Bosox Board

Sox yesterday released Almonte and signed a guy named Caleb Hamilton, a minor league catcher from Minnesota. 

Some projections from writers on SS … Dodgers aren’t feeling need to resign Trea Turner,  who the Yankees would love to have. Carlos Correa has opted out, could go to the Dodgers (big money to spend) or to Boston (his bond with Cora) , IF Sox cool on Bogey.  Angels are also an interested party for Correa.

Atlanta is expected to open up the wallet and resign Swanson.

Turner had a career high errors and didn't look so good in that I saw in the playoffs. The Yankees' bridge gap to their #1 prospect has been playing some jittery baseball. Kiner-Falefa, or whatever his name is. The Yanks have been drooling about that kid Volpe ever since they drafted him. I don't know if Volpe makes it out of the gate or if they go with Peraza. I think a typical team goes with one of the kids, but this is the Yankees.

Sounds like the Sox have been talking to Rich Hill this week about returning (as a 43 y.o. in 2023).  Eovaldi and Walcha are more value, but the writers think Sox like the low budget chances with Hill. That’s not gonna excite the fan base at all.

So you have Sale, Pivetta, Hill, Bello and Crawford, probably Paxton. IMO They’ll be trading for a top of rotation pitcher. Unfortunately the asking price will include two of Mayer or Casas, coupled with Duran and a Blaze Jordan level prospect.

Bogey named a GG finalist along with Carlos Correa and Jeremy Pena of the Astros.

More pressure on Blooming Idiot.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 21, 2022, 07:25:20 AM
Sounds like the Sox have been talking to Rich Hill this week about returning (as a 43 y.o. in 2023).  Eovaldi and Walcha are more value, but the writers think Sox like the low budget chances with Hill. That’s not gonna excite the fan base at all.

So you have Sale, Pivetta, Hill, Bello and Crawford, probably Paxton. IMO They’ll be trading for a top of rotation pitcher. Unfortunately the asking price will include two of Mayer or Casas, coupled with Duran and a Blaze Jordan level prospect.

Hill????  Haven't Bloomer Boy and Prune Face learned anything from this year's debacle?  Hill got the shit knocked out of him in almost all the games he pitched, save two or three.  He was always good for giving up four or five runs and his stuff is below average now that he is in his 40's  And Cutter Crawford???????  Already I'm sick at reading shit like this about some of the garbage we are actually b ringing back a bum like that.  Pivetta?  He was  going well into the summer and then forgot how to get out of the first inning but he might come around better next year.  As for Bello, he has the stuff but can he learn how to pi tch and stop walking batters and giving up over a hit an inning.  Not very encouraging from where I sit.

Hill pitches two good games and everyone loves him then he throws 3 bad ones, go on the IL and comes back.  He's great for a guy his age, but there's a reason guys his age are retired.

If Bloom is smart (a huge presumption to be sure) he will sign Hill for two simple reasons, 1 he can eat innings and 2nd he will be relatively inexpensive.   History has shown that Boston will need between 8 or 9 starters.  Having a Hill around is good insurance in my book.

I had figured on Hill jumping in sometime in June for some bonus-heavy deal for a contender. Maybe even pitch for the US in the World Classic and take a few months off afterwards.

Perhaps Cora will come out with a 5-1/2 man rotation this year and have Hill get 20 starts and 15 relief appearances in some sort of hyrbid role like when baseball had 4-1/2 man rotations.

Someone mentioned Bloom, so I thought I'd take this moment to congratulate Dombrowski on getting into the WS.   

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on October 24, 2022, 03:09:38 PM
I had figured on Hill jumping in sometime in June for some bonus-heavy deal for a contender. Maybe even pitch for the US in the World Classic and take a few months off afterwards.

Perhaps Cora will come out with a 5-1/2 man rotation this year and have Hill get 20 starts and 15 relief appearances in some sort of hyrbid role like when baseball had 4-1/2 man rotations.

Someone mentioned Bloom, so I thought I'd take this moment to congratulate Dombrowski on getting into the WS.

Yes, kudos to Dombrowski.  He’s the only baseball exec to have taken four different clubs to the WS.

At least half of the Sox's farm club is DD prospects, not Bloom's.  DD knows minor leaguers can't play in the majors, Bloom thinks he's a genius for playing guys who aren't ready. 

One of Henry's biggest mistakes was to run Dombrowski out of town.  All the reporting indicated Henry didn't think Dombrowski was process oriented.  Henry allegedly is a big process guy.  Myself, I would think results are what counts.  Trust the process only if it produces results.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 24, 2022, 04:23:06 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on October 24, 2022, 03:09:38 PM
I had figured on Hill jumping in sometime in June for some bonus-heavy deal for a contender. Maybe even pitch for the US in the World Classic and take a few months off afterwards.

Perhaps Cora will come out with a 5-1/2 man rotation this year and have Hill get 20 starts and 15 relief appearances in some sort of hyrbid role like when baseball had 4-1/2 man rotations.

Someone mentioned Bloom, so I thought I'd take this moment to congratulate Dombrowski on getting into the WS.

Yes, kudos to Dombrowski.  He’s the only baseball exec to have taken four different clubs to the WS.

Kudos to Dombo are certainly in order but five will get you a thousand there will be no such kudos sent from his yacht by John Prune Face Henry.

All reports are that Bloom is hot on signing Devers and has offered a deal much improved over one discussed during ST.  Will signing Devers make it easier to sign Bogey?

Quote from: longgame on October 25, 2022, 04:05:34 PM
All reports are that Bloom is hot on signing Devers and has offered a deal much improved over one discussed during ST.  Will signing Devers make it easier to sign Bogey?

I saw some speculation that it would take 7/$300mil to sweeten the talks with Devers after the weak Spring offer.  Basically $40mil AAV with some added bonuses.  There are several free-agents who will join the new bigger payday for franchise players next year, some have predicted. 

Is Devers worth that? in baseball terms, not really.  But if MGT values keeping one or two ‘face of the franchise’ in place, that may be the price.

Chris Speier relates some of the mood in mgt about our farm system. A couple of pluses, but shedding some deadwood.

“Paul Toboni promoted to VP in charge of amateur scouting and player development.
Devin Pearson promoted to Director of Amateur Scouting.

“Coaching contracts not renewed: Anthony Iapoce (senior hitting coordinator), Lance Carter (AA pitching coach), Nate Spears (A+ hitting coach), Nick Green (A pitching coach). Salem manager declined an invite to return. Ryan Jackson moved from Field Coordinator to a special assistant role in player development.”

Speier floats that Jason Ochart, who spent the last four seasons as Phillies hitting coordinator, could be a candidate to replace Iapoce as the head hitting coordinator.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 25, 2022, 05:43:41 PM

Quote from: longgame on October 25, 2022, 04:05:34 PM
All reports are that Bloom is hot on signing Devers and has offered a deal much improved over one discussed during ST.  Will signing Devers make it easier to sign Bogey?

I saw some speculation that it would take 7/$300mil to sweeten the talks with Devers after the weak Spring offer.  Basically $40mil AAV with some added bonuses.  There are several free-agents who will join the new bigger payday for franchise players next year, some have predicted. 

Is Devers worth that? in baseball terms, not really.  But if MGT values keeping one or two ‘face of the franchise’ in place, that may be the price.

"Worth it" went out a long time ago.  Are any of these guys really "worth" $1MM a year to play a child's game?  But this is where the market has brought us.  I wonder where the top is?

Looks like the Sox have offered Devers around $200MM for 10 years. Devers, who apparently has a far better grasp on the market than the Red Sox, wants 10/$300MM which is what the market would give him.  Bloom better not blow this. 

Brock Holt retired this week. It so happened that Holt was let go six days after Bloom became the baseball ops man. Chaim is responsible for displacing the entire outfield from the 2018 team, including Holt. Holt was a spark plug in the dugout.  He also parted ways with OFs Renfroe and Schwarber who was a winner on the field and off.

Forgive me if I have doubts about Bogey and Devers longevity.

