RED SOX V PHILLIES
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 14, 2017, 7 PM AT CITIZENS BANK PARK
TV: NESN, CSN-P
BOSTON, (36-28)..............................................................................PHILADELPHIA, (21-42)
BOSTON:
BRIAN JOHN, LHP, 2-0, 3.44 ERA, 16K
The lefty's last start resulted in a no-decision after he gave up
eight hits and three earned runs in fewer than five innings. This
is Johnson's first start in a NL park, and fifth overall in his career, so
he'll take his first MLB at-bats.
PHILADELPHIA:
JEREMY HELLICKSON, RHP, 5-4, 5L50 ERA 3K
Hellickson's struggles continue. He has a 6.43 ERA in his last eight starts.
He allowed his seventh homer on his changeup Friday in St. Louis, which at
the time was the most homers in baseball allowed on the pitch.
Red Sox, Phillies shift series to Philadelphia
Craig Forde
After two games in Boston to start the week, the Red Sox and Phillies change venues to play two more.
Wednesday night's series opener at Citizens Bank Park will see Jeremy Hellickson toe the rubber for the hosts, opposed by southpaw Brian Johnson for Boston.
For the Philadelphia right-hander, it will be his first regular-season start against the Red Sox since his last regular-season start with the Rays back on Sept. 25, 2014.
Hellickson is 4-3 with a 4.41 ERA in 15 appearances against Boston.
Hellickson has allowed seven home runs on changeups this season, the most of any pitcher. He's only two away from tying his career high in that category (2012), and his 8.2-percent homers-per-batted-ball rate on changeups is easily his highest.
Johnson will be making his fourth career start and first against a National League opponent.
The left-hander has had mixed results in three starts this season -- once in each month -- and feels that the path to getting consistent is keeping things simple in his head.
"What got me in trouble last year was overthinking things, and I think with the three starts and now that I'm going [Wednesday], I just go day to day," he said. "Just go pitch to pitch. Attack with that pitch whether it's with Sandy [Leon] or [Christian] Vazquez. Whatever that pitch is at that time, just give it one hundred percent."
THREE THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS GAME
• Red Sox manager John Farrell announced that designated hitter Hanley Ramirez would not see time at first base during the two-game series, and that Mitch Moreland will be the starter at the position.
• Wednesday will mark the return of former Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. to Philadelphia. Now the Red Sox's first-base coach, Amaro served in the role from 2009-15 before joining Boston last season.
"Yeah, it'll be interesting. I don't know if he'll get a standing ovation like [Chase] Utley did," Phils manager Pete Mackanin joked. "I'm sure he's wondering how he's going to be received."
• Phillies first baseman Tommy Joseph entered Tuesday having hit safely in eight straight games, his longest streak at the big league level. In that span, he was hitting .353 with seven RBIs.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/20170613236235266/red-sox-phillies-shift-series-to-philadelphia/?game_pk=491078
Red Sox at PHI:
Betts RF,
Pedroia 2B,
Bogaerts SS,
Benintendi LF,
Ramirez 1B,
Bradley Jr. CF,
Sandoval 3B,
Leon C,
Johnson LHP
So, who is the very creative schedule maker ??? slap
Quote from: Bear on June 14, 2017, 02:47:39 AM
Red Sox at PHI:
Betts RF,
Pedroia 2B,
Bogaerts SS,
Benintendi LF,
Ramirez 1B,
Bradley Jr. CF,
Sandoval 3B,
Leon C,
Johnson LHP
HANLEY at 1st base ??? When will J F learn ???? thumb_d rofl iono slap
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Sox recalling Hector Velazquez. Lord have mercy!!!
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Trying to figure out if this is comical or just plain stupid,
Quote from: Rob from Mass on June 14, 2017, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Trying to figure out if this is comical or just plain stupid,
In years that I've been watching Farrell, I have never seen or heard him do anything that was funny. I vote for stupid.
Some first inning runs here which is a nice change. But Hanley just K'd on a ball in the dirt.
Moreland out with a sore foot from where he got hit with the pitch the other night. Guess he's not a gamer.
3-0. Keep it up.
5-0 after 2. This is more like it.
Bogey has now driven in 3 runs in the first two innings. 5-0
Need Johnson now to hold the lead.
Quote from: markj on June 14, 2017, 06:41:40 PM
5-0 after 2. This is more like it.
OK, now I feel a little bit better !! thumb_u rofl
Johnson trying to give it all back. Had 2 out and no runs in but not any more. And off he goes with an injury.
Got 1 back. 6-3 Sox.
Been out mowing the lawn. What happened to Johnson?
Quote from: markj on June 14, 2017, 07:41:26 PM
Been out mowing the lawn. What happened to Johnson?
Looks like some type of shoulder or arm injury. Arm was hanging limp.
Quote from: markj on June 14, 2017, 07:41:26 PM
Been out mowing the lawn. What happened to Johnson?
