Bloom should go

[elktonnick]

The disastrous consequences of letting Schwarber go and trading Renfroe are grounds enough to fire Bloom.  However, his biggest failure was his inability to get quality bullpen arms.  Bloom is determined to remake Boston in the image of Tampa Bay.  At this the Red Sox will be averaging 10 000 per game just like the Rays.

[Sea Dog 23]

The disastrous consequences of letting Schwarber go and trading Renfroe are grounds enough to fire Bloom.  However, his biggest failure was his inability to get quality bullpen arms.  Bloom is determined to remake Boston in the image of Tampa Bay.  At this the Red Sox will be averaging 10 000 per game just like the Rays.

Trying to become the Rays is an insult to Tampa Bay.  They are a quality, every year contender.  Way better coaching and scouting than Boston.

[longgame]

I have to agree.  The Sox are about to have a fan uprising on their hands.  They've mismanaged this team at every level and in every way possible since fielding their best team ever in 2018.  They shy away from big contracts in a league where big contracts make the game.  John Henry and company have made the mistake for a long time for thinking they make the market, not realizing that the players make it.  Look at Soto.  Look at some of the other huge contracts that are out there.  That's where the game is.  The Yankees manage to put a home run hitting all star at every position, while the Sox hope one of the three guys who can hit is coming out of his latest slump.  They make bad long term contracts and don't strike gold on the small ones.  Just failure after failure.

With the current lineup, I don't know what to think anymore.  What happened to Arroyo?  Why was Story not on the IL for a week until Friday?  Why do guys have small injuries and disappear for months?  Why are guys like Beeks and Springs, who couldn't get an out in Boston, shutting us down when we face the Rays?  Why is Martin Perez a bum here and a stud in Texas?

This team is a total mess.  Between them and the Panthers I can't wait for hockey season.

[elktonnick]

I think one  of the reasons for the Sox woes is they have rejected long time basic baseball fundamentals.  Their collective approach toward hitting drives Hall of Famer Jim Rice nuts.  Their approach towards pitching drives Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley crazy.  They are a team without a leader and Cora is adopting more and more the Alfred E. Newman "What me worry"  school of management.  Henry is becoming more and more an owner who does not want to invest in a quality on the field product.  He will be literally giving away tickets to attract fans at this rate.  Henry needs to understand that his real competition isn't the Yankees but the Bruins, Celtics, and Patriots.

[SeaBeachFred]

I think one  of the reasons for the Sox woes is they have rejected long time basic baseball fundamentals.  Their collective approach toward hitting drives Hall of Famer Jim Rice nuts.  Their approach towards pitching drives Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley crazy.  They are a team without a leader and Cora is adopting more and more the Alfred E. Newman "What me worry"  school of management.  Henry is becoming more and more an owner who does not want to invest in a quality on the field product.  He will be literally giving away tickets to attract fans at this rate.  Henry needs to understand that his real competition isn't the Yankees but the Bruins, Celtics, and Patriots.

Elk, when Hall of Fame slugger Jim Rice and Hall of Famer Dennis Eckersley talk, you would think Cora, Bloom and Henry  would listen.  Rice was a power hitter but when he got a high strike he didn't launch angle it but hit down and level and roped one extra base hit after another;  Eck knew getting ahead of the batter was paramount to establish himself with the advantage over a hitter b getting ahead of the count. Very rarely did he nibble and that one time I remember it cost him the first game of the '88 World Series when he had to face Kirk Gibson after walking a batter with two outs.  But Elk, I guess no one is listening to them.  Cora should because either he or his batting and pitching coaches seem in a trance to make the changes in approach both on the hill and in the batter's box to make any kind of a difference.  Maybe if Red Sox fans develop some balls they will boycott the games and refuse to watch this shitshow on television.  I'm doing my small part my friend.......I have postponed two trips to Boston this year because I want to see smart, winning baseball not a bunch odf clowns in action and led by a pack jerks who are driving out team into the ditch.

[MongoLikeSox]

On Arroyo, he has some sort of groin injury. Kind of got ignored because of so much else going on.

