Pitchers to watch this season?

[Sea Dog 23]

The pitcher log jam may be moving.  Phils got Nola for 6/$150m as several are projecting, although the Braves outbid Philly.  The Mets are expected to deal for Yamamoto as early as next week for as much as 10/$250.  The Mets seem to have a bottomless money pit.

That would put the Sox in line for their favorite Montgomery, some are projecting 6/$135-150m.  The Yanks or Rangers may decide to bump up the bidding for Montgomery as you might expect.

[MongoLikeSox]

The MLB site says Nolla staying still for 7 years, $172M. Two of the last 3 years in the mid 4.00's ERA a little scary, but he has not missed a start since 2017.

I didn't think there was any way that someone was not going to go mega-heavy handed and outbid the pack by a ton for Yamamoto. Mets of Giants has been my guess for a while. Glad they are not all waiting for the Ohtani circus to end first.

[SeaBeachFred]

In the meantime we are once again running in place----or is it backwards?  OK, we have lost Nola and Dombrowski once again put one over on us and the rest of his competitors.   Now when are we going to put up and get us those two starters we need so badly?  Again, I have lost confidence in that bunch of dumb dumbs we have running the show.  I want to see something tangible done by the end of the month.  No more dumpster diving.

[Sea Dog 23]

In the meantime we are once again running in place----or is it backwards?  OK, we have lost Nola and Dombrowski once again put one over on us and the rest of his competitors.   Now when are we going to put up and get us those two starters we need so badly?  Again, I have lost confidence in that bunch of dumb dumbs we have running the show.  I want to see something tangible done by the end of the month.  No more dumpster diving.

Keep the faith, Fred.  The more you listen to this Breslow guy, he sounds like the smartest guy in the room.  I'm still deciphering his term "circular logic".  Anyhoo, I think his first pitcher comes in a trade.  He's been dropping hints that prospects are disposable.  What about Romero, Yorke OR  Verdugo and Wickleman G. for the White Sox' Dylan Cease?  I see the Dodgers are exploring that trade too.  Breslow may use reverse logic to trick all those GMs into big mistakes.  HA HA.

[SeaBeachFred]

In the meantime we are once again running in place----or is it backwards?  OK, we have lost Nola and Dombrowski once again put one over on us and the rest of his competitors.   Now when are we going to put up and get us those two starters we need so badly?  Again, I have lost confidence in that bunch of dumb dumbs we have running the show.  I want to see something tangible done by the end of the month.  No more dumpster diving.

Keep the faith, Fred.  The more you listen to this Breslow guy, he sounds like the smartest guy in the room.  I'm still deciphering his term "circular logic".  Anyhoo, I think his first pitcher comes in a trade.  He's been dropping hints that prospects are disposable.  What about Romero, Yorke OR  Verdugo and Wickleman G. for the White Sox' Dylan Cease?  I see the Dodgers are exploring that trade too.  Breslow may use reverse logic to trick all those GMs into big mistakes.  HA HA.

Not Yorke.  He can be our future second baseman for a long time and we need one there very badly considering what we were putting out there the last part of the season.  I like Verdugo but Cora doesn't and we all should know by now that Alexz has his favorites and damn it to hell, he will play them as he has the past few seasons.  He's as good as gone.  Romero and Winkleman are fine for trades.  I will have to hold out agreeing with you on this "smartest man in the room" stuff about Breslow.  We have seen this attitude on the past of Cora, Bloom and the rest of the front office turn our beloved team into a mass of garbage.  At any rate, you make some good points Sea Dog.  Maybe you' re on to something; certainly hope you're right on this one.

[Sea Dog 23]

As of Monday Yamamoto has been posted.  The Sox are on the clock, they've scouted YY for over a year   I think if they strike early, they can sign this guy.  If they wait around like the last couple off-seasons, and allow the bidding to grow, they will have to move on to lesser commodities.

