Re: Red Sox Transformation

[MongoLikeSox]

Marte's power numbers had to have suffered due to playing in the big fields of Miami and Oakland. Other than stats, I've got almost no knowledge of how he plays and such.

This is going to be one weird off-season again. MLB and the Red Sox. The big decisions and unknowns just related to our outfield are big. We had some good outfield arms and it was a strength, but the errors and other miscues that did not count as errors at us up. Not one position on the field enjoyed a beginning to end solid defensive effort.

I do fear that Cora and Bloom think they are the reasons for this team doing se well. Lets not kid ourselves about the genius accolades of our Manager and GM. They got lucky as hell because the only ones left standing did their jobs very well. This team was on fumes and still found a way. No, they got rescued by some of the ones that got screwed. The lone position player decision left was 1B, and that didn't work out so well.

Whitlock was protected by medical and Pivetta was protected by promises kept until crunch time. Houck, Chavis, Dalbec, Darwinzon(a continuation), Duran, Franchy and Bazardo all got messed with and/or otherwise got misused. While we're here, let's add Jeter Downs to the list. He hit rock bottom and stayed there all season long instead of being moved down to Portland to get things right. I can't make this up. Before this season, Downs spent 12 games at AA. So he starts at AAA, hits a brick wall and they leave him there ALL FRIGGING SEASON????  Wow! Stunning development strategy. Let's see, was Bloom afraid that sending him back to pitching levels he could possibly fix things would make him look like a bad GM?

Anyone else whincing as Arroyo ran down the base paths thinking that if he pulls a hammy again, we get a combination of Santana/Arauz for the rest of the playoffs? Yeah, nice job with the Roster. Nice job with the youth development. We go into next season hoping Houck gets the 5th spot and that Bobby Dalbec can regain some sort of ressemblance to his mid-August to mid-September form before being benched. Sound somewhat familiar? Yeah, we went zero forward and had a crap roster all at once. Nope, my bad. We do have Whitlock, ho was thankfully protected by the medical staff.

[Sea Dog 23]

Marte's power numbers had to have suffered due to playing in the big fields of Miami and Oakland. Other than stats, I've got almost no knowledge of how he plays and such.

This is going to be one weird off-season again. MLB and the Red Sox. The big decisions and unknowns just related to our outfield are big. We had some good outfield arms and it was a strength, but the errors and other miscues that did not count as errors at us up. Not one position on the field enjoyed a beginning to end solid defensive effort.

I do fear that Cora and Bloom think they are the reasons for this team doing se well. Lets not kid ourselves about the genius accolades of our Manager and GM. They got lucky as hell because the only ones left standing did their jobs very well. This team was on fumes and still found a way. No, they got rescued by some of the ones that got screwed. The lone position player decision left was 1B, and that didn't work out so well.

Whitlock was protected by medical and Pivetta was protected by promises kept until crunch time. Houck, Chavis, Dalbec, Darwinzon(a continuation), Duran, Franchy and Bazardo all got messed with and/or otherwise got misused. While we're here, let's add Jeter Downs to the list. He hit rock bottom and stayed there all season long instead of being moved down to Portland to get things right. I can't make this up. Before this season, Downs spent 12 games at AA. So he starts at AAA, hits a brick wall and they leave him there ALL FRIGGING SEASON????  Wow! Stunning development strategy. Let's see, was Bloom afraid that sending him back to pitching levels he could possibly fix things would make him look like a bad GM?

Anyone else whincing as Arroyo ran down the base paths thinking that if he pulls a hammy again, we get a combination of Santana/Arauz for the rest of the playoffs? Yeah, nice job with the Roster. Nice job with the youth development. We go into next season hoping Houck gets the 5th spot and that Bobby Dalbec can regain some sort of ressemblance to his mid-August to mid-September form before being benched. Sound somewhat familiar? Yeah, we went zero forward and had a crap roster all at once. Nope, my bad. We do have Whitlock, ho was thankfully protected by the medical staff.