I was never for the Schwarber deal. I was wrong. He turned out to be a great offensively. On re-signing him for good money? Not for me.  While he is leading the league in Home Runs, he's violating every argument we're railing the Red Sox about for hitting approach. He's only hitting .208 and has whopping 120K's in 90 games. He's going to blast away his career high in K's. Come October when the air is cool and the pitching is great, he's become even less a factor. I'm not even going to bring up defense.

Imagine Bobby Dalbec playing in Philly and giving free reign to strike out as often as it takes to hit a homer aver 5 days?

The Bloom should go? I've not decided yet. Let's see how he digs himself out of this mess. An early sign might be day-2 of the draft. Quite a few polished college relievers. Doesn't do us any good this year, but it might help starting in 2024.

[longgame]

On Arroyo, he has some sort of groin injury. Kind of got ignored because of so much else going on.

I was never for the Schwarber deal. I was wrong. He turned out to be a great offensively. On re-signing him for good money? Not for me.  While he is leading the league in Home Runs, he's violating every argument we're railing the Red Sox about for hitting approach. He's only hitting .208 and has whopping 120K's in 90 games. He's going to blast away his career high in K's. Come October when the air is cool and the pitching is great, he's become even less a factor. I'm not even going to bring up defense.

Imagine Bobby Dalbec playing in Philly and giving free reign to strike out as often as it takes to hit a homer aver 5 days?

The Bloom should go? I've not decided yet. Let's see how he digs himself out of this mess. An early sign might be day-2 of the draft. Quite a few polished college relievers. Doesn't do us any good this year, but it might help starting in 2024.

I don't see how signing a guy in the 7th round who may be able to play in 5 years is going to save Bloom.  He needs to respond decisively one way or another - either go all in on getting a lot of help now, or freeing up salary so they can go after guys in the offseason.  I fear he's going to do half of the latter - get rid of guys and then try to field a low payroll team.  That of course would make Devers look elsewhere to which is probably part of the plan.  There just hasn't been much competence shown by Bloom at all and it's getting tired.

[MongoLikeSox]

On Arroyo, he has some sort of groin injury. Kind of got ignored because of so much else going on.

I was never for the Schwarber deal. I was wrong. He turned out to be a great offensively. On re-signing him for good money? Not for me.  While he is leading the league in Home Runs, he's violating every argument we're railing the Red Sox about for hitting approach. He's only hitting .208 and has whopping 120K's in 90 games. He's going to blast away his career high in K's. Come October when the air is cool and the pitching is great, he's become even less a factor. I'm not even going to bring up defense.

Imagine Bobby Dalbec playing in Philly and giving free reign to strike out as often as it takes to hit a homer aver 5 days?

The Bloom should go? I've not decided yet. Let's see how he digs himself out of this mess. An early sign might be day-2 of the draft. Quite a few polished college relievers. Doesn't do us any good this year, but it might help starting in 2024.

I don't see how signing a guy in the 7th round who may be able to play in 5 years is going to save Bloom.  He needs to respond decisively one way or another - either go all in on getting a lot of help now, or freeing up salary so they can go after guys in the offseason.  I fear he's going to do half of the latter - get rid of guys and then try to field a low payroll team.  That of course would make Devers look elsewhere to which is probably part of the plan.  There just hasn't been much competence shown by Bloom at all and it's getting tired.

I was referring to a philosophical change and now understanding how relief itching is actually important. Nothing yesterday saves him. The next two weeks might, though. TBD. Alas, he needs more than just a couple more arms now. 

[Sea Dog 23]

I think Bloom believes he’s the smartest man in the room.  And he’ll show everybody that next week.  The Yanks will do the unthinkable and trade with the Nats for Soto. Then Bloom will trade with the Nats for 1B Josh Bell. He is bored, has to do something, and that’s how he finishes this year.