Quote from: longgame on October 28, 2022, 09:03:26 AM
Looks like the Sox have offered Devers around $200MM for 10 years. Devers, who apparently has a far better grasp on the market than the Red Sox, wants 10/$300MM which is what the market would give him.  Bloom better not blow this.

Five will get you a hundred that Bloom will blow this bigger and higher than the first Atomic Blast at Hiroshima; it's in his miserable understanding and lack of knowing talent along with his totally misreading of the market.  He is not alone in this Ted.  Didn't Lucchino misread the market on Jon Lester back in early 2014 and led to a total undoing of the team as others railed at this and wanted out like Lackey, Gomes and even Napoli.  Two years of last place finishes ensued, and keep in mind we also misread the market on bums like Hanley Ramirez and that other fat bum we signed from the Giants, both miserable flops with us who were eventually released by Dombrowski.  As for John Henry he knows all about commodities in wheat and corn futures but when it comes to understanding a market for baseball flesh he is as bankrupt as they come.  If we lose Devers because of penny pinching the team will deserve every reversal they deserve and we fans will have to suffer for it.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 28, 2022, 11:06:03 AM
Brock Holt retired this week. It so happened that Holt was let go six days after Bloom became the baseball ops man. Chaim is responsible for displacing the entire outfield from the 2018 team, including Holt. Holt was a spark plug in the dugout.  He also parted ways with OFs Renfroe and Schwarber who was a winner on the field and off.

Forgive me if I have doubts about Bogey and Devers longevity.

WE ALL HAVE THOSE DOUBTS SEA DOG.  READ WHAT LONGGAME SAID ON ANOTHER POST.  BLOOM SHOWED HIS INEPTNESS NOT ONLY IN RELEASINGD A SPARKPLUG LIKE HOLT BUT REPLACING HIM THE NEXT SEASON WITH A TURD NAMED PERAZA WHO WAS SO SHITTY HE HAD BEEN RELEASED THE LOWLY REDS, THEN BY US AND THEN BY TWO O THER TEAMS IN 2021. BLOOMER BOY HAS LOST ALL CREDIBILITY AND HAS BECOME AS USELESS AS LION WITH NO TEETH.

Reports coming out of the DR suggest that Bloom is screwing up the Devers negotiations.  Reports have it that Devers wants 30m for 10 years and Sox are not going anywhere near those numbers.

This is on Henry as much as Bloom. There's a long low-balling history that predates Bloom, even with some we've somehow kept over the years.

I don't know if Devers is worth what he wants. I'd have liked to see the maturity settle in that keeps the over-swinging off the table.  That said, he just now turned 26. Of those 10 years, 5 of those will be prime year seasons. Even if he take the age 32 dive, that's still 5 prime years and 1-2 reduced years before the big tank. I think we see that tank happen in the form of being sent to DH by then, and he'll spend the last few years hitting .250, 22HR, 80RBI from the 6-hole kind of thing.

It's not my money, so it's easy to say. I nervously say pay him.

Bogey's got the body type that will have him floating around the bases like a freak of nature until he retires. I say pay for him far less nervously.

Another all-star 3B Aranado opted back into his 5yrs/$144mil  contract thru 2027. Somehow he gets a bump to $35 mil AAV next year. Both the Cardinalsand Rockies are paying his deal.

There is speculation Bloom might ask the Braves for a trade for 3B Austin Riley if he can’t sign Devers. 3B for 3B. No confirmation on that one.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 29, 2022, 04:53:25 PM
Another all-star 3B Aranado opted back into his 5yrs/$144mil  contract thru 2027. Somehow he gets a bump to $35 mil AAV next year. Both the Cardinalsand Rockies are paying his deal.

There is speculation Bloom might ask the Braves for a trade for 3B Austin Riley if he can’t sign Devers. 3B for 3B. No confirmation on that one.

You think the Braves are dumb enough to trade one of their two or three biggest honchos to the Red Sox?  Earth of all of us, the Braves are not led by brain damaged dunces like Bloom andd Henry.

By the way, did any of you out there read how Dan Dombrowski was called and congratulated by everyone in the Red Sox Board of Executives except one?  Yup, you guessed the one, old Prune Face Henry himself, a man totally lacking in people skills who seems to be quickly running the Red Sox into the ground with his parsimonious ways.  The guy has just about undone all the good he brought to the franchise when he bought it.  The Boston Media and Press could attack this guy with full force and make the filthy bum come out of hiding and face the music.

Dombrowski said recently that he had no idea why he was fired.  At the time the Red Sox released a statement that it was over philosophical differences. It seems to me that common courtesy  is to at least you tell an employee why he was let go.  Apparently the Red Sox never did that in Dombrowski's case.  It isn't surprising that so many of former Red Sox top employees have such a bad feeling about the way their final moments with Boston were handled...Pedro and Ortiz have sent plenty of signals that Bogey and Devers are not too happy with the way the Red Sox are handling their contracts and those of the former teammates. .
Henry's total lack of people skills seem to be imposed on Bloom. 
I hope coming events prove me wrong but I think.the immediate Red Sox future will not be a bright one

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 29, 2022, 04:53:25 PM
Another all-star 3B Aranado opted back into his 5yrs/$144mil  contract thru 2027. Somehow he gets a bump to $35 mil AAV next year. Both the Cardinalsand Rockies are paying his deal.

There is speculation Bloom might ask the Braves for a trade for 3B Austin Riley if he can’t sign Devers. 3B for 3B. No confirmation on that one.

Atlanta was smart enough to lock in their star 3B in a fairly low AAV contract.  There's no way they'd trade him and if they did, the haul the Sox would have to give up would belie any statements about building a farm system.  The fact is the Sox have one of the best SS's and one of the best 3B's in the game.  Anybody they don't know of similar quality is a) a crap shoot and b) would cost as much or more.   

Mongo, you are 100% correct.  The Sox approach is lowball someone and feel happy they didn't spend too much.  The Yankees and Dodgers work the opposite way - they decide who they want and figure out what it costs to get them.  Baseball players aren't commodities, they have different qualities and shelf lives.

I'd love to see Brock Holt in the booth, but it would be nice if he had a broadcast partner who had a personality.

I was reading an analysis of what psyche Bloom has going into the off-season.  "Identify him as an executive officer of a retail store."  Macy's --- no.  Dollar Store --- more like what we have directing the Sox off-season.
One example of this theory:  Bloom has two big contracts to negotiate.  $300mil /10 for Devers and $200mil/7 for Bogey.  Being the low ball artist he is, he is selecting just one and that is the lower cost, shorter term deal.

So, what to do with 3B?  One option, a trade for Devers -- the Tampa method of sell high while he is of value.  Move Dalbec to 3B, then move Bogey to Third when Mayer is ready for SS in two years.  I'm expecting some really bad results along those line.   iono

The name of the game, you have to think like Bloom to figure out Bloom's crazy transactions.

I know hardly anyone who follows the Red Sox on this board gives two cents about the news affecting Liverpool.of the Premier League.  However, news from across the pond indicates Henry is facing a similar challenge with Liverpool.  Apparently that club is not doing well and needs to look toward a rebuild.   The question arises will Liverpools situation affect Henry's willingness and ability to spend on the Red Sox?

Quote from: elktonnick on October 29, 2022, 06:41:12 PM
Dombrowski said recently that he had no idea why he was fired.  At the time the Red Sox released a statement that it was over philosophical differences. It seems to me that common courtesy  is to at least you tell an employee why he was let go.  Apparently the Red Sox never did that in Dombrowski's case.  It isn't surprising that so many of former Red Sox top employees have such a bad feeling about the way their final moments with Boston were handled...Pedro and Ortiz have sent plenty of signals that Bogey and Devers are not too happy with the way the Red Sox are handling their contracts and those of the former teammates. .
Henry's total lack of people skills seem to be imposed on Bloom. 
I hope coming events prove me wrong but I think.the immediate Red Sox future will not be a bright one

I think I pre-empted you on that one Elk.  Last night I told my wife NOT TO GET ME ANY RED SOX STUFF FOR CHRISTMAS, NOT A CALENDAR, TEE SHIRT, BOOK, SHORTS, JERSEY, NOTHING!!!!!!!!! As you know my friend from our talks I love the Red Sox and like you I live and die with them and get very frustrated with the way their team has been handled since the end of the 2018 season.  That money my wife spends on me for Red Sox gear goes right into the coffers of Prune Face and his merry band of tightwads and until I see some real change in their spending habits and their last of commitment to winning they will not get a dime out of me.  Certainly that also means no trip to Boston to spend 4-5 thousand dollars for a three game series with air fare, hotel fees and food and entertainment which more than likely might be used to prop up Prune Face's soccer team in England which also sucks badly of late.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on October 26, 2022, 08:05:46 AM
Chris Speier relates some of the mood in mgt about our farm system. A couple of pluses, but shedding some deadwood.