Hurt!!!
Due to blackout rules I am watching Phillies broadcast. These announcers are the best I've heard in years. John Kruk is their analyst. After Bogaerts made the outstanding the outstanding throw to end the inning, they said "Wow who said he can't play shortstop" :)
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 07:47:29 PM
Quote from: markj on June 14, 2017, 07:41:26 PM
Been out mowing the lawn. What happened to Johnson?
Hurt!!!
Due to blackout rules I am watching Phillies broadcast. These announcers are the best I've heard in years. John Kruk is their analyst. After Bogaerts made the outstanding the outstanding throw to end the inning, they said "Wow who said he can't play shortstop" :)
That's usually what fools say he can't do.
Quote from: Rob from Mass on June 14, 2017, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Trying to figure out if this is comical or just plain stupid,
Guess it's neither since Moreland has a hurt foot and couldn't go tonight. Is available to pinch hit.
Hellickson out. Ramirez still has not got a hit. Why didn't Farrell pinch hit for Valezquez.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 08:08:20 PM
Hellickson out. Ramirez still has not got a hit. Why didn't Farrell pinch hit for Valezquez.
Because Valezquez is still going to pitch and we had the top of the order coming up with a 6-3 lead.
I would have pinch hit regardless. Man in scoring position nobody out, Velazquez fails to get the bunt down and they don't score.
Bad base running by Benintendi again this season.
Valezquez with 3.1 shut out innings. Only 2 base runners. Pen needed that. If score stays as it is he'll probably get the win. Up to the official scorer.
JBJ never touched 3rd going back to 2nd. Got doubled up. Brain fart.
Rutledge lucky to avoid the error there.
Reversal on review at 2nd. Was out. Two down but 2 on now.
Barnes gets out of the jam. Sweet.
I pinch hit Young or Moreland now depending on who the pitcher is.
Mookie on fire tonight. 2nd HR.
Quote from: ipot on June 14, 2017, 09:13:46 PM
Mookie on fire tonight. 2nd HR.
He's picking up the pace.
Overall good pitching. Good defense and hitting. Sox win 7-3. On to Thursday.
Great defense tonight. BP was strong again. Well played game.
Nice to get ahead early and stay that way for a change. Go for the sweep!
Quote from: Bill-806 on June 14, 2017, 03:41:30 PM
Quote from: Bear on June 14, 2017, 02:47:39 AM
Red Sox at PHI:
Betts RF,
Pedroia 2B,
Bogaerts SS,
Benintendi LF,
Ramirez 1B,
Bradley Jr. CF,
Sandoval 3B,
Leon C,
Johnson LHP
HANLEY at 1st base ??? When will J F learn ???? thumb_d rofl iono slap
He benches one of our hottest hitters, a lefty swinger against a righty pitcher and plays a guy who is coming apart at the seams. No efen way Ramirez plays first base over Moreland, especially against a righty. As if turned out Hanley continued his downfall. Sorry to see that since I'm certain Ramirez is either going backwards now or he is hurt more than we think. Tomorrow get Moreland back in that lineup Farrell.
Also nice to see Hector Velasquez step in and get it done. After that disastrous spot start he had last month.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 06:42:15 PM
Bogey has now driven in 3 runs in the first two innings. 5-0
Yippee I O Kai A!!!!!!!! About time. And it helped get us a good lead at the start, something we need to do more often. Hope Moreland tells Farrell he wants in tomorrow because Hanley seems to be really scuffling right now.
Quote from: Schloicka on June 14, 2017, 07:14:31 PM
Johnson trying to give it all back. Had 2 out and no runs in but not any more. And off he goes with an injury.
I wonder what kind of injury this candy ass has. Perhaps he can combine it with his mental stress to give him a full dose of uselessness. Of course, your boy George did a pretty good job tonight and picked up a win so that was a good thing for the team, and Bogaerts finally understood that he is in there to drive in runs which he did well. Nice if we could run the tables tomorrow at get ten games over 500 for the first time this season. We go out on the road to Houston on Friday and will have our work cut out for us.
Wonder how long tin man Rodriguez will be out this time. He was pitching well when he got another knee injury that he has become a specialist in. We need him back as soon as possible.
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:19:16 PM
Quote from: Bill-806 on June 14, 2017, 03:41:30 PM
Quote from: Bear on June 14, 2017, 02:47:39 AM
Red Sox at PHI:
Betts RF,
Pedroia 2B,
Bogaerts SS,
Benintendi LF,
Ramirez 1B,
Bradley Jr. CF,
Sandoval 3B,
Leon C,
Johnson LHP
HANLEY at 1st base ??? When will J F learn ???? thumb_d rofl iono slap
He benches one of our hottest hitters, a lefty swinger against a righty pitcher and plays a guy who is coming apart at the seams. No efen way Ramirez plays first base over Moreland, especially against a righty. As if turned out Hanley continued his downfall. Sorry to see that since I'm certain Ramirez is either going backwards now or he is hurt more than we think. Tomorrow get Moreland back in that lineup Farrell.
