Red Sox injuries.

[elktonnick]

The Red Sox seem bedeviled by more than their fair share of injuries. Why? I have been a long time believer in the Mike Marshal School of pitching that the cutter and slider are bad pitches for most pitchers long term health. Since the advent of both pitches it seems a higher percentage of pitchers are out due to a wide variety of ailments affecting their pitching arms than in years ago.
Position players also seem more prone to injury now than then. Why?

I have long believed that the Red Sox have a fundamentally flawed approach to both hitting and pitching.  Let me now add physical conditioning. Back in the day when my father coached baseball and teaching me the game he felt weight training and even swimming was antithetical to baseball conditioning.  Coaches in his day, believed in flexibility.  He thought muscle bound hitters may hit home runs but struck out too much and were prone to injury because their bodies were not aligned properly. 

I haven't done much research on the subject but all I can say is two of my daughters are gymnastics coaches both in their forties, one is a tri athlete and none have suffered from hamstring injuries that have affected their ability to be physically active. 

My overall point is that I believe there should be more discussion on the whole state of baseball's approach toward physical conditioning.  And oh by the way ban the cutter!

[Sea Dog 23]

elk, that’s a great analysis of questions the coaches need to be asking.  Couple that with Bloom signing older pitchers like Hill, Wacha, extending Barnes, are perplexing.  Sale should be serviceable in a different world, but he probably listens to nobody when it comes to staying in good shape/health.

[elktonnick]

Watch old films of Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams.  Watch the way the walked and moved  I do not think either ever lifted weights. 

[longgame]

Watch old films of Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams.  Watch the way the walked and moved  I do not think either ever lifted weights.

And Ted seemed to be able to twist his body like a corkscrew.  Those guys were flexible and strong.  Of course Williams also missed a ton of time due to illness because he wasn't in great shape.  There's a middle ground of course.

I'm amazed that somehow JBJ, Franchy and Dalbec never seem to get hurt but all the guys who can at least get a hit to save their lives are injured all the time. 

[Pumpsie Green]

elk, that’s a great analysis of questions the coaches need to be asking.  Couple that with Bloom signing older pitchers like Hill, Wacha, extending Barnes, are perplexing.  Sale should be serviceable in a different world, but he probably listens to nobody when it comes to staying in good shape/health.

Its not really perplexing when taken in the context of Henry's stated objective  to reign in expenses. I mean, he is only worth $3.5B dollars. Hard to imagine how someone could survive on so little.

[longgame]

LOL Pumpsie.  He'll have to cut down on the caviar. 

[markj]

elk, that’s a great analysis of questions the coaches need to be asking.  Couple that with Bloom signing older pitchers like Hill, Wacha, extending Barnes, are perplexing.  Sale should be serviceable in a different world, but he probably listens to nobody when it comes to staying in good shape/health.

Its not really perplexing when taken in the context of Henry's stated objective  to reign in expenses. I mean, he is only worth $3.5B dollars. Hard to imagine how someone could survive on so little.

His yacht doesn't fall into the Mega-Yacht category. He needs to fix that, so you have to save where you can. Priorities, you know.

[MongoLikeSox]

On the fitness front, I'm afraid that's what it takes for many because of modern demands. Raw power. The whole games revolves around it. Power pitchers against power hitters. There is very little room for a .300 hitter that can only hit 6 HR anymore. No room for 90MPH cheese unless they can pitch like Greg Maddux or some devastating breaking ball for a relief pitcher. Still, with the latter, the harder they throw it, the better they are.

The fall out is what we get. Shortened careers like Nomar's and who knows hoe many more like his. Better than never getting to the show because you're only 5-10" or something. Beef up, make the show. Beef up more, hit 25 dingers, make money. Do it for 4 years and you make serious money. Hit 5 HRs 3 straight years and you're shining the pine or worse, getting your real estate license. I very much imagine if that sort of writing was on the wall that I might take the beef up approach. Would not have mattered for me, though. Ted Williams had 20-10 vision. I had coke bottle glasses.

[Sea Dog 23]

Ted Williams and Willie Mays did not do any power lifting in those days because few athletes did.  I have a friend who played college football in the ACC, early 1960s.  They did not do any power stuff, maybe some arm curls.  A lot of their training was stuff like pulling a towel against your foot.

[elktonnick]

I think Pedroia also had 20/ 10 vision. Most of the power hitters of the past Aaron, Mays etc were not bulked up by weight training.  Proper mechanics and quick strong wrists were the key to Williams success as well as his exceptional eyesight.