“Paul Toboni promoted to VP in charge of amateur scouting and player development.
Devin Pearson promoted to Director of Amateur Scouting.

“Coaching contracts not renewed: Anthony Iapoce (senior hitting coordinator), Lance Carter (AA pitching coach), Nate Spears (A+ hitting coach), Nick Green (A pitching coach). Salem manager declined an invite to return. Ryan Jackson moved from Field Coordinator to a special assistant role in player development.”

Speier floats that Jason Ochart, who spent the last four seasons as Phillies hitting coordinator, could be a candidate to replace Iapoce as the head hitting coordinator.

I've had this one cross my mind over the past few days. We had another thread that discussed the massive dump a lot of the key Red Sox minor leaguers were taking this past season. For every Rafeala, there's a Binelas and Downs.

The bigger indictment is how bad these kids are when they get to Boston. Rookie struggles are big. If they do not struggle then, they certainly will the next season or two. The rare freak aside, it happens. They happen. No doubt. That said, we have no patience as an organization unless you get on Cora's or Blooms good side. We let analytics decide how to mold a player without watching to see if that player can hit like they want. It's back and forth. Benny-Chavis-Dalbec-Duran. Bullpen takes a dump, bench Dalbec so that Bloom can insert the worst baseball player I've ever seen in the Majors because he's a statcast hero. Three weeks in? They did Chavis even worse the year before. Far worse.

This is a process oriented group running the Sox. Dombrowski got fired because he went ran away from that model and ran the club with a selected small group of advisors. The ignored underlings whined, baseball writers wrote about how frustrated the organization had become and Trader Joe was shown the door. I was relieved to see him go. I was so wrong. I now understand why Dombrowski became an autonomous executive. The organization's process is flawed and it does not know the game of baseball. They know stats and they most CERTAINLY know politics. The replaced him with the perfect organizational fit. Chaim Bloom.

Continued player development once they get to the big leagues? Nope. Not a chance. It's a disgrace. It's criminal once you get past Devers. Benny, Chavis, Dalbec, Duran. Just jerk them around to no end. And Houck? We still don't know what he's gonna be, and we won't stick with a plan long enough to see it happen. Same goes for Whitlock.

And please, who in the hell eliminates a strength to fix a weakness? Oh yeah. That would be us. It's stunning. One of their idiot buttons, up there with bullpen by committee, aging veteran cast-offs with 1 good year well in the past, value-driven starting rotations and Franchy Cordero.

Well, they did find a position where he(Franchy) can do less damage than anywhere else. DH. That's right. We've gonna go from 5 years of JDM to Franchy Cordero. You thought Kike was streaky? We're gonna see this guy for a whole season unless he spikes himself trying to bunt. It'll be fun to watch when it works.

Remember this word, my friends. "Value". It's the 2022-2023 hot stove excuse buzzword. Playoff contenders? We'll just leave that to happenstance.

I certainly agree.   The Sox organization emphasis of process over results will lead them to mediocrity over excellence.

I have a suspicion that Bloom is spending all his time last few weeks studying the ‘values’ amok in the 40 man.  He has 36 in tow, probably a dozen of those won’t buy you a cup of coffee in Boston. and has six more  he’s got to absorb, coming off the 30/60 day IL.  Danish saved him a spot by going FA. There are four other players opting out for sure. He can’t see the frickin forest for the trees.  Like Mongo, I think Cordero is his shining star.

Mongo hit a homer with that missive o his and I don't think we can find anything wrong with what he said.  Elk fell in line and so do I.  If as hinted Cordero is Bloom's "shining star"   that's all we need to know that our team is going nowhere fast with this bum in charge of Baseball Ops.  He was a minor figure at Tampa Bay, not one or the two in charge and he got his job in Boston because he was part of the Rays ability to get more bang for the buck----of which his contributions were of minor importance.  He fits in nicely with his dumpster diving for mediocre talent that seldom nets a real surprising prospect who blossoms into a key players........certainly not Cordero, a strikeout artist par excellence, a shitty fielder, a dumb baserunner and a player who needs to be jettisoned as one of the first moves of this offseason.

If Cordero is back, I may have to find a new team until they right the ship in Boston.  He's the canary in Bloom's coal mine.  If he's in, the team is dead. 

Could be Sox mgt. and other AL caught napping.  Talked about at WS last night.  Marlins were able to sign international exec O'Campo away from Astros.  He is responresponsible for bringing all those superstar Latin pitchers to Houston.  We've got Bello and Mata, but they're just learning  big league breaking pitches. 

Many gurus say we're two years away from rebuilding our pitching.

Congratulations to Christian Vasquez for his catching a 4-pitcher no-no last night.

We've seen plenty of what we saw last night from the Red Sox these past couple of seasons, offensively speaking. The Phillies laid a great big smelly egg one game after a night with 5 home runs. Been there, right? Astros breaking out of a slump by staying down and making contact with runners on base is something we've seen our team do.

I can't stand him, but Bregman's AB and swing with the bases loaded should be shown in every club house daily. Imagine the RBI Devers and Bogey would have wound up with? 

I know some don't like Smoltz, but what a great point he made the game before when the Phiilies were launching the first few homers against McCullers. The roaring ferver of a crowd getting behind their team with runners on base compared to short lived bursts of joy from a couple of random HRs. Man, I miss that part of baseball. Not been a whole lot of it this year.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 03, 2022, 09:30:19 AM
Could be Sox mgt. and other AL caught napping.  Talked about at WS last night.  Marlins were able to sign international exec O'Campo away from Astros.  He is responresponsible for bringing all those superstar Latin pitchers to Houston.  We've got Bello and Mata, but they're just learning  big league breaking pitches. 

Many gurus say we're two years away from rebuilding our pitching.

Anyone who believes that the Red Sox farm system can produce a genuine starter is betting against their track record.  It has been 16 years since the farm produced John Lester.  As you all know  I have repeatedly argued that the Red Sox have a fundamentally flawed approach to how they draft train and develop their pitchers.  We will see if they screw up Bello they way they have so many others before him.

Jon Heyman in the Post, has some “expert “ projections for Bogey, Correa, Trea Turner, Swanson, other free agents.

“Bogaerts to get 8 years, $225M (28M AAV through his age 37 season).” It sounds like Boras wants to take full advantage of the Sox new $85mil windfall.  (Latest I’ve seen is Sox pushing a $200m/7 deal. Thee Mariners have serious interest here and money to spend.)

Heyman projected both Correa and Turner to receive nine years, $275 million ($30.55 AAV). He has Swanson projected to earn seven years, $175 million ($25 million AAV)

Sadly, in this article, the only pitchers I’ve seen the Sox are after are Martin Perez and Ottavino (top 30).

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 04, 2022, 10:49:14 AM
Jon Heyman in the Post, has some “expert “ projections for Bogey, Correa, Trea Turner, Swanson, other free agents.

“Bogaerts to get 8 years, $225M (28M AAV through his age 37 season).” It sounds like Boras wants to take full advantage of the Sox new $85mil windfall.  (Latest I’ve seen is Sox pushing a $200m/7 deal. Thee Mariners have serious interest here and money to spend.)

Heyman projected both Correa and Turner to receive nine years, $275 million ($30.55 AAV). He has Swanson projected to earn seven years, $175 million ($25 million AAV)

Sadly, in this article, the only pitchers I’ve seen the Sox are after are Martin Perez and Ottavino (top 30).