[SeaBeachFred]

Right now I'm reading for the second time "HOME GROWN", the Red Sox story of building the next great Boston team,  that of our 2018 Champions.  What we're seeing now is the total deconstruction of  that method of building and perhaps a desperation move to redo what we did between 2016-2018 to finally get us looking like a real ball club instead of a doddering bunch of clowns. Back in our second last place finish in a row in 2015, prune face hired Dave Dombrowski to become head of Baseball Operations and he inherited some good young players drafted that might be ready to roll.  However, unlike Ben Cherington who tended to hoard prospects for fear of their going elsewhere and coming back to haunt the Red Sox on some other team.  Dan decided we had a chance to win sooner than later and wound up signing lefty David Price as an expensive free agent for the 2016 season and then Chris Sale for he 2017 season.  He had to trade away a bunch of prospects that we didn't miss because we already had their replacements in the lineup by 2017----Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Vazquez, Devers,etc.  Adding those two pitchers and then signing JD Martinez before the 2018 season  told everyone that we would sacrifice down the  road in need be to finally get back over the hump.  The result 2018?

In 2019 for reasons only he knows, owner John Henry started deconstructing the team by putting Betts up for sale, hired Chaim Bloom, a Cherington type for collecting and hoarding prospects.  In 2020 Betts was traded away and Benintendi soon followed.  You see the result to today for that way of thinking.  Now there are rumblings that the prune wants to win again and is getting tired of seeing his shitshow look like the clowns they are. Henry has done this before; can't seem to make up his damned mind which way he wants to go.  What he has to do is get rid of Bloom and then Cora and decide as a big market team that such a scenario screams for a winner and no the turd team we have now.  The question for me is has he learned anything from his s tupidity of the past?

[MongoLikeSox]

Right now I'm reading for the second time "HOME GROWN", the Red Sox story of building the next great Boston team,  that of our 2018 Champions.  What we're seeing now is the total deconstruction of  that method of building and perhaps a desperation move to redo what we did between 2016-2018 to finally get us looking like a real ball club instead of a doddering bunch of clowns. Back in our second last place finish in a row in 2015, prune face hired Dave Dombrowski to become head of Baseball Operations and he inherited some good young players drafted that might be ready to roll.  However, unlike Ben Cherington who tended to hoard prospects for fear of their going elsewhere and coming back to haunt the Red Sox on some other team.  Dan decided we had a chance to win sooner than later and wound up signing lefty David Price as an expensive free agent for the 2016 season and then Chris Sale for he 2017 season.  He had to trade away a bunch of prospects that we didn't miss because we already had their replacements in the lineup by 2017----Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Vazquez, Devers,etc.  Adding those two pitchers and then signing JD Martinez before the 2018 season  told everyone that we would sacrifice down the  road in need be to finally get back over the hump.  The result 2018?

In 2019 for reasons only he knows, owner John Henry started deconstructing the team by putting Betts up for sale, hired Chaim Bloom, a Cherington type for collecting and hoarding prospects.  In 2020 Betts was traded away and Benintendi soon followed.  You see the result to today for that way of thinking.  Now there are rumblings that the prune wants to win again and is getting tired of seeing his shitshow look like the clowns they are. Henry has done this before; can't seem to make up his damned mind which way he wants to go.  What he has to do is get rid of Bloom and then Cora and decide as a big market team that such a scenario screams for a winner and no the turd team we have now.  The question for me is has he learned anything from his s tupidity of the past?

Seeing Benny and Betts leave is kind of like watching Haywood Sullivan get rid of Fisk and Lynn about 40 years ago. A couple big differences, sure, but just as painful to see. Still stings, actually. This modern-day version was just as avoidable as it was back then.

Longgame was talking about it on a different thread. A big player leaving the environment they excelled in is bad for all parties, yet they can't even come close to a solution. Imagine if they solved that issue in an equitable manner? Pfffft, cats and dogs living together and A's selling seats kind of odd happenings. They're plenty of people who want that, too. Instead, we'll get what's going to happen over the next two weeks.   