Last year the Sox big rival NYY outspent Boston by $90mil in payroll.  Getting fair to middling pitching isn't going to move the needle on getting from 5th to 2nd or 3rd in the East.  Yes, the Mets and Rangers are going to screw up the market with their obnoxious spending.  But likely the Rangers, having won the title, and San Diego, who seem to be trying to cut payroll, will give the Sox an opening.  In any event the next week to ten days will show if the Sox have any fight, or are they all bluster?

Interesting article by Buster Olney this week, questioning whether Boston has a market problem,
"... there is an ebb and flow to which markets are most desirable -- who would have guessed five years ago that Texas would become a destination place for pitchers? -- and right now, some agents privately say that Boston will have to overcome its reputation as a tough place to play. For some of the elite pitchers, the Red Sox might be way down the line for preferences. Boston would have to be ultra-aggressive with offers to be in play for some of the best available pitchers.”

[MongoLikeSox]

Fred, I'm big on Yorke, too. I hope they start him in Worcester next season. Something would need to happen with Valdez, though, and I can't see that with his defense.

I thought last year's crop of FA starters was awful. I thought the best thing we didn't do was that we didn't jump on that boat. Especially the top end. This year is different. Plenty of pitchers, but the demand is massive. Probably nets us the same as last season.

The team does not deserve the best pitchers. Not until we #1: Play defense and #2: stop the way we manage the pitching game from upstairs.

Olney's right, although he's miles away from original thought, a blowhard and a Yankees' fanboy. Who wants to sign for a team that doesn't respect the role of starting pitching AND kills relief pitchers like they were expendable commodities? Yeah, Tampa's good for killing some arms, but they at least improve pitchers should they survive their stay. 

Is this really the year we ante up to the FA and trade pitching tables? It all seems a year too early. Maybe two years. I might be guilty of being negative ATM.

[SeaBeachFred]

Fred, I'm big on Yorke, too. I hope they start him in Worcester next season. Something would need to happen with Valdez, though, and I can't see that with his defense.

I thought last year's crop of FA starters was awful. I thought the best thing we didn't do was that we didn't jump on that boat. Especially the top end. This year is different. Plenty of pitchers, but the demand is massive. Probably nets us the same as last season.

The team does not deserve the best pitchers. Not until we #1: Play defense and #2: stop the way we manage the pitching game from upstairs.

Olney's right, although he's miles away from original thought, a blowhard and a Yankees' fanboy. Who wants to sign for a team that doesn't respect the role of starting pitching AND kills relief pitchers like they were expendable commodities? Yeah, Tampa's good for killing some arms, but they at least improve pitchers should they survive their stay. 

Is this really the year we ante up to the FA and trade pitching tables? It all seems a year too early. Maybe two years. I might be guilty of being negative ATM.

Boy Mongo, you really put out a real laundry list out there for me to digest so I will try to take it one point at a time.  We both agree about Yorke.  He must not be allowed to get away.  He is  many ways a Dustin Pedroia  type of player and we badly need more of those kinds instead of bums like Valdez.  Favorite of Cora or not, the guy must not be in the lineup as a starter next season.  He is a worse fielder that even Devers and you know by now what I think of his ability with a glove......pathetic. 

As far as last year's pitchers, we goofed badly there in my opinion. We let Eovaldi and Wacha get away and replaced them with dumpster trash.  Those in Red Sox scarlet would have made a major difference to our team.  Look at what they did for their new teams and you have all you need to know. Bloom was a disgrace at BO Director....a day late and a dollar short in all phases. Thank God he's gone and I doubt if he will ever get another job at BO Director.  He's a low level bean c
counter and lucky if he get that.  He was that pathetic.

