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Buyers or Sellers?

Started by MongoLikeSox, June 15, 2023, 09:05:30 AM

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Sea Dog 23

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on July 23, 2023, 11:40:04 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 23, 2023, 07:01:27 AM
I'm still on the fence with this team. I'm OK with some of the young player blunders. They happen. The solid veterans have to be solid. I think I'm talking about Devers, Kike and Turner (when he's in the field).

Quote from: longgame on July 18, 2023, 08:58:44 AM
Keep poor Arroyo on the field until he breaks.  I don't get it, the guy is a solid ballplayer.  We don't need another guy out of position!
Cora's seemed quite content to insert Turner in there this past week. He's not looking great out in the field. (I'm being nice) In a few weeks' time, we could see Story and Arroyo as the primary Middle Infield setup. I fear that Arroyo's holding the short straw in Cora's plans.

Cora will do anything to keep fielding sieve Kiki Hernandez in the lineup.  What more needs to be said.  It is plainly obvious that Cora favors the guy like he was his own kid and that bodes ill will for the team.  Why someone in the front office can't see this astounds me.  Simply put Arroyo has been jerked around by the smartest man in the room for the better part of three seasons.  Yes, Christian seems unable to stay on the field and it is almost like he is made of tissue paper but he is infinitely better than Hernandez.  Then again, this gets old because Cora keeps doind this and getting away with it.  We have to hope that someone upstairs wakes up and sends both Bloom and Alex packing.

To add to the crowded infield, there's Story.  He played SS in his rehab at Portland today.  By end of next week, somebody will be DFA'd or traded, among Arroyo, Kike, or Pablo.

MongoLikeSox

They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.

The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.


longgame

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.

The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.

Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.

MongoLikeSox

Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.

The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.

Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
I'm with you on that one. :)

Sea Dog 23

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 08:17:03 AM
Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.

The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.

Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
I'm with you on that one. :)

As of awhile ago there was a clubhouse meeting, attended by Arroyo-Reyes-Kike', and some others.  The word is Kike' has been traded.  I'm guessing LA, based on some chatter.

MongoLikeSox

Sweet! We're already better. I hope Arroyo gets the majority of 2B PT. Long over due.

MongoLikeSox

Two AAA BP guys. Justin Hagenman with a 2.78 ERA looks like a multiple innings guy/part time starter type with a WHIP of 1.07. The other one is Nick Robertson. Robertson has appeared in 6 MLB games and got raked hard twice with an ERA around 6.00. Up and down a couple of times. He averaged 13k per 9IP in AAA this year with an era of 2.54. Big drink of water at 6' 6".  He's on the 40-man obviously, so likely will be with us as well.

We needed AAA near ready BP guys. Hopefully they work out. 

Sea Dog 23

#37
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 04:51:17 PM
Two AAA BP guys. Justin Hagenman with a 2.78 ERA looks like a multiple innings guy/part time starter type with a WHIP of 1.07. The other one is Nick Robertson. Robertson has appeared in 6 MLB games and got raked hard twice with an ERA around 6.00. Up and down a couple of times. He averaged 13k per 9IP in AAA this year with an era of 2.54. Big drink of water at 6' 6".  He's on the 40-man obviously, so likely will be with us as well.

We needed AAA near ready BP guys. Hopefully they work out.

These two Dodgers parallel our RP's Murphy and Walter.  Really good at AAA (Okla City), but they can't do as well at MLB level.  Of course the two Dodgers were not in their Top 50 prospects, unlike Murphy and Walter who are our Top 15.  Robertson was exposed on Rule 5 last year, but nobody claimed him.

Bottom line, they're both more value than Ort and Garza.

MongoLikeSox

Neither of them were top-30 ranked?

Sea Dog 23

#39
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 05:14:16 PM
Neither of them were top-30 ranked?

Not on the Top 50 list I saw today.  It could well be bodies for a body.   And it could be we eat some of Kike's $10 mil salary, and the Dodgers could have a bunch to cut loose around the Rule 5 this year, just like the Sox.