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

Perez pitched very well for Texas this past season-----which makes me think two things.  One the Texans have a better pitching coach that the Red Sox do OR, Perez pitched in a place where there was no expectations of winning and therefore no real pressure where in Boston in 2021 the pressure resulted in Martin crapping out very badly.  I would believe the second reason more, but it looks with the rumors concerning him and Ottovino Bloom may be getting ready to dive into the dumpster and pluck out a couple of duds who can enable us to climb no highter than fourth place in the AL East------if we're lucky.

Fred, a move toward a Perez type as a mid/backend pitcher would, to me, signal Mgt thinking Sale is the #1 SP.  How has that worked over the last two years?  Sox seem to be less interested in gambling on Paxton’s option.  He’s only pitched 7 innings over two years.  I think they put a QO on Wacha.  Eovaldi?  probably not.

Rumblings that Casas’ repaired knee is not doing so well.  He was pulled out of the AZ fall league.  I guess if he’s questionable, Hosmer starts spring as the 1B.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 04, 2022, 05:51:11 PM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 04, 2022, 10:49:14 AM
Jon Heyman in the Post, has some “expert “ projections for Bogey, Correa, Trea Turner, Swanson, other free agents.

“Bogaerts to get 8 years, $225M (28M AAV through his age 37 season).” It sounds like Boras wants to take full advantage of the Sox new $85mil windfall.  (Latest I’ve seen is Sox pushing a $200m/7 deal. Thee Mariners have serious interest here and money to spend.)

Heyman projected both Correa and Turner to receive nine years, $275 million ($30.55 AAV). He has Swanson projected to earn seven years, $175 million ($25 million AAV)

Sadly, in this article, the only pitchers I’ve seen the Sox are after are Martin Perez and Ottavino (top 30).

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/major-league-baseball-ranking-top-30-free-agents/

Perez pitched very well for Texas this past season-----which makes me think two things.  One the Texans have a better pitching coach that the Red Sox do OR, Perez pitched in a place where there was no expectations of winning and therefore no real pressure where in Boston in 2021 the pressure resulted in Martin crapping out very badly.  I would believe the second reason more, but it looks with the rumors concerning him and Ottovino Bloom may be getting ready to dive into the dumpster and pluck out a couple of duds who can enable us to climb no highter than fourth place in the AL East------if we're lucky.

I hear ya. Two years of Boston and he's bottom feeding. One year in Texas and he's looking to get a 4-year, $50M deal? Well, good for him.

They let Perez pitch low. Pitch after pitch when he faced us and a time or two I saw him pitch against others. I didn't even know Ottavino pitched last year. I see his ERA was less than half of when he was with us. 

Combined with the sentiment that Elktonic mentioned about our pitching development, I'd have to agree with anyone who suggests that it is a systematic issue.   

It’s going to be a busy week starting Tuesday.  almost time to start dealing your cards.

11/8 to 11-10: GM Meetings in Vegas
11/8 or 11/9: Bogaerts' opt-out decision due
11/10 or 11/11: Team options, QOs due
11/15: Rule 5 protection deadline
11/18: Non-tender deadline
11/20 or 11/21: Qo decisions due
12/5-7: Winter Meetings in SD

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 05, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
It’s going to be a busy week starting Tuesday.  almost time to start dealing your cards.

11/8 to 11-10: GM Meetings in Vegas
11/8 or 11/9: Bogaerts' opt-out decision due
11/10 or 11/11: Team options, QOs due
11/15: Rule 5 protection deadline
11/18: Non-tender deadline
11/20 or 11/21: Qo decisions due
12/5-7: Winter Meetings in SD

The Sox have to decide on Pham 5 days after the World Series. $6M dual option or $1.5M buyout.  I hate to say it because we need more, but Pham is not a horrible 1-year gap player if we had someone waiting in the wings.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 05, 2022, 10:08:10 PM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 05, 2022, 04:54:17 PM
It’s going to be a busy week starting Tuesday.  almost time to start dealing your cards.

11/8 to 11-10: GM Meetings in Vegas
11/8 or 11/9: Bogaerts' opt-out decision due
11/10 or 11/11: Team options, QOs due
11/15: Rule 5 protection deadline
11/18: Non-tender deadline
11/20 or 11/21: Qo decisions due
12/5-7: Winter Meetings in SD

The Sox have to decide on Pham 5 days after the World Series. $6M dual option or $1.5M buyout.  I hate to say it because we need more, but Pham is not a horrible 1-year gap player if we had someone waiting in the wings.

You're rig ht on with Pham. We may need Pham if Bloom is ready to trade Verdugo (??Masslive report today)  But we’re just treading water/sinking by signing other team's  bench players, Kike  and McGuire ( is he  our catch?).  We have   no Jeremy Pena in the wings. Raphaela is out there, but probably a 2024 player.

An outfield of Pham, Kike, and Verdugo is mediocre at best and not befitting a team wishing to contend.  IMHO it is among the poorest out fields in recent Ted Sox history.

I don't know if it was the Red Sox who told Verdugo to bulk up because they needed power in the outfield or whether it was Dugo who decided he wanted to be a power hitter.  Either way it was a rotten mistake on whoever orchestrated this.  The guy was bulky, slow afield and pathetic on the bases----and he didn't hit either for power or average.  He needs to slim down and work on his mechanics to become a good gap hitter with average power and hit for average with an emphasis on driving in runs and regain some of his running speed lost in his weight gaining crusade.  Pham was pretty rotten toward the end of the season but Cora seems to like him and apparently Kiki is high in  the team's plans which would be good if we got the 2022 version instead of the bumbler we got this past season.  My friends we have a lot of work to do, and SOMEONE PLEASE TELL BLOOM TO CLIMB OUT OF HIS DUMPSTER AND START SIGNING SOME REAL BALLPLAYERS,  ESPECIALLY SOME DECENT PITCHERS.

I think Verdugo was the one who wanted to hit more HRs.  We've seen this so many times.  It doesn't work.  You're either a homer hitter or you're not and he's a doubles guy.

Martin Perez was a disaster.  Why spend any money on this guy.  We've seen his act before, one year in Texas doesn't change that.

If the Sox want a top SS they'll have to pay Bogey or overpay Dansby Swanson.  I'd be shocked if they spent more money to get Correa or Turner.

If Pham is the first move Bloom makes in the postseason, he may not survive the end of the month.

Ottavino?  How about getting a closer and then filling in your bullpen.  Seems like young hard throwers is the key, not old veterans with a spotty record.

Why do I think this offseason is going to be a total disaster?

Quote from: longgame on November 07, 2022, 07:35:41 AM
I think Verdugo was the one who wanted to hit more HRs.  We've seen this so many times.  It doesn't work.  You're either a homer hitter or you're not and he's a doubles guy.

Martin Perez was a disaster.  Why spend any money on this guy.  We've seen his act before, one year in Texas doesn't change that.

If the Sox want a top SS they'll have to pay Bogey or overpay Dansby Swanson.  I'd be shocked if they spent more money to get Correa or Turner.

If Pham is the first move Bloom makes in the postseason, he may not survive the end of the month.

Ottavino?  How about getting a closer and then filling in your bullpen.  Seems like young hard throwers is the key, not old veterans with a spotty record.

Why do I think this offseason is going to be a total disaster?

Because Bloom has given no indication he is up to the job.  He thinks Sox fans will accept a team full of Kike Hernandez and the player who can play multiple positions.

For the OF I’ve seen the Sox are looking for a corner OF in the $10-15m range, without a QO attached. The analytics dweebs are looking at ‘value’ in a batter who can show an upside hitting with no shift in ‘23.  Speculation for that situation is Joc Pederson, Gallo, Conforto.  I don’t trust my twitter, but somebody posted this morning the Yanks released Benintendi. If Refsnyder and Cordero (blech) take up a lot of the slack, it means Bloom is history by January and looking for an accounting job somewhere.

Fenway Sports Group announced that it open to selling Liverpool.  Henry realizes that Liverpool faces the same issues as Red Sox when it comes to rebuilding.

Quote from: elktonnick on November 07, 2022, 09:04:13 AM
Fenway Sports Group announced that it open to selling Liverpool.  Henry realizes that Liverpool faces the same issues as Red Sox when it comes to rebuilding.