It was stated by Remy and O'Brien that Moreland wouldn't be playing because of an injury to his foot he suffered last night when he got hit in the foot with the ball. If they needed him to he could pinch hit but not play the field. I guess Moreland should of just sucked it up and played 1st without worrying about hurting his foot more and being out even longer.
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
No rhyme or reason to not play Moreland? I guess Moreland being hurt doesn't qualify?
Ok Farrell escaped with a win. Although I don't think Moreland's injury is that serious if he was available to pinch hit. In any case I think it wasn't the best move to have both Sandoval and Ramirez playing. While Sandoval didn't making any glaring errors, even the Phillies announcers commented how shaky he looked on defense.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 06:32:27 AM
Ok Farrell escaped with a win. Although I don't think Moreland's injury is that serious if he was available to pinch hit. In any case I think it wasn't the best move to have both Sandoval and Ramirez playing. While Sandoval didn't making any glaring errors, even the Phillies announcers commented how shaky he looked on defense.
B I N G O dat !!! Although, "ALL'S WELL THAT ENDS WELL" !! thumb_u
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 06:32:27 AM
Ok Farrell escaped with a win. Although I don't think Moreland's injury is that serious if he was available to pinch hit. In any case I think it wasn't the best move to have both Sandoval and Ramirez playing. While Sandoval didn't making any glaring errors, even the Phillies announcers commented how shaky he looked on defense.
How did he look shaky at 3rd? He made a couple of very nice plays there. Had NO ERRORS. Glaring or otherwise. Rutledge, who by the way was the only other infielder we had last night who could play 3rd almost had an error himself but Pedroia saved him with a good play at 2nd. No one said Moreland had a serious injury & it's not your job to make that determination. Moreland said he couldn't go after trying to jog on the foot before the game. Being able to pinch hit is a lot different than moving around the 1st base bag for 9 innings. If Moreland had tried playing and had hurt himself even more and would be out longer because of it you'd be screaming he never should of been playing.
I know the job of most people here is to look under every rock to try to find something to complain about even if the facts don't back up what's being posted. Complaining about a player playing or not playing is ridiculous unless you know why it is happening. It never hurts to actually know the facts about why it's happening before complaining about it. (The facts about why Moreland wasn't playing were readily available to anyone who wanted to know)
Wow, Bogaerts 3 RBIS leads Sox to a W. Mookie with 2 HRs and also 3 RBIS gives Sox 3 straight over the hapless Phils.
JBJ is on one of his HOT STREAKS hitting .348 so far in June.
Sox now only 3 games behind the Bombers in the loss column.
Quote from: Schloicka on June 15, 2017, 07:37:05 AM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 06:32:27 AM
Ok Farrell escaped with a win. Although I don't think Moreland's injury is that serious if he was available to pinch hit. In any case I think it wasn't the best move to have both Sandoval and Ramirez playing. While Sandoval didn't making any glaring errors, even the Phillies announcers commented how shaky he looked on defense.
How did he look shaky at 3rd? He made a couple of very nice plays there. Had NO ERRORS. Glaring or otherwise. Rutledge, who by the way was the only other infielder we had last night who could play 3rd almost had an error himself but Pedroia saved him with a good play at 2nd. No one said Moreland had a serious injury & it's not your job to make that determination. Moreland said he couldn't go after trying to jog on the foot before the game. Being able to pinch hit is a lot different than moving around the 1st base bag for 9 innings. If Moreland had tried playing and had hurt himself even more and would be out longer because of it you'd be screaming he never should of been playing.
I know the job of most people here is to look under every rock to try to find something to complain about even if the facts don't back up what's being posted. Complaining about a player playing or not playing is ridiculous unless you know why it is happening. It never hurts to actually know the facts about why it's happening before complaining about it. (The facts about why Moreland wasn't playing were readily available to anyone who wanted to know)
If ex major leaguers like John Kruk call Sandoval shaky at third then I take note. While Sandoval made plays Kruk complained that he had to leave his feet in order to do so. He observed (quite rightly) that a more agile player wouldn't have and would have been a better position to make the double play. Even Farrell recognizes Sandoval defensive limitations which is why he tends to pull him late in games for a defensive replacement.
BTW I now live in Lower and Slower Delaware and don't have access to NESN. I only saw the lineup shortly before the game and reacted to what I consider to be a typical boneheaded decision by our braindead manager. That the Sox won doesn't change the fact that Hanley was ineffective at the plate against Hellickson as his stats indicated he would be. Events only prove that like the proverbial blind squirrel Farrell finds an acorn now and then.
I can't see why anyone is on Farrell for this game. The Sox jumped to an early lead, in spite of an injury to the starter the pen held the Phillies to minimal offense. The defense shined a few times during this game. I had the same reaction on Moreland being out but then heard he was out due to injury (which was mentioned when they discussed the starting lineup at the top of the game.)