[longgame]

Right now I'm reading for the second time "HOME GROWN", the Red Sox story of building the next great Boston team,  that of our 2018 Champions.  What we're seeing now is the total deconstruction of  that method of building and perhaps a desperation move to redo what we did between 2016-2018 to finally get us looking like a real ball club instead of a doddering bunch of clowns. Back in our second last place finish in a row in 2015, prune face hired Dave Dombrowski to become head of Baseball Operations and he inherited some good young players drafted that might be ready to roll.  However, unlike Ben Cherington who tended to hoard prospects for fear of their going elsewhere and coming back to haunt the Red Sox on some other team.  Dan decided we had a chance to win sooner than later and wound up signing lefty David Price as an expensive free agent for the 2016 season and then Chris Sale for he 2017 season.  He had to trade away a bunch of prospects that we didn't miss because we already had their replacements in the lineup by 2017----Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Vazquez, Devers,etc.  Adding those two pitchers and then signing JD Martinez before the 2018 season  told everyone that we would sacrifice down the  road in need be to finally get back over the hump.  The result 2018?

In 2019 for reasons only he knows, owner John Henry started deconstructing the team by putting Betts up for sale, hired Chaim Bloom, a Cherington type for collecting and hoarding prospects.  In 2020 Betts was traded away and Benintendi soon followed.  You see the result to today for that way of thinking.  Now there are rumblings that the prune wants to win again and is getting tired of seeing his shitshow look like the clowns they are. Henry has done this before; can't seem to make up his damned mind which way he wants to go.  What he has to do is get rid of Bloom and then Cora and decide as a big market team that such a scenario screams for a winner and no the turd team we have now.  The question for me is has he learned anything from his s tupidity of the past?

Seeing Benny and Betts leave is kind of like watching Haywood Sullivan get rid of Fisk and Lynn about 40 years ago. A couple big differences, sure, but just as painful to see. Still stings, actually. This modern-day version was just as avoidable as it was back then.

Longgame was talking about it on a different thread. A big player leaving the environment they excelled in is bad for all parties, yet they can't even come close to a solution. Imagine if they solved that issue in an equitable manner? Pfffft, cats and dogs living together and A's selling seats kind of odd happenings. They're plenty of people who want that, too. Instead, we'll get what's going to happen over the next two weeks.

It's funny you mention Fisk and Lynn because I was thinking of them in this same context.  Who have the Sox developed and kept since then?  Rice because they were probably afraid of what he'd do if they traded him.  Clemens was in the "twilight of his career".  Nomar of course had run the course of his usefulness.  Lester was traded and had good years after.  Not saying they should have kept any of them, but who have the Sox developed and kept?  Pedey?  It seems like if he stayed healthy they would have traded him at some point.  Seems to be a big problem and I never understood the idea about gambling on a free agent when you have someone you know already.

[SeaBeachFred]

Right now I'm reading for the second time "HOME GROWN", the Red Sox story of building the next great Boston team,  that of our 2018 Champions.  What we're seeing now is the total deconstruction of  that method of building and perhaps a desperation move to redo what we did between 2016-2018 to finally get us looking like a real ball club instead of a doddering bunch of clowns. Back in our second last place finish in a row in 2015, prune face hired Dave Dombrowski to become head of Baseball Operations and he inherited some good young players drafted that might be ready to roll.  However, unlike Ben Cherington who tended to hoard prospects for fear of their going elsewhere and coming back to haunt the Red Sox on some other team.  Dan decided we had a chance to win sooner than later and wound up signing lefty David Price as an expensive free agent for the 2016 season and then Chris Sale for he 2017 season.  He had to trade away a bunch of prospects that we didn't miss because we already had their replacements in the lineup by 2017----Betts, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Vazquez, Devers,etc.  Adding those two pitchers and then signing JD Martinez before the 2018 season  told everyone that we would sacrifice down the  road in need be to finally get back over the hump.  The result 2018?