Is that a sellout or looking for minority stakes in ownership?

Either according to the article.  Sounds like Henry may be over extended financially and looking for an infusion of cash.

Quote from: longgame on November 07, 2022, 07:35:41 AM
I think Verdugo was the one who wanted to hit more HRs.  We've seen this so many times.  It doesn't work.  You're either a homer hitter or you're not and he's a doubles guy.

Martin Perez was a disaster.  Why spend any money on this guy.  We've seen his act before, one year in Texas doesn't change that.

If the Sox want a top SS they'll have to pay Bogey or overpay Dansby Swanson.  I'd be shocked if they spent more money to get Correa or Turner.

If Pham is the first move Bloom makes in the postseason, he may not survive the end of the month.

Ottavino?  How about getting a closer and then filling in your bullpen.  Seems like young hard throwers is the key, not old veterans with a spotty record.

Why do I think this offseason is going to be a total disaster?

Answer to your last question Ted.  Because you have a working brain and know as well as the rest of us that as long as Bloom holds his position it's going to be an unmitigated disaster for our team.....and it doesn't look like Prune Face desires to change horses.  And did you see where Bloom says "we should win; we have the pieces."  Is he out of his gord?

Well Bogey took his opt- out. Per Jon Heyman among those interested are Braves, Dodgers, Twins, Cardinals, Phillies and Giants.  Boras will probably hold out for several months to get the high bid, that’s what he does.  No way Bloom waits this out.  He either gives big money to Correa or TTurner, or he signs another 2B to shuffle  to shuffle between SS and 2B with Story. That would be the Bloom way to do it.  Whatever, the Sox need a flashy signing early, or no decent free agents will play for Chaim’s way of running things.

The Liverpool news makes me believe that the rise in interest rates is hurting John Henry.  If this is true, I doubt Bloom will be making any big Free Agency moves.  I suspect he is going to be hard pressed to give Devers an extension offer he would accept. Worst case scenario is that he trades Devers for a boatload of prospects and multi role players.

People are joking that Henry is selling Liverpool to get money to pay for Devers and Bogey.  That would be great news if true, but I think he's just cashing out.  On the other hand he has to be happy to see inflation as those millions he has to dole out won't be worth as much now.

The news on Beni being "released" was a bit misleading.  He opted for free agency which is no surprise. Just like Judge, Bogey and every other FA. 

Chris Cotillo MassLive “believes” Sox sign Bogey and extend Devers this off-season.  Other additions are Wacha, Christian Vazquez and a trade or two coming (there is no way they can protect all the good prospects in AA and AAA on the 40 man, so trade some to get a return)  I hope Cotillo has some reason to think this is so.  Just about every other writer in unconvinced Sox know what their doing,

https://masslive.com/redsox/2022/11/red-sox-bold-predictions-xander-bogaerts-re-signs-a-big-trade-is-made-more.html

In OF news Sox decline Pham's option ($6m deal). Maybe sign they dont trade Verdugo.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 07, 2022, 05:19:06 PM
In OF news Sox decline Pham's option ($6m deal). Maybe sign they dont trade Verdugo.

Good news I think

I think it's good news too.  The last thing I would have wanted to hear was we've got Pham and are done with the OF.  They still need a good OF with a big stick.  It's tough that they have two weak hitting, poor fielding guys for two of three OF positions. 

I thought about this a couple weeks ago.  Bloom signed SS Story as insurance Bogey opted out.  It may be coming to fruition as pieces fall into place.  “He has his new SS, now this on MLB/news,

“According to sources (at the GM meeting) the Red Sox have started reaching out to some teams regarding the availability of their second basemen.”

Maybe Bloom is doing his due diligence, but it looks like he has a plan.  god help us.

Bloom would overwork the due-diligence stage at a brothel and end up with the dead one.

I've read some of those rumors, too. They certainly sound plausible. Some of the Bloom & Company MO showing up again. Something is seriously wrong if we cannot pony up to the bar with the big boys. We might end up losing Betts, Devers and Bogey in a what, 3-4 year stretch? That's inexcusable. Not the Sox fans that spends and shows up.

I still find it stunning we got over the threshold this past season.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 08, 2022, 03:55:29 PM
Bloom would overwork the due-diligence stage at a brothel and end up with the dead one.

I've read some of those rumors, too. They certainly sound plausible. Some of the Bloom & Company MO showing up again. Something is seriously wrong if we cannot pony up to the bar with the big boys. We might end up losing Betts, Devers and Bogey in a what, 3-4 year stretch? That's inexcusable. Not the Sox fans that spends and shows up.

I still find it stunning we got over the threshold this past season.

Anyone who majored in the classics is not someone who will make quick decisions.  I think Bloom can easily become paralyzed by analysis. 

I am still processing the news that Henry wants to sell Liverpool.  Does this mean he is only in a position to authorize big spending after such a sale. 

I just do not think Bloom is the guy to make a big splash on the free agency market.  Given Henry's track record I think he moves away from Bloom if he successfully sells Liverpool for the 3 plus billion that it is probably worth.

Forget the mid term election, the really big
and important news is that Henry has found a buyer for Liverpool.  According to reports coming out of Kuwait  a Qatari group has agreed to buy the team for 4 billion plus.  If true, Henry has no excuse for not spending the money for Bogey et al.

Bloom is denying he's shopping for a 2B.  He needs to stop responding.  He should be looking at 2B, his starter there that gets $20MM isn't that good and is injury prone, as his primary backup.  If he got the Bogey deal done he wouldn't have to respond to this stuff.  But the press is clearly a distraction to him.  It's funny because you see on social media that there are two distinct camps - those who hate Bloom and those who hate the media.  I hate both!  But I only care about what the Sox do, not what the writers do. 

Quote from: longgame on November 09, 2022, 07:37:53 AM
Bloom is denying he's shopping for a 2B.  He needs to stop responding.  He should be looking at 2B, his starter there that gets $20MM isn't that good and is injury prone, as his primary backup.  If he got the Bogey deal done he wouldn't have to respond to this stuff.  But the press is clearly a distraction to him.  It's funny because you see on social media that there are two distinct camps - those who hate Bloom and those who hate the media.  I hate both!  But I only care about what the Sox do, not what the writers do.

The Boston sports media smell blood.   In this case the media reflects what most fans are thinking.  Bloom can not spin or talk his way to success.  He has to produce results. Unless or until he lands quality players he is toast.  Right now no one in Boston neither media nor fans thinks he can get it done.

Quote from: elktonnick on November 09, 2022, 07:55:31 AM

Quote from: longgame on November 09, 2022, 07:37:53 AM
Bloom is denying he's shopping for a 2B.  He needs to stop responding.  He should be looking at 2B, his starter there that gets $20MM isn't that good and is injury prone, as his primary backup.  If he got the Bogey deal done he wouldn't have to respond to this stuff.  But the press is clearly a distraction to him.  It's funny because you see on social media that there are two distinct camps - those who hate Bloom and those who hate the media.  I hate both!  But I only care about what the Sox do, not what the writers do.

The Boston sports media smell blood.   In this case the media reflects what most fans are thinking.  Bloom can not spin or talk his way to success.  He has to produce results. Unless or until he lands quality players he is toast.  Right now no one in Boston neither media nor fans thinks he can get it done.

Whoever in MLB does the power ratings, Sox are 24th this week.  And behind KC !  Not good for Bloom.  And Henry has a timetable. Cherington and DD both were let go after 4 years.  And both had won a world title. This is Bloom’s 4th year, and all he has to show for it is one ALCS entry with three horrible finishes.  He’s on the clock.

Refsnyder signed, avoids arbitration.  We may think he's a solid depth piece but I hear Bloom asked him "can you play SS?".

Red Sox’s Eric Hosmer to opt in to contract’s remaining 3 years, $39 million. This decision was expected. Hosmer would not have made more money on the open market. The 33-year-old first baseman batted only .265 with a .325 on-base percentage, .410 slugging percentage and .735 OPS in 610 games (2,484 plate appearances) in the first five years of the eight-year, $144-million contract he signed with the Padres before the 2018 season.