Let's enjoy a textbook win from these guys after a couple of long, extra inning ordeals. I hope Johnson is okay (probably just faking it and isn't tough enough!)
I'm "on Farrell" because given a list of options he invariably makes the wrong choice. My default position is always that the Red Sox win in spite of the dolt who is their manager.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 07:59:01 AM
Quote from: Schloicka on June 15, 2017, 07:37:05 AM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 06:32:27 AM
Ok Farrell escaped with a win. Although I don't think Moreland's injury is that serious if he was available to pinch hit. In any case I think it wasn't the best move to have both Sandoval and Ramirez playing. While Sandoval didn't making any glaring errors, even the Phillies announcers commented how shaky he looked on defense.
How did he look shaky at 3rd? He made a couple of very nice plays there. Had NO ERRORS. Glaring or otherwise. Rutledge, who by the way was the only other infielder we had last night who could play 3rd almost had an error himself but Pedroia saved him with a good play at 2nd. No one said Moreland had a serious injury & it's not your job to make that determination. Moreland said he couldn't go after trying to jog on the foot before the game. Being able to pinch hit is a lot different than moving around the 1st base bag for 9 innings. If Moreland had tried playing and had hurt himself even more and would be out longer because of it you'd be screaming he never should of been playing.
I know the job of most people here is to look under every rock to try to find something to complain about even if the facts don't back up what's being posted. Complaining about a player playing or not playing is ridiculous unless you know why it is happening. It never hurts to actually know the facts about why it's happening before complaining about it. (The facts about why Moreland wasn't playing were readily available to anyone who wanted to know)
If ex major leaguers like John Kruk call Sandoval shaky at third then I take note. While Sandoval made plays Kruk complained that he had to leave his feet in order to do so. He observed (quite rightly) that a more agile player wouldn't have and would have been a better position to make the double play. Even Farrell recognizes Sandoval defensive limitations which is why he tends to pull him late in games for a defensive replacement.
BTW I now live in Lower and Slower Delaware and don't have access to NESN. I only saw the lineup shortly before the game and reacted to what I consider to be a typical boneheaded decision by our braindead manager. That the Sox won doesn't change the fact that Hanley was ineffective at the plate against Hellickson as his stats indicated he would be. Events only prove that like the proverbial blind squirrel Farrell finds an acorn now and then.
John Kruk? Talk about not being agile. Jerry Remy thought Sandavol played a good 3rd base last night but since that doesn't fit your narrative you didn't mention that. Obviously Sandavol has limitation. Not a secret. But guess what? He's going to get playing time at 3rd base. The only guy we've had play 3rd this year that wasn't shaky is Marrero and he wasn't available last night since he was sent down to make room for a relief pitcher. And playing Marreo there in a National League park is like having 2 pitchers at the bottom of the line up. Since Moreland wasn't going to be playing tell me who was going to play 1st if not Hanley? Rutledge? If that happened who was going to play 3rd then if not Sandavol? You had 3 choices. Hanley at 1st and Rutledge at 3rd or Rutledge at 1st and Pablo at 3rd. Or the choice they went with Hanley at 1st & Pablo at 3rd. Seemed to work out ok. To me any combination of Hanley, Pablo & Rutledge is basically the same.
AS far as having or not having NESN that's an excuse to justify why you didn't take the time to actually find out why he wasn't playing. You are more interested in bashing the manager than finding out why something is being done. I have NESN for every game they broadcast because I get it off the internet for free and send it to the tv to watch. Never miss a game on NESN.
Obviously you haven't heard of blackout rules regarding the Nesn broadcast when the Sox play Washington,Philadelphia or Baltimore since I live in southern De. My Internet provider blacks out Nesn when the Sox plays those teams.
Yes I will continue to bash Farrell because he richly deserves bashing. Quite frankly while I respect Remy I don't think he has the final word about Panda who is a defensive liability and is recognized as such by most competent baseball observers.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 08:57:39 AM
I'm "on Farrell" because given a list of options he invariably makes the wrong choice. My default position is always that the Red Sox win in spite of the dolt who is their manager.
So what your saying is the facts be damned. He's always wrong even when he's not.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 09:39:41 AM
Obviously you haven't heard of blackout rules regarding the Nesn broadcast when the Sox play Washington,Philadelphia or Baltimore since I live in southern De. My Internet provider blacks out Nesn when the Sox plays those teams.
Yes I will continue to bash Farrell because he richly deserves bashing. Quite frankly while I respect Remy I don't think he has the final word about Panda who is a defensive liability and is recognized as such by most competent baseball observers.
Black out rules don't apply to the internet. When I had the MLB.tv on the tv when the Sox played the Yanks NESN was blacked out here. So now I get the same feed free from the internet and watch the NESN feed all the time if NESN has the game.