Defense can only be improved if two things happen.  One Valdez gets nowhere near second base and Cora is warned from above that he better not be tempted to put his pet there.  Secondly, and this is a tough one-----get Devers off of third base and make him the DH.  He has not only not gotten better out there since his rookie year but if anything has gotten worse.  Maybe we need to try for Toronto's guy (forget name) and try and sign him to play there.  He can field, hits righthanded and has power.  Would Prune Face be willing to put up oddles of money for him and for pitchers we need to compete?  After playing the role of a cheap bastard for the past five seasons he at least owes Red Sox fans that.

You hit the nail on the head with your next point.  You win in the Majors with starting pitching and our organization has undermined that spot for years.  We need starting pitchers to be able to go into the seventh inning to save our bullpen and not wear it out as they have done the past five seasons.  And whoever are the dumb turds upstairs trying to run the game on the field, they must be exiled down into the box seats or in their offices and  told to lay off.  That is why you have managers, coaches and maybe this time a decent pitching coach to straighten things out.  That's why they pay them, isn't it?  It might be a pipe dream on my part but these things need to happen if we are ever get out of the pest hole we are in and start being the Red Sox again.

Great post by you Mongo by the way.

[Sea Dog 23]

A story out in the Athletic that Sox are talking to Cincy about their 2B Johnathan India.  This is a Jim Bouton piece, which used to be questionable value, but he seems to have gotten some traction with the Athletic.  So India is  very suspect at the plate, .244 in 23, .255 over three seasons, for defense he has an OOA of -2 in 23.  That's just a little better than Urias, that we just traded.  Some rumblings that they want Houck plus a prospect for this trade.  If that's the deal, I surely hope they back off.  Maybe Walter and minimal prospect in A ball would be negotiable.  They can do much better.  Adames, Merrifield maybe.

[MongoLikeSox]

Boy Mongo, you really put out a real laundry list out there for me to digest so I will try to take it one point at a time.  We both agree about Yorke.  He must not be allowed to get away.  He is  many ways a Dustin Pedroia  type of player and we badly need more of those kinds instead of bums like Valdez.  Favorite of Cora or not, the guy must not be in the lineup as a starter next season.  He is a worse fielder that even Devers and you know by now what I think of his ability with a glove......pathetic. 

As far as last year's pitchers, we goofed badly there in my opinion. We let Eovaldi and Wacha get away and replaced them with dumpster trash.  Those in Red Sox scarlet would have made a major difference to our team.  Look at what they did for their new teams and you have all you need to know. Bloom was a disgrace at BO Director....a day late and a dollar short in all phases. Thank God he's gone and I doubt if he will ever get another job at BO Director.  He's a low level bean c
counter and lucky if he get that.  He was that pathetic.

Defense can only be improved if two things happen.  One Valdez gets nowhere near second base and Cora is warned from above that he better not be tempted to put his pet there.  Secondly, and this is a tough one-----get Devers off of third base and make him the DH.  He has not only not gotten better out there since his rookie year but if anything has gotten worse.  Maybe we need to try for Toronto's guy (forget name) and try and sign him to play there.  He can field, hits righthanded and has power.  Would Prune Face be willing to put up oddles of money for him and for pitchers we need to compete?  After playing the role of a cheap bastard for the past five seasons he at least owes Red Sox fans that.

You hit the nail on the head with your next point.  You win in the Majors with starting pitching and our organization has undermined that spot for years.  We need starting pitchers to be able to go into the seventh inning to save our bullpen and not wear it out as they have done the past five seasons.  And whoever are the dumb turds upstairs trying to run the game on the field, they must be exiled down into the box seats or in their offices and  told to lay off.  That is why you have managers, coaches and maybe this time a decent pitching coach to straighten things out.  That's why they pay them, isn't it?  It might be a pipe dream on my part but these things need to happen if we are ever get out of the pest hole we are in and start being the Red Sox again.

Great post by you Mongo by the way.

Fred, you are far too kind. I always enjoy yours, btw. I'm not as quick to the draw as you are sometimes, but you're usually on top of it. I'm either late again on Devers' defense or he turns the corner quickly. His skillset is almost there. He even charged the slow rollers/choppers better last season. Throwing inconsistencies are one thing, but getting caught watching the game instead of being in position to catch a ball thrown to his bag is maddening.

