Offseason moves starting

Started by longgame, October 12, 2022, 08:27:02 AM

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MongoLikeSox

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 26, 2022, 08:05:46 AM
Chris Speier relates some of the mood in mgt about our farm system. A couple of pluses, but shedding some deadwood.

“Paul Toboni promoted to VP in charge of amateur scouting and player development.
Devin Pearson promoted to Director of Amateur Scouting.

“Coaching contracts not renewed: Anthony Iapoce (senior hitting coordinator), Lance Carter (AA pitching coach), Nate Spears (A+ hitting coach), Nick Green (A pitching coach). Salem manager declined an invite to return. Ryan Jackson moved from Field Coordinator to a special assistant role in player development.”

Speier floats that Jason Ochart, who spent the last four seasons as Phillies hitting coordinator, could be a candidate to replace Iapoce as the head hitting coordinator.
I've had this one cross my mind over the past few days. We had another thread that discussed the massive dump a lot of the key Red Sox minor leaguers were taking this past season. For every Rafeala, there's a Binelas and Downs.

The bigger indictment is how bad these kids are when they get to Boston. Rookie struggles are big. If they do not struggle then, they certainly will the next season or two. The rare freak aside, it happens. They happen. No doubt. That said, we have no patience as an organization unless you get on Cora's or Blooms good side. We let analytics decide how to mold a player without watching to see if that player can hit like they want. It's back and forth. Benny-Chavis-Dalbec-Duran. Bullpen takes a dump, bench Dalbec so that Bloom can insert the worst baseball player I've ever seen in the Majors because he's a statcast hero. Three weeks in? They did Chavis even worse the year before. Far worse.

This is a process oriented group running the Sox. Dombrowski got fired because he went ran away from that model and ran the club with a selected small group of advisors. The ignored underlings whined, baseball writers wrote about how frustrated the organization had become and Trader Joe was shown the door. I was relieved to see him go. I was so wrong. I now understand why Dombrowski became an autonomous executive. The organization's process is flawed and it does not know the game of baseball. They know stats and they most CERTAINLY know politics. The replaced him with the perfect organizational fit. Chaim Bloom.

Continued player development once they get to the big leagues? Nope. Not a chance. It's a disgrace. It's criminal once you get past Devers. Benny, Chavis, Dalbec, Duran. Just jerk them around to no end. And Houck? We still don't know what he's gonna be, and we won't stick with a plan long enough to see it happen. Same goes for Whitlock.

And please, who in the hell eliminates a strength to fix a weakness? Oh yeah. That would be us. It's stunning. One of their idiot buttons, up there with bullpen by committee, aging veteran cast-offs with 1 good year well in the past, value-driven starting rotations and Franchy Cordero.

Well, they did find a position where he(Franchy) can do less damage than anywhere else. DH. That's right. We've gonna go from 5 years of JDM to Franchy Cordero. You thought Kike was streaky? We're gonna see this guy for a whole season unless he spikes himself trying to bunt. It'll be fun to watch when it works.

Remember this word, my friends. "Value". It's the 2022-2023 hot stove excuse buzzword. Playoff contenders? We'll just leave that to happenstance.

elktonnick

I certainly agree.   The Sox organization emphasis of process over results will lead them to mediocrity over excellence.

Sea Dog 23

I have a suspicion that Bloom is spending all his time last few weeks studying the ‘values’ amok in the 40 man.  He has 36 in tow, probably a dozen of those won’t buy you a cup of coffee in Boston. and has six more  he’s got to absorb, coming off the 30/60 day IL.  Danish saved him a spot by going FA. There are four other players opting out for sure. He can’t see the frickin forest for the trees.  Like Mongo, I think Cordero is his shining star.

SeaBeachFred

Mongo hit a homer with that missive o his and I don't think we can find anything wrong with what he said.  Elk fell in line and so do I.  If as hinted Cordero is Bloom's "shining star"   that's all we need to know that our team is going nowhere fast with this bum in charge of Baseball Ops.  He was a minor figure at Tampa Bay, not one or the two in charge and he got his job in Boston because he was part of the Rays ability to get more bang for the buck----of which his contributions were of minor importance.  He fits in nicely with his dumpster diving for mediocre talent that seldom nets a real surprising prospect who blossoms into a key players........certainly not Cordero, a strikeout artist par excellence, a shitty fielder, a dumb baserunner and a player who needs to be jettisoned as one of the first moves of this offseason.

longgame

If Cordero is back, I may have to find a new team until they right the ship in Boston.  He's the canary in Bloom's coal mine.  If he's in, the team is dead. 