Who said Pablo was great at 3rd? No one. We are talking about 1 game where he played 3rd base and Hanley played 1st. You had a choice of 3 players for 2 spots so either Hanley or Pablo had to play. No other option was available.
Well I stream all theSox games and have for several years. But because of my a Internet address I get an message whenever I attempt to log on when the Sox play local teams. So unless you are illegally doing something to get the broadcast mlb blackout rules do apply to all games streamed on MLB.com
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 10:04:53 AM
Well I stream all theSox games and have for several years. But because of my a Internet address I get an message whenever I attempt to log on when the Sox play local teams. So unless you are illegally doing something to get the broadcast mlb blackout rules do apply to all games streamed on MLB.com
Of course I'm watching an illegal feed of the game. It's not illegal for me to watch it. The illegal part is on the people who make it available. There are numerous sites that have feeds to the games for free.
Anyone watching an illegal broadcast is in no position to lecture those of us who do things the right way. It is the height of sophistry to make the distinction that you aren't doing anything illegal but are supporting those who do.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 10:33:13 AM
Anyone watching an illegal broadcast is in no position to lecture those of us who do things the right way. It is the height of sophistry to make the distinction that you aren't doing anything illegal but are supporting those who do.
For it to be "sophistry" what I had to say would of had to be false which none of what I said was. I'm not supporting anyone since I'm not paying for the service. It's 100% free. I have no idea who is putting the feeds on line or from where they are doing it. And where exactly am I lecturing anyone about what they watch or how they watch it. All I said was if you wanted to watch the NESN broadcast there are ways to do it. I didn't advocate for you to do anything.
Sophistry is the deliberate use of a false argument with the intent to trick someone or a false or untrue argument. An example of sophistry is when you use a fact in an argument to make your point even though you know the point is false.
Sophistry also refers to being dishonest in your argumentation . To be precise you obtained your rationale in an attempt to rebut my argument by use of illegal means an illegally intercepted broadcast hence dishonest . That is why I quite rightly refered to your post as the height of sophistry. Actually I was being polite. I could have used much unkinder language.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 08:57:39 AM
I'm "on Farrell" because given a list of options he invariably makes the wrong choice. My default position is always that the Red Sox win in spite of the dolt who is their manager.
I agree with that, just not that he did anything particularly wrong lately. I was surprised he didn't bat for Velazquez but it worked out as he pitched another inning. Also surprised when he pinch hit Rutledge for Panda, instead of having him hit in the pitcher's spot 2 spots later and saving a bat on the bench if needed.
Quote from: Schloicka on June 14, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
No rhyme or reason to not play Moreland? I guess Moreland being hurt doesn't qualify?
Maybe you watched the ESPN's classic special "Lakers vs Celtics---Classic Rivalry" last night Georgie, though I doubt you did, so let me put some new colors in your paint box. In that 1987 NBA Finals series, Celtic Kevin McHale did not suffer a bruised foot, he had a broken one----AND HE WRAPPED IT UP AND PLAYED GAMES FIVE AND SIX WITH IT. Where there's a will, there's a way and in my opinion if Moreland could PH he could have played. To have to disastrous defensive players manning the corner infield spots we were lucky w e didn't blow the game. I don't know the severity of Moreland's injury but it sure as hell wasn't in the league with McHale's and the game they were playing ( or in Moreland's case wasn't). Again you want to take the snowflake way out of it George, fine, but you have your take on things and I have mine----and so again for the umpteenth time we will simply have to agree to disagree.
I do wonder if you ever coached baseball in your life, or even played it much judging from your attitude about things like that. Chances are the first part is no, the second part is very little.
Quote from: Schloicka on June 15, 2017, 07:37:05 AM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 06:32:27 AM
Ok Farrell escaped with a win. Although I don't think Moreland's injury is that serious if he was available to pinch hit. In any case I think it wasn't the best move to have both Sandoval and Ramirez playing. While Sandoval didn't making any glaring errors, even the Phillies announcers commented how shaky he looked on defense.
How did he look shaky at 3rd? He made a couple of very nice plays there. Had NO ERRORS. Glaring or otherwise. Rutledge, who by the way was the only other infielder we had last night who could play 3rd almost had an error himself but Pedroia saved him with a good play at 2nd. No one said Moreland had a serious injury & it's not your job to make that determination. Moreland said he couldn't go after trying to jog on the foot before the game. Being able to pinch hit is a lot different than moving around the 1st base bag for 9 innings. If Moreland had tried playing and had hurt himself even more and would be out longer because of it you'd be screaming he never should of been playing.