Just saw we sent $2.5 mil to LA to complete things.

SeaBeachFred

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 25, 2023, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 08:17:03 AM
Quote from: longgame on July 25, 2023, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 24, 2023, 08:28:09 AM
They will need to make a decision on Reyes. He played his 20-game maximum rehab games. I don't know how soon after the 20th game that decision has to happen. I assume it's something like 48 hours.

The whole middle infield scenario starts with Reyes. They could simply DFA him. They could promote him and DFA Chang, Kike or Arroyo. There might be a trade in the works for Kike. One could hope that he was being showcased and that Arroyo is not the odd man out. There is one article in the Athletic suggesting the Giants for Kike. I'm doubting a whole lot of good can come from that trade other than addition from subtraction.

Getting Kike off the roster would be a plus in itself.
I'm with you on that one. :)

As of awhile ago there was a clubhouse meeting, attended by Arroyo-Reyes-Kike', and some others.  The word is Kike' has been traded.  I'm guessing LA, based on some chatter.

THE WORD?  I'll believe it when I see it.  By now everyone on this board knows how much Cora loves Kiki---for whatever reason and this time Bloom has to send him away.

MongoLikeSox

So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?

Sea Dog 23

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 10:35:43 PM
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?

It could be a little of both.  Verdugo is in a nosedive.  Slumping badly in July, he was 0-7 in the parts of two games  played in with the Mets on Saturday.  Trading Dugie could bring a reliable pitcher, but how do you man the RF slot?  Although trading him would be a Tampa special going into his contract year in 2024 and selling high during his best overall year.

As far as Duvall,  it would be foolish to trade him without some thinking.  You have three LH hitting outfielders as starters with the Kike' trade.  If you choose to oppose a lefty hurler with a RH bat, you now need Duvall and/or Refsnyder.  Platooning with Duran/Duvall in CF is another option.  But as most of us would say, let Duran run with CF, and don't keep moving him in and out.

MongoLikeSox

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on July 26, 2023, 06:46:44 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on July 25, 2023, 10:35:43 PM
So whatchyu guys think. Is tonight's Verdugo rest about Verdugo, or is it about showcasing Duvall?

It could be a little of both.  Verdugo is in a nosedive.  Slumping badly in July, he was 0-7 in the parts of two games  played in with the Mets on Saturday.  Trading Dugie could bring a reliable pitcher, but how do you man the RF slot?  Although trading him would be a Tampa special going into his contract year in 2024 and selling high during his best overall year.

As far as Duvall,  it would be foolish to trade him without some thinking.  You have three LH hitting outfielders as starters with the Kike' trade.  If you choose to oppose a lefty hurler with a RH bat, you now need Duvall and/or Refsnyder.  Platooning with Duran/Duvall in CF is another option.  But as most of us would say, let Duran run with CF, and don't keep moving him in and out.
A semi-Tampa move, perhaps? Seattle and St Louis had been talking controllable OF'er (Nootbar?) for starter Logan Gilbert , who has 4 more years of control and is a start-making sub 4.00 ERA pitcher. One less year of Duggie, I think, but he certainly qualifies.

This is where I bomb out on trade scenarios. I always over-value my guy and under-value theirs. Even when a trade works out for us. It's Crow Sandwiches 3 months later for me.

Sea Dog 23

#44
Mongo, I think there are multiple trades ahead for the Sox.  Probably paving the way for the 2024 team.  A big headache for Bloom, or whoever the Ops guy is, is the 40 man and who eventually gets dangled in the coming Rule 5 Draft.  I saw a list yesterday of 70 of our prospects who will get caught in the numbers game, like Ward and Song last year.

The list  includes  some good ones like Wikleman, Drohan, Gambrel, Lugo, Bonaci, many more.  The solution is to go ahead and trade some of the good pieces while they have value, especially where the prospects are blocked from getting to Boston anytime soon.  Trading those pieces for a rental is insane, and like you say, go for team control with guys like a Bieber or a Zach Eflin and Lowe of the Rays.

https://www.soxprospects.com/rule5.htm