Sea Dog 23

Could be Sox mgt. and other AL caught napping.  Talked about at WS last night.  Marlins were able to sign international exec O'Campo away from Astros.  He is responresponsible for bringing all those superstar Latin pitchers to Houston.  We've got Bello and Mata, but they're just learning  big league breaking pitches. 

Many gurus say we're two years away from rebuilding our pitching.

MongoLikeSox

Congratulations to Christian Vasquez for his catching a 4-pitcher no-no last night.

We've seen plenty of what we saw last night from the Red Sox these past couple of seasons, offensively speaking. The Phillies laid a great big smelly egg one game after a night with 5 home runs. Been there, right? Astros breaking out of a slump by staying down and making contact with runners on base is something we've seen our team do.

I can't stand him, but Bregman's AB and swing with the bases loaded should be shown in every club house daily. Imagine the RBI Devers and Bogey would have wound up with? 

I know some don't like Smoltz, but what a great point he made the game before when the Phiilies were launching the first few homers against McCullers. The roaring ferver of a crowd getting behind their team with runners on base compared to short lived bursts of joy from a couple of random HRs. Man, I miss that part of baseball. Not been a whole lot of it this year.

elktonnick

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 03, 2022, 09:30:19 AM
Could be Sox mgt. and other AL caught napping.  Talked about at WS last night.  Marlins were able to sign international exec O'Campo away from Astros.  He is responresponsible for bringing all those superstar Latin pitchers to Houston.  We've got Bello and Mata, but they're just learning  big league breaking pitches. 

Many gurus say we're two years away from rebuilding our pitching.

Anyone who believes that the Red Sox farm system can produce a genuine starter is betting against their track record.  It has been 16 years since the farm produced John Lester.  As you all know  I have repeatedly argued that the Red Sox have a fundamentally flawed approach to how they draft train and develop their pitchers.  We will see if they screw up Bello they way they have so many others before him.

Sea Dog 23

#38
Jon Heyman in the Post, has some “expert “ projections for Bogey, Correa, Trea Turner, Swanson, other free agents.

“Bogaerts to get 8 years, $225M (28M AAV through his age 37 season).” It sounds like Boras wants to take full advantage of the Sox new $85mil windfall.  (Latest I’ve seen is Sox pushing a $200m/7 deal. Thee Mariners have serious interest here and money to spend.)

Heyman projected both Correa and Turner to receive nine years, $275 million ($30.55 AAV). He has Swanson projected to earn seven years, $175 million ($25 million AAV)

Sadly, in this article, the only pitchers I’ve seen the Sox are after are Martin Perez and Ottavino (top 30).

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

SeaBeachFred

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 04, 2022, 10:49:14 AM
Jon Heyman in the Post, has some “expert “ projections for Bogey, Correa, Trea Turner, Swanson, other free agents.

“Bogaerts to get 8 years, $225M (28M AAV through his age 37 season).” It sounds like Boras wants to take full advantage of the Sox new $85mil windfall.  (Latest I’ve seen is Sox pushing a $200m/7 deal. Thee Mariners have serious interest here and money to spend.)

Heyman projected both Correa and Turner to receive nine years, $275 million ($30.55 AAV). He has Swanson projected to earn seven years, $175 million ($25 million AAV)

Sadly, in this article, the only pitchers I’ve seen the Sox are after are Martin Perez and Ottavino (top 30).

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

Perez pitched very well for Texas this past season-----which makes me think two things.  One the Texans have a better pitching coach that the Red Sox do OR, Perez pitched in a place where there was no expectations of winning and therefore no real pressure where in Boston in 2021 the pressure resulted in Martin crapping out very badly.  I would believe the second reason more, but it looks with the rumors concerning him and Ottovino Bloom may be getting ready to dive into the dumpster and pluck out a couple of duds who can enable us to climb no highter than fourth place in the AL East------if we're lucky.