I know the job of most people here is to look under every rock to try to find something to complain about even if the facts don't back up what's being posted. Complaining about a player playing or not playing is ridiculous unless you know why it is happening. It never hurts to actually know the facts about why it's happening before complaining about it. (The facts about why Moreland wasn't playing were readily available to anyone who wanted to know)
Well it balances out Schloik. We hard asses who you think demand too much are counter-acted by your pollyanna attitude that all is well and no mistakes are made by our genius board of strategy. I readily admit I take a hard line on those who seem to take the easy way out, but your pampering attitude and belief that the coaching does no wrong borders on lunacy. Notice when one of our pitchers gets a injury a call is sent to Pawtucket for a replacement? Well they either could have recalled Sam Travis last night, or if it happened too late could call him for tonight's game. For all your roseate looks at Sandoval, the guy is a menace at third base, cannot move to save his ass, and is hitting 215. Most of us k now we can do better than him at third. You don't so we agree to disagree once again.
Quote from: Rob from Mass on June 15, 2017, 07:45:13 AM
Wow, Bogaerts 3 RBIS leads Sox to a W. Mookie with 2 HRs and also 3 RBIS gives Sox 3 straight over the hapless Phils.
JBJ is on one of his HOT STREAKS hitting .348 so far in June.
Sox now only 3 games behind the Bombers in the loss column.
That is encouraging for all Red Sox fans Rob, and my only take is that....IS IT SUSTAINABLE OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME????? So far this year it hasn't been, but a hot Mookie and Jackie, strong hitting from Pedroia and Andrew, and a quick return from Moreland could mean some good news for us down the road even though I'm still not completely sold on this team. Tonight's game and that series in Houston will tell you, me and the rest if this team of ours has turned a corner, though I still worry about our starting pitching. We need a healthy and mentally ready Price, E-Rod back soon, and Pomeranz to work a little faster so the infield is not back on its heels when he pitches which can induce fielding errors.
Quote from: elktonnick on June 15, 2017, 01:36:46 PM
Sophistry also refers to being dishonest in your argumentation . To be precise you obtained your rationale in an attempt to rebut my argument by use of illegal means an illegally intercepted broadcast hence dishonest . That is why I quite rightly refered to your post as the height of sophistry. Actually I was being polite. I could have used much unkinder language.
I owe you one Elk since you saved me from tot al embarrassment the other night concerning Bogaerts who I admitted to having a animus towards him for his lousy clutch hitting. Well here goes.....Why even argue with that guy? He is a pollyanna and apologist of the first order, you know the type, SEE NO EVIL, SPEAK NO EVIL, HEAR NONE UTTERED IN HIS PRESENCE. Once in awhile George will tear into the front office but almost without exception he is giving them succor and support and actually believes Farrell is a decent manager. Sorry, but it is hard to get through to a guy like that. Someone has to steal his rose colored glasses. Well we have a chance for a four game sweep tonight my friend-----let's take full advantage of it this time around.
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 15, 2017, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Schloicka on June 14, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
No rhyme or reason to not play Moreland? I guess Moreland being hurt doesn't qualify?
Maybe you watched the ESPN's classic special "Lakers vs Celtics---Classic Rivalry" last night Georgie, though I doubt you did, so let me put some new colors in your paint box. In that 1987 NBA Finals series, Celtic Kevin McHale did not suffer a bruised foot, he had a broken one----AND HE WRAPPED IT UP AND PLAYED GAMES FIVE AND SIX WITH IT. Where there's a will, there's a way and in my opinion if Moreland could PH he could have played. To have to disastrous defensive players manning the corner infield spots we were lucky w e didn't blow the game. I don't know the severity of Moreland's injury but it sure as hell wasn't in the league with McHale's and the game they were playing ( or in Moreland's case wasn't). Again you want to take the snowflake way out of it George, fine, but you have your take on things and I have mine----and so again for the umpteenth time we will simply have to agree to disagree.
I do wonder if you ever coached baseball in your life, or even played it much judging from your attitude about things like that. Chances are the first part is no, the second part is very little.
I think you're way out of line. I've known George online for years and he's knowledgeable and quite critical of actual issues. Playing a game against the Phillies in June is a far cry from a bloody sock situation (a better analogy than McHale).
I believe a win in June counts just as much in the standings as one in September. "For want of a nail the shoe was lost " I let you finish the rest.
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 15, 2017, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Schloicka on June 14, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
No rhyme or reason to not play Moreland? I guess Moreland being hurt doesn't qualify?
Maybe you watched the ESPN's classic special "Lakers vs Celtics---Classic Rivalry" last night Georgie, though I doubt you did, so let me put some new colors in your paint box. In that 1987 NBA Finals series, Celtic Kevin McHale did not suffer a bruised foot, he had a broken one----AND HE WRAPPED IT UP AND PLAYED GAMES FIVE AND SIX WITH IT. Where there's a will, there's a way and in my opinion if Moreland could PH he could have played. To have to disastrous defensive players manning the corner infield spots we were lucky w e didn't blow the game. I don't know the severity of Moreland's injury but it sure as hell wasn't in the league with McHale's and the game they were playing ( or in Moreland's case wasn't). Again you want to take the snowflake way out of it George, fine, but you have your take on things and I have mine----and so again for the umpteenth time we will simply have to agree to disagree.