Chapman is a weapon on defense and can hit some HR's, but he is a liability on offense other than that. Whiff rate is sky high. We've got one of those at 3B already. But what a left side of the infield that would be, eh?

[longgame]

What's crazy on Devers is he has the tools including a cannon for an arm, but he rushes stuff. He was steadily improving with Bogey by his side. It will likely help him a lot to have a good SS next to him as opposed to the slop he played next to most of the year.

[Sea Dog 23]

Schoenfield had an article today predicting what all 30 teams do. A pitcher for Milwaukee we've inquired about, Burnes, was projected to be traded to the Orioles straightup for Coby Mayo, a top five prospect.

He expects the Sox to do a bit of everything: Sign RHP Marcus Stroman (3 years, $63 million), RHP Nick Martinez (2 years, $25 million), LF Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (3 years, $45 million) and 2B Amed Rosario.  Also Shohei to the Dodgers for 10/520 and Yamamoto to the Mets for 7/212. With the Mariners trading from their surplus for Soto.

That puts Breslow &company coming up short on breaking the bank for the big boys.

[elktonnick]

Devers has the tools to be a gold glove 3rd baseman.  His problem is he tries too much and rushes throws.  I said he missed his mentor and big brother Bogaerts
  He needs a Spanish speaking role model to steady him.  I believe moving him to dh is the worst thing you can do for his confidence.

He wears nbr 11 the same number as Frank Malzone who in 1957 led the league in errors yet won THE gold glove as the leagues best defensive player.  Errors are not the best indicator of defensive prowess

[Sea Dog 23]

From the lemmings that are reporting things, Yamamoto is the Sox big pitching target in FA, and they are going 'All In' to sign him.  YY was interviewed this week and said he would sign AFTER the Winter Meetings which begin in ten days on Dec 4-7.  A concern how they used this guy in Japan, in his last outing, after he announced he was leaving, his manager had him throw 131 pitches in a game.

In the meantime I get the feeling they will complete the trade for a 2B with the Reds' Johnathan India.  It seems the only holdup there is negotiating the trade pieces.  The Gleyber Torres deal would be idiotic. The Brewers have some IF's, but it looks like Sox want their pitcher Burnes in a trade.

[MongoLikeSox]

From the lemmings that are reporting things, Yamamoto is the Sox big pitching target in FA, and they are going 'All In' to sign him.  YY was interviewed this week and said he would sign AFTER the Winter Meetings which begin in ten days on Dec 4-7.  A concern how they used this guy in Japan, in his last outing, after he announced he was leaving, his manager had him throw 131 pitches in a game.

In the meantime I get the feeling they will complete the trade for a 2B with the Reds' Johnathan India.  It seems the only holdup there is negotiating the trade pieces.  The Gleyber Torres deal would be idiotic. The Brewers have some IF's, but it looks like Sox want their pitcher Burnes in a trade.

Johnathan India, from what I read, is a below average defender. If it is true, this is a hard pass for me. I've not seen enough of him to say for myself. Other than that, he's played in 109 and 119 games the past two years, suggesting at least a little bit of trouble staying healthy. When healthy, he's a 20HR guy and a RH batter - cool. K-rate around 25% - meh, but we've had worse. Batting averages will be around .250-.265 given some space if he ever uses opposite field and a few extra doubles.

So then the question to me is defense. If he is not much better than Valdez, why bother? If he is much better than Valdez, then perhaps.

I agree that a trade for Torres would be idiotic, though I do love that bat. The defense, though. Wow and holy crap levels of bad.

I wonder about the Japanese professional leagues average amount of pitches per outing and how that 131 measures up to normal. He does get impressive innings pitched for their low number of starts. By modern MLB standards, anyhow.