Sea Dog 23

Fred, a move toward a Perez type as a mid/backend pitcher would, to me, signal Mgt thinking Sale is the #1 SP.  How has that worked over the last two years?  Sox seem to be less interested in gambling on Paxton’s option.  He’s only pitched 7 innings over two years.  I think they put a QO on Wacha.  Eovaldi?  probably not.

Rumblings that Casas’ repaired knee is not doing so well.  He was pulled out of the AZ fall league.  I guess if he’s questionable, Hosmer starts spring as the 1B.

MongoLikeSox

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 04, 2022, 05:51:11 PM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 04, 2022, 10:49:14 AM
Jon Heyman in the Post, has some “expert “ projections for Bogey, Correa, Trea Turner, Swanson, other free agents.

“Bogaerts to get 8 years, $225M (28M AAV through his age 37 season).” It sounds like Boras wants to take full advantage of the Sox new $85mil windfall.  (Latest I’ve seen is Sox pushing a $200m/7 deal. Thee Mariners have serious interest here and money to spend.)

Heyman projected both Correa and Turner to receive nine years, $275 million ($30.55 AAV). He has Swanson projected to earn seven years, $175 million ($25 million AAV)

Sadly, in this article, the only pitchers I’ve seen the Sox are after are Martin Perez and Ottavino (top 30).

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

Perez pitched very well for Texas this past season-----which makes me think two things.  One the Texans have a better pitching coach that the Red Sox do OR, Perez pitched in a place where there was no expectations of winning and therefore no real pressure where in Boston in 2021 the pressure resulted in Martin crapping out very badly.  I would believe the second reason more, but it looks with the rumors concerning him and Ottovino Bloom may be getting ready to dive into the dumpster and pluck out a couple of duds who can enable us to climb no highter than fourth place in the AL East------if we're lucky.
I hear ya. Two years of Boston and he's bottom feeding. One year in Texas and he's looking to get a 4-year, $50M deal? Well, good for him.

They let Perez pitch low. Pitch after pitch when he faced us and a time or two I saw him pitch against others. I didn't even know Ottavino pitched last year. I see his ERA was less than half of when he was with us. 

Combined with the sentiment that Elktonic mentioned about our pitching development, I'd have to agree with anyone who suggests that it is a systematic issue.   

Sea Dog 23

It’s going to be a busy week starting Tuesday.  almost time to start dealing your cards.

11/8 to 11-10: GM Meetings in Vegas
11/8 or 11/9: Bogaerts' opt-out decision due
11/10 or 11/11: Team options, QOs due
11/15: Rule 5 protection deadline
11/18: Non-tender deadline
11/20 or 11/21: Qo decisions due
12/5-7: Winter Meetings in SD

MongoLikeSox

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 05, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
It’s going to be a busy week starting Tuesday.  almost time to start dealing your cards.

11/8 to 11-10: GM Meetings in Vegas
11/8 or 11/9: Bogaerts' opt-out decision due
11/10 or 11/11: Team options, QOs due
11/15: Rule 5 protection deadline
11/18: Non-tender deadline
11/20 or 11/21: Qo decisions due
12/5-7: Winter Meetings in SD
The Sox have to decide on Pham 5 days after the World Series. $6M dual option or $1.5M buyout.  I hate to say it because we need more, but Pham is not a horrible 1-year gap player if we had someone waiting in the wings.

Sea Dog 23

#44
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 05, 2022, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 05, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
It’s going to be a busy week starting Tuesday.  almost time to start dealing your cards.

11/8 to 11-10: GM Meetings in Vegas
11/8 or 11/9: Bogaerts' opt-out decision due
11/10 or 11/11: Team options, QOs due
11/15: Rule 5 protection deadline
11/18: Non-tender deadline
11/20 or 11/21: Qo decisions due
12/5-7: Winter Meetings in SD
The Sox have to decide on Pham 5 days after the World Series. $6M dual option or $1.5M buyout.  I hate to say it because we need more, but Pham is not a horrible 1-year gap player if we had someone waiting in the wings.


You're rig ht on with Pham. We may need Pham if Bloom is ready to trade Verdugo (??Masslive report today)  But we’re just treading water/sinking by signing other team's  bench players, Kike  and McGuire ( is he  our catch?).  We have   no Jeremy Pena in the wings. Raphaela is out there, but probably a 2024 player.