I do wonder if you ever coached baseball in your life, or even played it much judging from your attitude about things like that. Chances are the first part is no, the second part is very little.
Your trying to equate a player sitting out in game 65 of a 162 game schedule with a player playing hurt in the NBA finals? If it would of been game 10 of the regular NBA season I doubt very much he would of been playing. It's apples and oranges. No where near the same thing.
Did I ever coach baseball in my life? Only for 25 years at various levels. My high school teams won just over 90% of their games. It would of been more but if we had a game cancelled for any reason and we didn't really have to play it I didn't bother. Especially if it was against a bad team.
Did I ever play baseball? I played a little. My college coach thought I was ok but that's ancient history now.
Did I ever do anything else in baseball? I'm not sure if this qualifies but I did umpire for 19-20 years from little league through college.
And you know what? I got up one morning and wrote out my resignations to the high school and the umpire association and mailed them. Since then unless I'm at a game in Fenway I haven't seen more than 9 innings of baseball at any level in person. There is a summer college team 6 miles from my house who have tried to get me to come down and help out but I've always declined. This past winter I did go up to the local school to do a favor for a former player of mine who just got the high school coaching job. (He doesn't know I helped him get the job) He was wondering how I got things organized because being in the program as a player is a lot different than organizing things. So I went up and helped him out for a week. I never did go watch his team play but they had a pretty good year going 12-4.
Fred, anytime you want to have a war of words about baseball or anything else for that matter I strongly suggest you at least arm yourself because I'll make you look very foolish. You can call me a Pollyanna or a snowflake or whatever because coming from you it means very little. You seem to be some guy who used to coach (which by the way there are thousands of ex coaches out there) who thinks he's an expert. Maybe you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I don't know.
As DAD would say, "WELL KING, THIS CASE IS CLOSED" !!
Quote from: Schloicka on June 15, 2017, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 15, 2017, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Schloicka on June 14, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
No rhyme or reason to not play Moreland? I guess Moreland being hurt doesn't qualify?
Maybe you watched the ESPN's classic special "Lakers vs Celtics---Classic Rivalry" last night Georgie, though I doubt you did, so let me put some new colors in your paint box. In that 1987 NBA Finals series, Celtic Kevin McHale did not suffer a bruised foot, he had a broken one----AND HE WRAPPED IT UP AND PLAYED GAMES FIVE AND SIX WITH IT. Where there's a will, there's a way and in my opinion if Moreland could PH he could have played. To have to disastrous defensive players manning the corner infield spots we were lucky w e didn't blow the game. I don't know the severity of Moreland's injury but it sure as hell wasn't in the league with McHale's and the game they were playing ( or in Moreland's case wasn't). Again you want to take the snowflake way out of it George, fine, but you have your take on things and I have mine----and so again for the umpteenth time we will simply have to agree to disagree.
I do wonder if you ever coached baseball in your life, or even played it much judging from your attitude about things like that. Chances are the first part is no, the second part is very little.
Your trying to equate a player sitting out in game 65 of a 162 game schedule with a player playing hurt in the NBA finals? If it would of been game 10 of the regular NBA season I doubt very much he would of been playing. It's apples and oranges. No where near the same thing.
Did I ever coach baseball in my life? Only for 25 years at various levels. My high school teams won just over 90% of their games. It would of been more but if we had a game cancelled for any reason and we didn't really have to play it I didn't bother. Especially if it was against a bad team.
Did I ever play baseball? I played a little. My college coach thought I was ok but that's ancient history now.
Did I ever do anything else in baseball? I'm not sure if this qualifies but I did umpire for 19-20 years from little league through college.
And you know what? I got up one morning and wrote out my resignations to the high school and the umpire association and mailed them. Since then unless I'm at a game in Fenway I haven't seen more than 9 innings of baseball at any level in person. There is a summer college team 6 miles from my house who have tried to get me to come down and help out but I've always declined. This past winter I did go up to the local school to do a favor for a former player of mine who just got the high school coaching job. (He doesn't know I helped him get the job) He was wondering how I got things organized because being in the program as a player is a lot different than organizing things. So I went up and helped him out for a week. I never did go watch his team play but they had a pretty good year going 12-4.
Fred, anytime you want to have a war of words about baseball or anything else for that matter I strongly suggest you at least arm yourself because I'll make you look very foolish. You can call me a Pollyanna or a snowflake or whatever because coming from you it means very little. You seem to be some guy who used to coach (which by the way there are thousands of ex coaches out there) who thinks he's an expert. Maybe you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I don't know.
OK George, you were a baseball coach......a liberal one to be sure but a coach. Won over 90% of your games. Wish I could say I won more but can't. For me it was only 88% And if it means little to you why answer me in the first place. I struck a nerve, didn't I? Didn't mean to but your apologistic attitude to everything the front office seems to do does rankle me because I think I'm smart enough to know that Farrell is a shitty manager and one of the very worst in baseball. What say you on that George???? And be careful how you answer that because it might give you away. Now enough of the pissing contest.