Mongo,  it looks like there are some pitchers who have developed nicely in AA and AAA this year.  Feltman and Winchowski, and could see Boston sooner than later next year.
As far as Downs, that is a sad story.  He did hit four homers in his first two weeks in the Ariz fall league.  But his future, if he ever gets to MLB seems to be 2B.  But that position looks to be locked up by Yorke, who was the Sox minor league POY, batting .333.  He won't arrive until 2023, so imo Arroyo is the Bloom flavor of 2022.
I've got my doubts about Bloom getting aggressive.  He will not make Yankee/Toronto type acquisitions, more like Tampa like I'm afraid.

[longgame]

I posted in the late thread:

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on October 23, 2021, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: markj on October 22, 2021, 09:57:29 PM
Santana is in? Really? Is Cora intentionally trying to lose this game?

I noticed that right off markj.  Cora has his favorites; I think everyone knows that by now and if we want to see bums like Santana and Perez and Richards and Cordero gone next year Bloom has to step in and tell Cora these bums are gone and unless you want to keep them company just accept that.  Then, again. who knows what's coming.  Still markj, I always knew that it could end like this, sorry to say.

The problem was that he never had anyone else to play either.  I was thinking about this a lot and it rings even truer now.  At the trade deadline, even though the Sox had lost their big 1st place lead, they could have turned it around.  Instead they got a guy who runs hot and cold just like the team in Schwarber, who wasn't available for several weeks.  The calculation surely was not to invest too heavily.  But look at both Atlanta and Houston - they went wild.  Atlanta has a different outfield than when they started.  Houston added to their bullpen.  Sox had bullpen and mostly infield weakness and chose not address it.  Again, the calculation had to be why throw good money after bad.  But now we know that perhaps if Cora had some bats off the bench that could hit over .200, or some bullpen help other than Robles who was always playing with fire.  And then of course because they got low innings out of starters, the guys who were good in the first half were cooked.

So there are decisions to be made.  They have a great core, but they need to look at 1B, 2B, the OF in general, decide if Vazquez who can't call a game or frame pitches is the guy to go forward (hint, the Johnny Damon-armed Plawecki is not the answer).  They have a great set of starter candidates but they have to organizationally commit to playing like actual major leaguers - or pay "starters" about half as much and carry 8 4 innings guys.  But more realistically, they need a goal of getting into the 7th (can you believe that this is actually a measure of success?) with their starters.  Then they don't have to be so dependent on guys who are in the second tier of pitchers by definition as relivers.

The good news is these things can all be addressed.  The bad news is that Bloom is likely going to do more bargain shopping to fill those needs.  We'll see.

[MongoLikeSox]

Marte's power numbers had to have suffered due to playing in the big fields of Miami and Oakland. Other than stats, I've got almost no knowledge of how he plays and such.

This is going to be one weird off-season again. MLB and the Red Sox. The big decisions and unknowns just related to our outfield are big. We had some good outfield arms and it was a strength, but the errors and other miscues that did not count as errors at us up. Not one position on the field enjoyed a beginning to end solid defensive effort.

I do fear that Cora and Bloom think they are the reasons for this team doing se well. Lets not kid ourselves about the genius accolades of our Manager and GM. They got lucky as hell because the only ones left standing did their jobs very well. This team was on fumes and still found a way. No, they got rescued by some of the ones that got screwed. The lone position player decision left was 1B, and that didn't work out so well.

Whitlock was protected by medical and Pivetta was protected by promises kept until crunch time. Houck, Chavis, Dalbec, Darwinzon(a continuation), Duran, Franchy and Bazardo all got messed with and/or otherwise got misused. While we're here, let's add Jeter Downs to the list. He hit rock bottom and stayed there all season long instead of being moved down to Portland to get things right. I can't make this up. Before this season, Downs spent 12 games at AA. So he starts at AAA, hits a brick wall and they leave him there ALL FRIGGING SEASON????  Wow! Stunning development strategy. Let's see, was Bloom afraid that sending him back to pitching levels he could possibly fix things would make him look like a bad GM?