[elktonnick]

Ted Williams and Willie Mays did not do any power lifting in those days because few athletes did.  I have a friend who played college football in the ACC, early 1960s.  They did not do any power stuff, maybe some arm curls.  A lot of their training was stuff like pulling a towel against your foot.

One reasons they did not have the equipment was the prevailing wisdom in baseball was against being muscle bound.

[SeaBeachFred]

The Red Sox seem bedeviled by more than their fair share of injuries. Why? I have been a long time believer in the Mike Marshal School of pitching that the cutter and slider are bad pitches for most pitchers long term health. Since the advent of both pitches it seems a higher percentage of pitchers are out due to a wide variety of ailments affecting their pitching arms than in years ago.
Position players also seem more prone to injury now than then. Why?

I have long believed that the Red Sox have a fundamentally flawed approach to both hitting and pitching.  Let me now add physical conditioning. Back in the day when my father coached baseball and teaching me the game he felt weight training and even swimming was antithetical to baseball conditioning.  Coaches in his day, believed in flexibility.  He thought muscle bound hitters may hit home runs but struck out too much and were prone to injury because their bodies were not aligned properly. 

I haven't done much research on the subject but all I can say is two of my daughters are gymnastics coaches both in their forties, one is a tri athlete and none have suffered from hamstring injuries that have affected their ability to be physically active. 

My overall point is that I believe there should be more discussion on the whole state of baseball's approach toward physical conditioning.  And oh by the way ban the cutter!

Yes Elk, ban the cutter and try to go back to the day when weights were hardly used and if so only moderately by a player either on his own time or light weights that might be available.  The heavy weight training builds tight taut muscles that lead to pulls, tears and long periods of inaction.  Any of you ever heard of Mays, Aaron, F. Robinson, Kaline, or Howard getting hamstring injuries?   I'll answer that for you......NO YOU DIDN'T BECAUSE THEY NEVER GOT THEM.  Neither did Banks, Rose, Yaz, etc.  I'm going to be 82 in October and I never use a weight over 40 pounds.  I ride a stationary bike for between 1 to 2 hours.  I have never gotten a hammie and haven't had a tear since 1972 and that was from trying to stretch to excess.  Whatever the Red Sox are doing isn't working and we're headed for our fifth cellar finish in the last 11 years and that is disgusting and an indictment on the whole damn organization.

[SeaBeachFred]

elk, that’s a great analysis of questions the coaches need to be asking.  Couple that with Bloom signing older pitchers like Hill, Wacha, extending Barnes, are perplexing.  Sale should be serviceable in a different world, but he probably listens to nobody when it comes to staying in good shape/health.

Bloom could be indicted for signing long in the tooth pitchers last Fall, but there is enough evidence to go around that cast a light on others who share the dock in the court of stupidity.  Let's not let Prune Face off the hook.  No matter how you slice it the guy has since the end of 2018 become a tight wad bastard with his money.  In 2019 worrying about his payroll getting to heavy, he fired Dan Dombrowski because Dan thought with proper extensions the team composition from 2018 could be sustained with careful adding of pieces to keep the wheel moving.  Nothing like that was done and yesterday we had a starter in the outfield who had been released by two or three teams and DFA'd by us.  Rejected by all other 29 teams, he was not only kept but was brought up to stink up our team even more making us little more than a shit show.

[SeaBeachFred]

elk, that’s a great analysis of questions the coaches need to be asking.  Couple that with Bloom signing older pitchers like Hill, Wacha, extending Barnes, are perplexing.  Sale should be serviceable in a different world, but he probably listens to nobody when it comes to staying in good shape/health.

Its not really perplexing when taken in the context of Henry's stated objective  to reign in expenses. I mean, he is only worth $3.5B dollars. Hard to imagine how someone could survive on so little.

Not perplexing to me at all Pumpsie, but there seems to be a reluctance on the part of a couple of our colleagues to put any blame on Henry's parsimoniousness.  The guy has become a cheap bastard and is hiring of Bloom to run BO and to bring pack that FRC as manager speaks volumes of his failings the past few years as an owner.

[elktonnick]

Fred I recently reviewed what Fenway Sports Group has been up to.  In December Henry finalized the deal to buy controlling interest in the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Boston sports media that Henry has become heavily involved in efforts to get LeBron James an NBA franchise.  All of this talk that Henry has told Kennedy and Bloom to cut expenses coincide with Henry's effort to buy NHL and NBA franchises and after his failed efforts to create a super league for European Soccer. Where has the money come from to buy NHL and NBA teams.  I suspect that Henry is leveraging both the Red Sox and Liverpool to finance his expansion into these other sports.  I suspect that is why he wants to cut expenses so he has a good looking balance sheet to get the funds needed to buy these other teams.