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/11/red-soxs-eric-hosmer-to-opt-in-to-contracts-remaining-3-years-39-million-report.html?utm_campaign=redsox_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR02IYOxmvBXWhyikbLnUtZ064aIEEveBB_DibPz_IE2cL_TwbHSwfYtIR4

Do the Padres still pay for him though?  If so it's a great deal.  Let's hope we see the old Eric Hosmer either way. 

Quote from: longgame on November 09, 2022, 12:20:36 PM
Do the Padres still pay for him though?  If so it's a great deal.  Let's hope we see the old Eric Hosmer either way.

We pay the league minimum portion, IIRC. I don't know the rest of the $$ benefits and all that payroll stuff. Pretty cheap Casas insurance, at least. Hopefully it doesn't cost Casas too many live action development reps. 

So Bloom is doing some house cleaning around what’s left of the roster.  Refsnyder check.  Hosmer opted in as said above, as did Paxton today.  Pax picked up his 1-year $4mil option, after Sox declined their 2-yr $26mil option for him. Effectively Bloom cannot deal with other team’s FA until tomorrow, Thurs.

It will be interesting to see the length of the new deals.  For another reset, it would come after 2024, the end of Sale’s current 2/$51 mil contract.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 09, 2022, 02:37:57 PM
So Bloom is doing some house cleaning around what’s left of the roster.  Refsnyder check.  Hosmer opted in as said above, as did Paxton today.  Pax picked up his 1-year $4mil option, after Sox declined their 2-yr $26mil option for him. Effectively Bloom cannot deal with other team’s FA until tomorrow, Thurs.

It will be interesting to see the length of the new deals.  For another reset, it would come after 2024, the end of Sale’s current 2/$51 mil contract.

Paxton opting in for $4M is either a high character move or a no-confidence move. I hope it's the former. Just the way I see it, anyhow.

With Paxson and Sale in tow, whatever their physical condition, Sox are said to be inquiring about FA pitchers Heaney (LAD) and Seth Lugo (Mets).

Halloran of Sox apparently told Garrett Whitlock to prepare for beginning as a starting pitcher. Told Houck he COULD be ST as well.  Leads me to think they will put big money on BP and elite closer.

I know it is my irrational fears but I really do not see Bloom making any significant moves or signings that will improve the Red Sox in 23. In fact I believe the club will not win 75 games next year.  I hope I am wrong.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 10, 2022, 07:00:36 AM
Leads me to think they will put big money on BP and elite closer.

Okay, where is the real Sea Dog and what have you done to him?

The Sox are really in bad shape â€" today.  This Bloom character has $120mil to buy some new shiny objects, yes.  But it will be two seasons away before they can at least compete for a ALDS.  Just too many holes to fill in one off-season.

I looked at one site’s depth chart today.  Our SS is Downs.  The 1B is Hosmer.  Catcher, McGuire.  CF, KHernandez, RF Refsnyder.  Adding to those weaknesses,  the #2 players at those positions are mostly AA players with not much experience.  Casas could be a godsend.  Guys,  keep the home fires burning as we take a ride on the Bloom Bus to parts unknown.

As I look over the 40 man roster and the numerous holes throughout the starting lineup I have visions of the 1963 Red Sox lineup.  Unless or until Bloom demonstrates some dynamic moves this team is going to be in a long term slump.  We could see several years of Pittsburgh Pirates type of performance.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 16, 2022, 05:12:07 PM
The Sox are really in bad shape â€" today.  This Bloom character has $120mil to buy some new shiny objects, yes.  But it will be two seasons away before they can at least compete for a ALDS.  Just too many holes to fill in one off-season.

I looked at one site’s depth chart today.  Our SS is Downs.  The 1B is Hosmer.  Catcher, McGuire.  CF, KHernandez, RF Refsnyder.  Adding to those weaknesses,  the #2 players at those positions are mostly AA players with not much experience.  Casas could be a godsend.  Guys,  keep the home fires burning as we take a ride on the Bloom Bus to parts unknown.

Downs??????  That is about as bad as Cordero, two turds in a pot.  Can you imagine the errors and strikeout looming on the horizon with bums like these two in our lineup?????  My God, have we fallen even farther down the hole than even I thought we had?

Tonight is the deadline for MLB teams to announce their non-tender list.

Expected to deal in arb with Devers, Verdugo, Arroyo, McGuire, Pivetta.
Those who are non-tendered could be Cordero, Josh Taylor, Brasier, Chang.  Those four represent about $5mil in total salary.  So what value do they bring?  Taylor may have something to bring with the shortage of lefties in the pen.  But can he get healthy?

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 18, 2022, 03:23:52 PM
Tonight is the deadline for MLB teams to announce their non-tender list.

Expected to deal in arb with Devers, Verdugo, Arroyo, McGuire, Pivetta.
Those who are non-tendered could be Cordero, Josh Taylor, Brasier, Chang.  Those four represent about $5mil in total salary.  So what value do they bring?  Taylor may have something to bring with the shortage of lefties in the pen.  But can he get healthy?

Cordero NOT tendered?????????????  I'll believe it when I see it.  The way Bloomer Boy lauds that guy you would think he is the best thing that's happened to baseball since the bat.   Look guys, on bostonredsoxforums.forums last fall I predicted that Bloomer Boy would trade to get Jacie Bradley back and got kidded about it.  Well we all know how that turned out so I am never surprised when our front office barfs on themselves.  Cordero should be non tendered and sent packing but I still somehow believe he will be back to pollute our lineup just as Bradley did last season and for many seasons before that.  But at least JBJ could field real well; French Fry couldn't field in the outfield and was outright pathetic at first base.  But I really hope they go through with it and send him out of Boston.

Well they cut the chord.  Free at last.

Cotillo:
Source: Red Sox have non-tendered Franchy Cordero. He is a free agent.
Those that were tendered, who were on thin ice, were Brasier (getting $2.1mil) and Josh Taylor (gets $1.1mil.

From this small sample Bloom would seem to value pitching.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 18, 2022, 05:46:55 PM
Well they cut the chord.  Free at last.

Cotillo:
Source: Red Sox have non-tendered Franchy Cordero. He is a free agent.
Those that were tendered, who were on thin ice, were Brasier (getting $2.1mil) and Josh Taylor (gets $1.1mil.

From this small sample Bloom would seem to value pitching.

Just saw it on MLB Tonight on the tube.  Oh happy day!!!!!!  I really didn't think it would happen since I have kept hearing how Bloomer Boy keeps talking up Frenchy as a real comer despite failing with the Royals and Padres before we got stuck with the bum.  I hope they don't change their minds on him as they did with Bradley last winter.  How did that turn out.  Speaking of Bradley we are not out of the woods on him either.  Toronto signed him for a pittance and are not responsible for him now but the Red Sox have to pay him for one more year guaranteed and an option for 2024.   They might stupidly come to the conclusion that since they have to pay him they might as well  take him back---and we all know what that would mean.  I sure hope that doesn't happen. Anyway not Cordero and good riddance.

A listing of the arb-eligible players not tendered is out.  Sox will pass on Bellinger, Dominic Smith, Anderson (Marlins). Having studied Bloom for three years, I see three players he will see real VALUE in signing.  Maybe 2 of the 3 will see Fenway.

Jorge Alfaro, C
While Red Sox could roll with a Reese McGuire-Connor Wong tandem, nothing is etched in stone, leaving the door open for an external addition via free agency or trade. Old friend Christian Vázquez is one option. Or Boston could splurge for someone like Willson Contreras or Sean Murphy. But Alfaro’s availability adds another door behind which the Red Sox can peek. The 29-year-old, most recently of the San Diego Padres, has offensive potential â€" which he showed in 2019 when he hit 18 home runs with 57 RBIs in 130 games (465 plate appearances) â€" despite never matching his top-100 prospect pedigree.