Anyone else whincing as Arroyo ran down the base paths thinking that if he pulls a hammy again, we get a combination of Santana/Arauz for the rest of the playoffs? Yeah, nice job with the Roster. Nice job with the youth development. We go into next season hoping Houck gets the 5th spot and that Bobby Dalbec can regain some sort of ressemblance to his mid-August to mid-September form before being benched. Sound somewhat familiar? Yeah, we went zero forward and had a crap roster all at once. Nope, my bad. We do have Whitlock, ho was thankfully protected by the medical staff.

Mongo,  it looks like there are some pitchers who have developed nicely in AA and AAA this year.  Feltman and Winchowski, and could see Boston sooner than later next year.
As far as Downs, that is a sad story.  He did hit four homers in his first two weeks in the Ariz fall league.  But his future, if he ever gets to MLB seems to be 2B.  But that position looks to be locked up by Yorke, who was the Sox minor league POY, batting .333.  He won't arrive until 2023, so imo Arroyo is the Bloom flavor of 2022.
I've got my doubts about Bloom getting aggressive.  He will not make Yankee/Toronto type acquisitions, more like Tampa like I'm afraid.

It does look like that on the pitching front. Looks like we'll see some next season. I've been keeping an eye on the minors all season.

I hope Bloom does NOT go for big dollar signings. We've signed some big money duds trying to keep up with the Yankees. I've cringed and whined so much in the past. I still get ruffled feathers when I remember reading of the Carl Crawford signing.

All that said, hanging the hopes of the team on project players before they load the truck for Spring Training is assinine. Three year declines are not happenstance. 2 years of OK numbers out of 7 years of horrible, ungawdly wretched numbers is not bad luck. It's a tradition of failure with 2 flashes in the pan seasons years back. I do not want to see another trending downwards dud be given key roles at the beginning of Spring Training EVER AGAIN. Getting quality ball players in the FA market does happen for OK money. Maybe he can ask his staff how they did it.

Watching quality players and bull pen arms fall off the board month after month to end up with the duds he got was frustrating as hell. No, that does not mean Marcus Semien should have been hunted down. It does mean that former batting champs who CAN play good defense should be looked at for medium money.

Same goes for bull pen arms. Yes, we will bomb 2 of 5 or something, but that happens. It's better than maybe getting one decent one for 1/3rd of the money.

Take a chance on a guy like Richards? Sure. Why not? That can't be the only card played only to be left with bringing back the guy you didn't want months ago after everyone said no thanks the past 2-4 months.

And why did we get this last off season? Because someone wanted to be over analytical and examine every path. You know what, Mr Bloom? It gets to the point where it becomes nothing more than an idiot like me not being able to make a purchasing decision because I forgot my meds. Just sayin'.

[Sea Dog 23]

A key piece to the 2022 roster may be coming more clear.  In about a week or so, JDM will be making his decision eknown on his opt out.  The early feel is that he will decline the opt out and return next year.  The story is the CBA has to be hammered out, if it goes badly and there is a long delay and a possible lockout by the owners, JD would have opted out and be a player without a team going into next season.  JD would seem to be the tipping point for who would be the DH, or holding up the move for Schwarber/Devers to be the DH.

Of course Devers and Bogey are going into their contract years, so their negotiations would be delayed by the CBA.  Will there be a reduction in QAs?  Will there be a change in the luxury tax levels?  Lots of variables at play.

[longgame]

The CBA appears it's going to be an issue and teams are already preparing for a lockout.  This isn't good.  Of course it always frustrates me that guys who play a game get more money than ever to play less than ever, especially starting pitchers, but also every day players who used to play every game.  It also is frustrating that millionaires are fighting with billionaires and in the end it means higher ticket prices and higher subscription costs to related products. 

Let's hope baseball doesn't shoot itself in the foot again. 

[Sea Dog 23]

Ted, it was announced last week the MLB owners will now be charged for the housing of all minor league players. Some of those players in the minors were complaining of mental health issues all around the time of covid. 

The owners did vote unanimously for the housing.  But I'm sure the owners will pass that along as higher ticket prices, bigger premium for broadcast rights, player contract skimming, etc.  All that distraction coming together at the wrong time.