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 15, 2017, 05:59:38 PM
Quote from: Schloicka on June 15, 2017, 03:43:20 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 15, 2017, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Schloicka on June 14, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Quote from: SeaBeachFred on June 14, 2017, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: elktonnick on June 14, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Morelend is hot and playing a gold glove !st base. He is especially effective against Hellickson going 4 for 8 against him. Ramirez on the other hand has played sparingly at 1st and almost injured himself during his last time playing there. Has never got a hit off Hellickson. So of course Farrell is starting Ramirez instead of Moreland at first tonight. Just to make sure Ramirez has all the help he can get defensively at 1st, our genius manager will start STONE glove nominee at 3rd Pablo Sandoval.
Is there now any doubt that we have the poorest excuse for a manager in the league. There was no rhyme or reason to bench a hot hitter, a lefty to boot, to start a right handed hitter mired in what seems a season long slump. Then the fact that defensively he can't carry Moreland's jock and the compounds his misdemeanor with another felony by starting Sandoval at third base. Just how stupid is this Farrell guy anyway? Almost everyone here should be able to see that this guy is way in over his head.
No rhyme or reason to not play Moreland? I guess Moreland being hurt doesn't qualify?
Maybe you watched the ESPN's classic special "Lakers vs Celtics---Classic Rivalry" last night Georgie, though I doubt you did, so let me put some new colors in your paint box. In that 1987 NBA Finals series, Celtic Kevin McHale did not suffer a bruised foot, he had a broken one----AND HE WRAPPED IT UP AND PLAYED GAMES FIVE AND SIX WITH IT. Where there's a will, there's a way and in my opinion if Moreland could PH he could have played. To have to disastrous defensive players manning the corner infield spots we were lucky w e didn't blow the game. I don't know the severity of Moreland's injury but it sure as hell wasn't in the league with McHale's and the game they were playing ( or in Moreland's case wasn't). Again you want to take the snowflake way out of it George, fine, but you have your take on things and I have mine----and so again for the umpteenth time we will simply have to agree to disagree.
I do wonder if you ever coached baseball in your life, or even played it much judging from your attitude about things like that. Chances are the first part is no, the second part is very little.
Your trying to equate a player sitting out in game 65 of a 162 game schedule with a player playing hurt in the NBA finals? If it would of been game 10 of the regular NBA season I doubt very much he would of been playing. It's apples and oranges. No where near the same thing.
Did I ever coach baseball in my life? Only for 25 years at various levels. My high school teams won just over 90% of their games. It would of been more but if we had a game cancelled for any reason and we didn't really have to play it I didn't bother. Especially if it was against a bad team.
Did I ever play baseball? I played a little. My college coach thought I was ok but that's ancient history now.
Did I ever do anything else in baseball? I'm not sure if this qualifies but I did umpire for 19-20 years from little league through college.
And you know what? I got up one morning and wrote out my resignations to the high school and the umpire association and mailed them. Since then unless I'm at a game in Fenway I haven't seen more than 9 innings of baseball at any level in person. There is a summer college team 6 miles from my house who have tried to get me to come down and help out but I've always declined. This past winter I did go up to the local school to do a favor for a former player of mine who just got the high school coaching job. (He doesn't know I helped him get the job) He was wondering how I got things organized because being in the program as a player is a lot different than organizing things. So I went up and helped him out for a week. I never did go watch his team play but they had a pretty good year going 12-4.
Fred, anytime you want to have a war of words about baseball or anything else for that matter I strongly suggest you at least arm yourself because I'll make you look very foolish. You can call me a Pollyanna or a snowflake or whatever because coming from you it means very little. You seem to be some guy who used to coach (which by the way there are thousands of ex coaches out there) who thinks he's an expert. Maybe you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I don't know.
OK George, you were a baseball coach......a liberal one to be sure but a coach. Won over 90% of your games. Wish I could say I won more but can't. For me it was only 88% And if it means little to you why answer me in the first place. I struck a nerve, didn't I? Didn't mean to but your apologistic attitude to everything the front office seems to do does rankle me because I think I'm smart enough to know that Farrell is a shitty manager and one of the very worst in baseball. What say you on that George???? And be careful how you answer that because it might give you away. Now enough of the pissing contest.
Not sure what a liberal coach is? I haven't apologized for anything the front office has done. You can't find anywhere that I've made excuses for the front office. Since I have no control over anything they do why would i apologize or make excuses? Why do I answer you? Because it humors me to watch you piss and moan about everything and it's easy to get your goat. No other reason. I really could care less about Farrell. I agree with him sometimes and sometimes I don't. I don't just automatically blame him when a player doesn't do their job. I expect a player to actually do their job.