejected, it was said, as the terms were short in years.  No way Sox will get involved as they're looking at one and two year deals.

Source familiar with the situation just told me the Yankees offer was $30M a year, 5 years deal $150M Total money. But Snell rejected because he want more money or one more year. #Yankees #BlakeSnell

The Yanks are in a big payroll push these days. $277M before taxes & benefits. They're still trying to sign guys like Snell? Part of me thinks that Strohman was the plan-D prize. Not a bad one, of course.

There was a rank the MLB Minor League organizations article on MLB.com yesterday. The Red Sox ranked decently overall, meaning some executive voted them highly as a Minor League organization ahead of Baltimore. Baltimore got 79% of the votes. The Red Sox did get voted as having the best under-rated system.

Huh???  Roll another and pass it down!

We didn't place in the rest of the questions. Not even once.
https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/front-office-executives-choose-best-farm-systems-2024?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage (https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/front-office-executives-choose-best-farm-systems-2024?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage)

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 12, 2024, 09:28:17 AM
Imanaga get 4 years, 54M with a 5th year option from the Cubs. Strohman gets two years, $38M with a 3rd year vesting option from the Yanks.

So, one has really got to wonder what kind of intel Imanaga got from Yoshida about the prospects of playing in Boston. I could not have been all that positive, that's for sure. I wonder if Yoshida wants and asked to be traded?

Cora? Organization? Organization vs Cora? Fan/media fish bowl? Some sort of strange combo. It's been a mess for a long time.

From what I saw the Sox offered 2 years with 2 years vesting options.  Initial dollars were higher than the Cubs but he got longevity which is smart for a guy new to the league.

Quote from: elktonnick on January 11, 2024, 10:41:56 AM
Actually from a business sense it makes a lot of sense.  There is no significant growth in the value of the Red Sox as a franchise per se.  The growth is in increasing the value of the area around Fenway Park.  Maintain the Red Sox team as a competitive  team at a minimum  level using excess funds to develop the real estate in the immediate vicinity.  Once the development is funded then rebuild the team.

I think that is what they are doing

The Atlanta one was fun and as someone who used to live in CT we always made sure we got to the ballpark early enough to maybe eat and have a few beers before the game.  It's a good idea except for the idea that it's another shiny new toy for Henry who got tired of his old toys.

Quote from: longgame on January 12, 2024, 03:29:35 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on January 11, 2024, 10:41:56 AM
Actually from a business sense it makes a lot of sense.  There is no significant growth in the value of the Red Sox as a franchise per se.  The growth is in increasing the value of the area around Fenway Park.  Maintain the Red Sox team as a competitive  team at a minimum  level using excess funds to develop the real estate in the immediate vicinity.  Once the development is funded then rebuild the team.

I think that is what they are doing

The Atlanta one was fun and as someone who used to live in CT we always made sure we got to the ballpark early enough to maybe eat and have a few beers before the game.  It's a good idea except for the idea that it's another shiny new toy for Henry who got tired of his old toys.

I think we have to resist the temptation to think of Henry as an individual but rather as the head of a multi investor corporation known as FSG.  FSG as an entity is interested in growth across several sports enterprises not just the Red Sox.  It should be fairly obvious to all that Henry's  top priority is to FSG not just the Red Sox.
Not that it matters but the Boston Red Sox may not be the FSGs most valuable asset.  That may go to Liverpool which competes on bigger stage which is worldwide.

Sox and Angels fighting over Duvall.  Sox can’t even sign guys who played for them last year.

Quote from: longgame on January 19, 2024, 07:38:18 AM
Sox and Angels fighting over Duvall.  Sox can’t even sign guys who played for them last year.

How cheap can they get Ted????  This is beyond ridiculous!!!!  The ownership has told us to gut it out because we are not going to be competing this season for anything but fourth place in the AL East, and we most likely won't win that battle either.  Very sad indeed.

Werner said they’re cutting payroll and that they are selling “the Fenway experience” and have deals for students.  When I was a student you could still show up and buy tickets and as students we could afford them.  The stadium wasn’t very full and won’t be this year.

Latest rumor is the Dodgers are interested in Paxton.  I'm going to catch a Dodgers ST game in March.  It will be good to see all the former Sox.

Quote from: longgame on January 23, 2024, 08:57:37 AM
Latest rumor is the Dodgers are interested in Paxton.  I'm going to catch a Dodgers ST game in March.  It will be good to see all the former Sox.

You can strike Paxton off the list as well as Collin McHugh, who just announced his retirement.  You may think I'm looney for putting his name on there, but he was signed by the Sox (never pitched), and would seem to be another reclamation project for this Breslow team.

I could see the Sox checking in on Brandon Woodruff to be their second FA pitcher.  The Mets had talked to him when they didn't get close to the Yamamota sweepstakes.  Woodruff could be had for 2/$20m.  That addition is not going to get them a wildcard, but it will keep them low budget, which is where they want to be heading this year.