[longgame]

Seem to be a lot of issues at play.  I had heard that about the minor leaguers but to me the problem is simple - the players want more of the revenue that the owners are earning.  What's ridiculous of course is that they're earning that much off the people in the first place and arguing over how to split the pie.  At the same time the players want more, they want to play less.  The problem is that they are paying too much money to the wrong people - I just can't make the case for a guy who plays for 5 innings in 25 games in a good year is worth more than $10M.  But the going rate is $30M.  It is utterly absurd to give someone a 12 year contract worth a half a billion dollars to a guy who won't be able to play effectively for the last 4 years of that deal.  It gets more money to the aging player, far less to the guys who contribute and that needs to change. 

Either way though, millionaires and billionaires fighting over the money we fans give to them is never a winning move. 

Good article here - https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-cba-negotiations-seven-important-questions-as-baseball-work-stoppage-appears-likely-this-winter/

[Sea Dog 23]

In an ESPN article, predominantly focusing on the post-2022 status of Devers and Bogaerts, says the Sox will work hard to extend Devers.  Bogaerts said he plans to opt out of his 6 year $20mil deal after next season, but would like to finish his career in Boston. (( In other words, "sign me to something closer to $30mil".))

Boston will face a decision on Kyle Schwarber, who expressed interest in coming back to Boston. Bloom said the feeling was mutual and that the team is not worried about his ability to adapt to a potentially bigger role at first base.

"We played some of our best baseball with Kyle learning that position on the fly," Bloom said. "I think we saw him get better a time went on."

Bloom and company will also need to decide the future of Christian Vazquez, whom the team holds a club option.

Boston also let go of first base coach Tom Goodwin, who was in charge of outfield defense and baserunning. Goodwin did not finish the season with the team due to his unvaccinated status and MLB guidelines, but Bloom said that did not factor into the team's decision to let go of the coach, who's worked in Boston since the 2018 season.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32473690/boston-red-sox-evaluate-futures-cornerstone-players-rafael-devers-xander-bogaerts

[Sea Dog 23]

Some more reported news ahead of the "work stoppage" on Dec 1.  There may be a rush to sign free-agents at present contract values instead of waiting for the new economics to hit after a lockout/walkout.

Justin Leger from NBCSports tabbed Marcus Semien as Boston's "top free agent fit", then listed these pitchers in order:Robbie Ray, Stroman, Graveman, Hand, R. Iglesias (former LAA), Gausman. 

Shaughnessey also said the Sox won't be willing to pay ERod and Schwarber enough to keep them. (If true, that foreshadows signing any top pitchers or position players this winter -- if there even is a free agent market pending a strike/lockout.)

[MongoLikeSox]

Sea Dog, thanks for the link to the article.

MLB is in the worst shape I've ever seen it. It's worse than it was in that last strike year. I'm ashamed to be a fan at times. I'm not naive. This isn't a non-profit organization. That "proposal" is pure Rob Manfred. He broke the Umpires, broke the minor league franchisees and he's about to break Tony Clark again. Remember last time when Tony Clark looked beat to a pulp and Manfred was brimming ear to ear? He broke down Tony Clark like a Shotgun and left him laying open like a boot-top. It was brutal, and the only way it's going to get better is for the players to say no and get ready for a long rest.

That said, the players association will never allow for a system that makes sense. Seinfeld was right. We're rooting for laundry. A system is what it's going to take. The non-tender system is a crock. The Free Agent system is a crock 10 ways to Sunday, starting with seniority control on up to stupid long term big money deals. I can't say that restricting player movement is a bad thing. BUT, that can't COST players. They will never agree to a structured wage system. Can't blame them. Imagine the stat padding? Every year would be like a pending FA walk year, and forget any chance of these boy scout owners not wringing every drip of blood into their banks.

Did you guys know that a MLB player is not fully tenured until their 10th anniversary? Who the hell does that anymore? Not many. A team decides they don't want to pay some midling, but productive player a few million they earned - poof. Just non tender. Thanks for playing, get out. It's brutal enough just to be an OK player. To get it taken out from you for accounting reasons? That's a bad system hard at work.