Alex Reyes, RHP
Reyes, once ranked the game’s No. 1 prospect by Baseball Prospectus thanks to triple-digit heat and a devastating curveball, just hasn’t been able to stay on the mound, with various injuries/surgeries limiting him to 101 career major league appearances (145 innings) since 2016. He missed all of 2022 after undergoing shoulder surgery in May. Yet, he’s a totally defensible reclamation project based on his raw stuff and the promise he’s shown even in limited action. Reyes, who will turn 29 in August, was an All-Star in 2021, a season in which he saved 29 games for the St. Louis Cardinals.

Ryan Yarbrough, LHP
Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom is familiar with Yarbrough from their time together with the Tampa Bay Rays. That alone makes him worth mentioning, even as his numbers have spiraled over the past two seasons while continuing to serve as a bulk reliever. The lefty, who will turn 31 on New Year’s Eve, had a decent run from 2018 through 2020, posting a 3.94 ERA, a 3.87 FIP and a 1.15 WHIP in that stretch thanks to very good strike throwing and a propensity for inducing weak contact.

Don't get your hopes raised even a notch but I heard something yesterday on MLB Tonight where the three hosts were predicting where the top free agents were going to land, and one of these so-called "experts, formerly the GM of the Colorado Rockies back over a decade ago who was there when they won their only league title, predicted that Trey Turner would wind up with the Red Sox.  I didn't know whether to throw some thing at my TV set or throw up.  This guy is supposed to be knowledgeable but must have just had a bad day.  Frankly I cannot see any real top notch free agent coming to our team as long as that cheap bastard of an owner keeps holding onto his wallet.  Would love to be very wrong on that but do any of you out there really think we are going to go on a real spending spree for some real talent this off season instead of our usual diving in the dumpster for miserable players?

Fred, I’ve seen a lot of really dyed-in-the-wool Sox fans think Bloom will corral one of Bogey/Devers, not both.  To drop both would cause a near fan revolt.  I think he puts $30mil in Devers pocket and lets Bogey walk. That gives him $150mil to find pitchers and an OF or two. There is a soft landing at SS.  He can put Story there for one year, and hope that the crown prince Marcelo Mayer arrives for SS sometime in 2024.  Maybe he signs a journeyman FA to help out at SS/2B, because Story and Arroyo are sure to have injuries throughout the year.  The infield solution could really backfire on Bloom, just like bargain shopping at other positions.  Not a good way to run a contender.

That may all be fairy dust.  But MGT is some weird people , I tell you.  The SS market is expected to start dropping by late Dec-Jan.  Then we’ll know who the real brain trust is in the AL/NL.  Myself, my confidence in Boston 2023 is wearing thin.  I see that NYY is closing in on a deal for Judge tonight.  Those millions could help define the market (35-40mil?).

I believe if Bloom fails to re-sign Bogey his chances of convincing Devers to stay in Boston diminish considerably.  Ortiz Pedro and Devers himself all have made it clear that such is the case.  I suspect that Dombrowski will make a major effort to sign Bogey and later Devers.

Letting Bogey walk only to pick up someone more expensive doesn't make sense.

I wonder if the Sox realize they're at a jumping off point even for lifelong fans like me.  If they don't come out of the box looking good, they're going to have a tough season in terms of ticket sales, merchandise and TV revenue.

Chaim sends message - mediocrity is our priority, signs Joely Rodriguez.  Career 1.45 WHIP and 4.56 ERA. 

Quote from: longgame on November 23, 2022, 11:24:49 AM
Chaim sends message - mediocrity is our priority, signs Joely Rodriguez.  Career 1.45 WHIP and 4.56 ERA.

I asked you and other on another thread if any of you had some info on this Joely character.  Apparently, he isn't much to write home about.  Somehow I had a feeling about that looking at his ERA. I just wonder what we really intend on doing in the next two months besides dumpster diving.

I responded over there.  My Mets fan buddy was laughing about it.  I just don't see what value he places on some of these pieces, plus he needs help for the 7th, 8th and 9th innings, not the 4th and 5th when the starter bombs out.  Unless this guy can eat innings I don't see how he fits.

This week the Sox opened up a spot on the 40 man (now 39) by releasing C Ronaldo Hernandez.  He cleared waivers and will be assigned to Worcester.  So there is an opening for the next signee.  I’m too beaten down as a Sox fan to even guess who or when that might be.  It could well be Elmer Fudd for all I know.  sigh

Monday the Sox were shopping Dalbec, it seems as a single transaction.  That move would net them maybe a bag of balls.  You would hope he could go in a multi player deal to net a decent return of one or two assets.  Rays were picking up the phone on Bobby.

Bloom is going after reliever Kahnle, surprise he was a former Yankee.
This is a journalistic gem! Do these free agents really understand our convoluted management group?  WTH.

“Red Sox looking lower in pitching market, for ‘upside, consistency, and leadership’.”

Bloom also noted Story or Kike could play SS, if Bogey departs.

Nate and Wacha are "both still possibilities."

So much talk, so little action.  They have to decide, do they want certain players or not?  If they want Bogey, get him.  If they don't, move on and make an offer to Swanson or Correa.  Zero credibility with Chaim until he does something.  I'm not holding my breath. 

Based on Blooms latest interview with Spiers, it looks like Bloom plans to stock up on Swiss Army Knives
He is looking to build a solidly mediocre team.  His goal is an 80 win team.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 06, 2022, 08:06:26 AM
Based on Blooms latest interview with Spiers, it looks like Bloom plans to stock up on Swiss Army Knives
He is looking to build a solidly mediocre team.  His goal is an 80 win team.

9 OF/1B types.  A team of Franchys.

Our new Daddy Orioles found some reason to sign Franchy.  However they did sign a decent srarting pitcher, Gibson, former Phillies.

Bloom's vision to sign 'value with an upside', is going to do nothing to sell tickets to a big fanbase.  Dombrowski and Cohen uunderstand the baseball market.  Bloom is only trying to redefine baseball to what he remembers from an Ivey League education.

The Sox apparently were going hard for Tommy Kahnle but were outbid by the Yankees.  Not too broken up that they didn't get him, but they can't even pick up the lower level guys now.  Freaking clown show. 

Another day done at the meetings done.  Going in, the Sox were addressing OF (plus power), SS, P, RP.
Yesterday a couple OF came off the table, Haniger to Giants and Berlinger to Cubs.  That likely leaves Judge and Nimmo as the two prime OF’s left, Brantley a step down, but could be a DH..  Mid level would be Conforto and Gallo.

There are musings Sox could enter into a trade for OF.  One possibility is Garrett Cooper of the Marlins, ultimate flexible - plays 1B, RF, LF. Also Soler to a lesser degree.

On the pitching front Sox outbid Rangers for lefty Andrew Heaney.  But Heaney took the Rangers offer at 2/$25m.  WHAT?  Sox bid was said to be $30-31m. Phils signed former Sox lefty Strahm.
   //Shaking my head

Judge re-signing with the Yankees - 9 years, $360MM. He'll be there until he's 40 making $40MM per.  The Sox keep dithering on their own free agents and the top end of the free agent market keeps going higher, meaning the Sox will never sign a top free agent.  Nice job by Cashman taking care of their own. 

With the Judge signing the field players are starting to fall.  The Sox needed a RH bat with plus power.  Another OF to play RF at Fenway would help.  Through Thursday, the Sox have passed on power bats Nimmo and Haniger, both gone.  Nothing to show for Bogey and Turner.

Sox did sign the little dynamo , 5-8 Yoshida, who hits from the left side. Can he learn to hit the slants of Cole, Gausman and Glasgow?  About the only RH slugger left in this small FA year is JDM.  Does he have any gas left in the tank.  Maybe Bloomer is looking for players to fall in his lap. My guess he’ll have to overpay for Correa. Other than a couple bullpen guys, MGT did little to improve a last place team. The Boston Herald has started a poll whether Henry should sell the team.  That may be the only solution out of this pile of warm garbage.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 09, 2022, 04:59:27 AM
With the Judge signing the field players are starting to fall.  The Sox needed a RH bat with plus power.  Another OF to play RF at Fenway would help.  Through Thursday, the Sox have passed on power bats Nimmo and Haniger, both gone.  Nothing to show for Bogey and Turner.