In 2019 for reasons only he knows, owner John Henry started deconstructing the team by putting Betts up for sale, hired Chaim Bloom, a Cherington type for collecting and hoarding prospects.  In 2020 Betts was traded away and Benintendi soon followed.  You see the result to today for that way of thinking.  Now there are rumblings that the prune wants to win again and is getting tired of seeing his shitshow look like the clowns they are. Henry has done this before; can't seem to make up his damned mind which way he wants to go.  What he has to do is get rid of Bloom and then Cora and decide as a big market team that such a scenario screams for a winner and no the turd team we have now.  The question for me is has he learned anything from his s tupidity of the past?

Seeing Benny and Betts leave is kind of like watching Haywood Sullivan get rid of Fisk and Lynn about 40 years ago. A couple big differences, sure, but just as painful to see. Still stings, actually. This modern-day version was just as avoidable as it was back then.

Longgame was talking about it on a different thread. A big player leaving the environment they excelled in is bad for all parties, yet they can't even come close to a solution. Imagine if they solved that issue in an equitable manner? Pfffft, cats and dogs living together and A's selling seats kind of odd happenings. They're plenty of people who want that, too. Instead, we'll get what's going to happen over the next two weeks.

It's funny you mention Fisk and Lynn because I was thinking of them in this same context.  Who have the Sox developed and kept since then?  Rice because they were probably afraid of what he'd do if they traded him.  Clemens was in the "twilight of his career".  Nomar of course had run the course of his usefulness.  Lester was traded and had good years after.  Not saying they should have kept any of them, but who have the Sox developed and kept?  Pedey?  It seems like if he stayed healthy they would have traded him at some point.  Seems to be a big problem and I never understood the idea about gambling on a free agent when you have someone you know already.

Funny too from my vantage point such as it is because for a team that has won four titles in this century our front office and owners have had a remarkable ability to make one screw up after another with our players where contracts are concerned and still manage to land on their feet  with some inordinate amount of luck.  John Henry should start thinking that his luck might just run out if he doesn't start hiring the best coaches he can, especially in developing and shaping pitchers and picks the right prospects to promote to the big club instead of the wrong ones.  We don't need any more miserable hitters like Jackie Bradley, miserable pitchers like Matt Barnes and some of the others we have rolled our eyes after watching them perform like bozos for us over the years.

[MongoLikeSox]

Lester was a front office blunder. They offered him something way too low and it backfired. Letting Dombrowski take Betts to Arbitration spoiled Mookie on any possibility of signing an extension and staying with Boston.

We're lucky Big Papi decided he didn't want to go anywhere with the low-ball contracts he got. They almost dared him to go. Yet they have no problem with more money per year deals with free agent busts galore. Stupid signings. It's so backwards from where it should be.

The Fisk debacle is legendary. He didn't want to go anywhere. They made Haywood make a deal, but he had the secretary famously "forget" to send him the contract by some important date. The rest is history. I don't know why they felt the need to trade Lynn or what the deal was.

I agree on Nomar. I thought the same for Clemens, but Clemens got juiced after he left. I didn't see that coming.

Boggs was another one. He had an agreement already, but Mrs Yawkey passed and management changed. And what they let Burks go for under that management is too disgusting to type.

These ownership blunders are some bad Red Sox DNA. I see Henry after the 20 year period before him and think he's a huge improvement, despite the deficiencies.

[SeaBeachFred]

There should be some good news for me in the coming days unless I have trouble getting there.  In about five hours I will be heading to Cooperstown via Chicago and Albany for the induction of our great champion David Ortiz into the Hall of Fame.  It will at least for a few days make me forget where our team is today and how out of sorts our front office and coaching staff, along with our players  have been this season.  Big Papi brings back mostly great memories of our teams back in his day if we can forget for a moment the end of 2011, the Bobby Valentine disaster of 2012 and Larry Lucchino's low balling of Jon Lester in the Spring of 2014 that tumbled us down from a defending champion to two last place finishes.  Then again, I guess those things happened with Papi as well which makes me think the ownership and front office were screwing up then too.  At any rate I hope when I get back on the 27th there is some improvement with our team even though I won't be holding my breath for it.   Take care guys and keep this board rolling; we have the best baseball people on it and make almost all the others look amateur in comparison.