Sox did sign the little dynamo , 5-8 Yoshida, who hits from the left side. Can he learn to hit the slants of Cole, Gausman and Glasgow?  About the only RH slugger left in this small FA year is JDM.  Does he have any gas left in the tank.  Maybe Bloomer is looking for players to fall in his lap. My guess he’ll have to overpay for Correa. Other than a couple bullpen guys, MGT did little to improve a last place team. The Boston Herald has started a poll whether Henry should sell the team.  That may be the only solution out of this pile of warm garbage.

Which would be repeating last year's approach.  I can't see them getting Correa who should be getting a Trea Turner contract.  He's good, he's young, he hits, he fields.  There's no way the Sox would want to pay someone who is that good.  I just don't see where the improvement over last year is coming.  Hoping Yoshida is the real deal yet the Red Sox still don't have a ML outfield and don't even have a full infield.  Maybe there's some pitcher in some foreign country that Bloom is worried about. 

I know I gave Bloom props for the Yoshida deal but now I am having my doubts given what numerous scouts are saying.

What is puzzling is why are the Sox consistently willing to pay more for the shinny new toy than their established stars. Bloom has boxed himself in a corner.  If the Sox have another mediocre year and or if Yoshida bombs Bloom will be fired.  Heck Bloom may be fired regardless because that's  what Henry does i.e.fire GMs every four years just to keep in practice.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 09, 2022, 08:24:22 AM
I know I gave Bloom props for the Yoshida deal but now I am having my doubts given what numerous scouts are saying.

What is puzzling is why are the Sox consistently willing to pay more for the shinny new toy than their established stars. Bloom has boxed himself in a corner.  If the Sox have another mediocre year and or if Yoshida bombs Bloom will be fired.  Heck Bloom may be fired regardless because that's  what Henry does i.e.fire GMs every four years just to keep in practice.

It would be swell if Prune Face could fire himself for his malfeasance as an owner.  He started this downfall when he fired Dave Dombrowski because he wanted to become more economical (read CHEAP) back in 2019.  Absent that he would do all of us a favor by selling the team because he apparently has no desire anymore to spend the money necessary to have a contending team.  As for Bloom the very mention of his stunned reaction to Bogaerts signing tells us all we have to know about his incompetence and stupidity.  He needs to be canned as soon as possible.

The Jeter Downs experiment has failed.  Remember all the hype?  Part of the Mookie trade.  So we got Verdugo and Wong for Mookie plus cash too.  All to get rid of Price.  Great job Chaim. 

That is one seriously epic fail. I wonder where he'll end up? I'm not feeling comfy that he clears waivers.

IMO one of the reasons Downs failed was they rushed this kid through the minors.   Bloom misjudged just how ready he was.  Downs is yet another systemic failure which sem to have multiplied in the post Dombrowski ers.

They never even tried to drop him down a level to get his confidence going.  What was it, something screwy like 35AB's in AA the year before we got him? 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 15, 2022, 05:00:20 PM
That is one seriously epic fail. I wonder where he'll end up? I'm not feeling comfy that he clears waivers.

He won't and rather than release him outright when he goes unclaimed they will put him back in our system al la Franchy and other who we have DFA's and most likely will be brought up to the big club in the s ummer for another shot.  It has to be very embarrassing for the inept front office led by Bloomer Boy to keep missing on trades and prospects  He should have been fired as soon as the winter meeting were over.  Let's keep our finger crossed tightly that someone will claim him or if not we just let the bum go.  He has turned out to be a very sh itty player.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 15, 2022, 06:25:06 PM
They never even tried to drop him down a level to get his confidence going.  What was it, something screwy like 35AB's in AA the year before we got him?

Mongo----Downs did not perform well when he was a Reds prospect and when traded to the Dodgers didn't do well in their organization either.  So his failure with us makes it a hat trick.  He never showed anything with three organizations except how to strike out and make errors.  And he never hit nor played well at either of the infield positions he was tried out in.  His hitting with the three clubs was very poor, he never found footing at any  position in the infield and his strikeouts were in the stratosphere.  Maybe some team will claim him and take the time to develop him, but all see here is another Franchy Cordero who also failed with three teams---Padres, Royals and us.  Nothing else to see here so move on.

Sox DFA’d Hosmer. Surprised they didn’t try to trade him. Gallo to Twins, Beni with a 5 year deal with the Twins.  Sox pick up guy named Wyatt Mills who is 0-1 with a 6.21 for his career.  Another stellar pick up by Bloom.

This looks like another guy who will be DFAd in six months.  Bloom reminds me of the gin rummy player who never gets gin but keeps picking and discarding cards.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 16, 2022, 07:53:50 PM
This looks like another guy who will be DFAd in six months.  Bloom reminds me of the gin rummy player who never gets gin but keeps picking and discarding cards.

Bloomer’s legacy, he wrote a manual in Tampa, The Rays Way”.  From his Boston years, he is working on a manuscript , “How I was able to bring a proud franchise to its knees.”

Sox have I think, about $20mil to spend (to be under LT line). Ive seen ideas they spend that on a SP (Eovaldi?) and  corner OF (Mancini, Conforto ??). 

For 2B/ SS they have been mentioned for Jean Segura this week (contract demand around $5mil AAV for multi years) And  have been shopping Verdugo(?) and prospects with Miami for SS Miguel Rojas and a pitcher.  Also with Brewers for Adames.  Those trades arent  showing much progress.  Other clubs probably think Sox are desparate and will now overpay/over-trade for players.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 20, 2022, 07:07:31 AM
Sox have I think, about $20mil to spend (to be under LT line). Ive seen ideas they spend that on a SP (Eovaldi?) and  corner OF (Mancini, Conforto ??). 

For 2B/ SS they have been mentioned for Jean Segura this week (contract demand around $5mil AAV for multi years) And  have been shopping Verdugo(?) and prospects with Miami for SS Miguel Rojas and a pitcher.  Also with Brewers for Adames.  Those trades arent  showing much progress.  Other clubs probably think Sox are desparate and will now overpay/over-trade for players.

If this is true someone quickly kidnap Bloomer Bum and keep him out out of the way. Eovaldi?  Fine.  He belongs with us and has produced when he can stay healthy.  Mancini?  Yes;   he is a RH hitter.  Conforto? NO!!!!!!!  We cannot get overly loaded with LH hitters with so many good southpaws in our division.  Shop Verdugo???? 

The long knives are out for Buddy Bloom.  Unnamed FO underlings are criticizing Blooms decision making process.  They say he is too slow and consults too many people before deciding anything.  I think I and others were saying the same thing over a year ago. 
The problem isn't that he is not only indecisive and too deliberate but when he does make a decision it is usually thee wrong one. 

I know of no Boston sportwriter, analyst or baseball professional supporting this guy with the exception of those on Henry's payroll. 

The questions are how much long can he last ?  Who will be gone from Boston first,  Devers or Bloom ?  How long after Devers signs with another team before Bloom is fired? 

I haven't heard a single person come out and say what a great job that Bloom is doing other than his pals at the Fenway Propaganda Ministry.  From national to local press to your average Johnny from Burger King we can see what a disaster they've become.  The sad thing is we've been saying the same thing for a while as we watched how these moves translated to a poorer team every time.  So discouraging because you don't recover from this overnight as the organization gets flooded with worthless prospects that Bloom traded away guys for and has limited room to move anymore.

I think the worst things now that the Sox could do are trades involving anyone not on the MLB Roster. His swan song could be to make asinine trades and dismantle the next few years of prospects coming up. Then we'd be left with nothing.

I read a good observation the other day.  Henry appears to some to be readying the Red Sox for another owner, just like he is Liverpool.  Those two sports are suffering from no salary cap.  Henry’s obsession could well be the NHL Penguins, followed by an NBA team or the NFL, if he can purchase the Commanders.  Those three sports have established a salary cap to keep the bidding for players within reason.

To make matters worse the state of Mass. has increased their millionaires tax from 5% to 9%.  Thereby causing a higher bid for players to keep the net salaries equitable. 

I read the other day that buyers for the Washington NFL team will need at least a Billion in cash as up front money to buy the team estimated to go for several billion.  It has always been my view that is the reason for Henry's financial restrictions on Bloom.