Bloom should go

[SeaBeachFred]

I certainly agree.  Bringing high quality FA pitchers seems to work in the short run.  But there is something fundamentally wrong with the way pitchers are handled once they get here.  Every team has injuries but the Sox seem to have more than most.  If it were my team I would want to know why..

Isn't that par for the course with Tampa, too? Seems like everyone that comes through that system is toast before they can ever reach FA. Some of the better ones are shadows of themselves by the time they're 28 years old. Kasmir, Snell and Archer (who we'll see tonight) to name a few. Glasnow's out since last year, IIRC. Price was OK long enough to soak Dombrowski for $225M. What was left of him went into the dirt after 2018 WS. For the most part, there was always something wrong with him for most of his time here.
(Price's 1st and 3rd years were 35 and 32 starts, so not as bad as I recalled. ERA up a little, though.)

You are right Mongo but I have to defend Price with all my energy.  The guy won we over in 2018 as a leader in the clubhouse and a clutch man in the Playoffs.  After another hiccup against the Yankees in the ALDS he blew away the Astros in the ALCS and creamed the Dodgers twice to give us the title.  Yes, his price was staggering and he may not have gotten all that we could from it, but from where I sit what we got was enough to put David into my pantheon of favorite Red Sox players.  He gave us what we needed.

[Sea Dog 23]

John Tomase / Yahoo doesn’t think the Sox can see daylight until maybe 2024.  The road ahead for baby Bloom

“Forget about building a championship roster -- the Red Sox will need to extend themselves just to field a representative team. As things stand now, only four offensive starters remain under contract for next season: second baseman Trevor Story, third baseman Rafael Devers, left fielder Alex Verdugo, and catcher Reese McGuire, who's technically a career backup. If you want to throw in veteran first baseman Eric Hosmer, that's five, but he's a candidate to be moved, especially with the Padres basically paying the remainder of his salary.

“The pitching staff is equally ill-defined. The only guaranteed starters are Chris Sale (gulp), Nick Pivetta, and Brayan Bello. The only surefire relievers are Matt Barnes (again, gulp) and John Schreiber, with Tanner Houck and Garrett Whitlock factoring into one unit or the other. There will probably be a home for Kutter Crawford, too.

“That means the Red Sox will enter the offseason potentially in the market for a first baseman, middle infielder, two outfielders, and a DH. They'll need at least two starters no matter what they do with Houck and Whitlock, and potentially as  many as five relievers.”

“That is, quite frankly, insane. No one wants to build an entire roster in one winter, even a team like the Red Sox that projects to have about $140 million to spend under the $233 million luxury tax threshold. That's an exercise in futility, because the odds of hitting on that many players are low.

“And yet, in an interview with The Athletic, Red Sox CEO Sam Kennedy said he believes the turnaround could be swift.

“Kennedy insists Cora and Bloom will be back with Red Sox in 2023
"To be looking up at the American League East at this point of the year is painful and frustrating," he said. "And frankly we deserve the criticism we're getting. We've got to own that. It's on us. But we've been around here a long time and we're prepared to turn things around quickly here as we head into '23."

“That's easier said than done, especially in a division with the Orioles already pushing for a playoff spot despite barely dipping into baseball's best farm system. Catcher Adley Rutschman is only the start of Baltimore's talent wave. And we're not even mentioning the Yankees, Rays, and Blue Jays, who'd all be playoff-bound if the season ended today.

“The Red Sox, meanwhile, may be able to fill first base with prospect Triston Casas. They can surely find a home for the oft-injured Christian Arroyo, a tantalizing offensive talent who has yet to prove he can play every day. Maybe they find a way to re-sign shortstop Xander Bogaerts if his market doesn't materialize elsewhere.”

[elktonnick]

I agree with Tomase. The team is in big hole
I.can not see Bloom having the capability to get them out of the mess they are in, since it is largely one of his own making. 

One also has to question whether Cora is up to the job as well.  Cora seems confused by the sloppy play which has marked this team all year.  He acts like a disinterested observer who has no role in either causing or resolving the situation.

I just do not see both Bloom or Cora being.around a year from now. One or the other or both will either quit or be fired before 24 spring training.

[MongoLikeSox]

It's a tall task. Bloom's way out of character to be the one to fill that many spots. He's obsessed with value to the point where he takes big chances to get that value. It's more important than team chemistry, and he'll risk major deficiencies to snag a plus skill within the same player.

Give Bloom $50M to go get 5 relievers and he'll come back with 2 starters coming off three down years each, a closer down 4MPH, one guy recovering from TJ and two 3rd baseman.

And the all around player? Please. Not going to happen. Guys, look at the Trevor Story signing. He did not want to come here. We got him because his agents dragged ass, partially because of the Freddie Freeman debacle that was ongoing(same agents). Teams that WERE interested switched gears and looked elsewhere. We were the last suitors. That drove the price down and the perceived value up and poof, our big free agent signing happened. Turned out to be a great 2nd baseman, but big K numbers, low batting averages and streaky hitting were the deficiencies that came with chasing the last big name standing.  Ended up being a very good defender, though. :)

[MongoLikeSox]

I certainly agree.  Bringing high quality FA pitchers seems to work in the short run.  But there is something fundamentally wrong with the way pitchers are handled once they get here.  Every team has injuries but the Sox seem to have more than most.  If it were my team I would want to know why..

Isn't that par for the course with Tampa, too? Seems like everyone that comes through that system is toast before they can ever reach FA. Some of the better ones are shadows of themselves by the time they're 28 years old. Kasmir, Snell and Archer (who we'll see tonight) to name a few. Glasnow's out since last year, IIRC. Price was OK long enough to soak Dombrowski for $225M. What was left of him went into the dirt after 2018 WS. For the most part, there was always something wrong with him for most of his time here.
(Price's 1st and 3rd years were 35 and 32 starts, so not as bad as I recalled. ERA up a little, though.)

You are right Mongo but I have to defend Price with all my energy.  The guy won we over in 2018 as a leader in the clubhouse and a clutch man in the Playoffs.  After another hiccup against the Yankees in the ALDS he blew away the Astros in the ALCS and creamed the Dodgers twice to give us the title.  Yes, his price was staggering and he may not have gotten all that we could from it, but from where I sit what we got was enough to put David into my pantheon of favorite Red Sox players.  He gave us what we needed.

We are polar opposites on Price. Sure, he was a leader, but I've always thought of him as a "ring-leader", as in trouble maker type. I didn't even like Pedey for a while because of Price. Just too much nonsense. But that's just me. He finally turned in a great post season in 2018. I'll probably always believe he did so knowing he might be hurting his future. It's a great thing when the teams' path and a star's legacy become intertwined. The other behind the scene things I can live without. 

[elktonnick]

It's a tall task. Bloom's way out of character to be the one to fill that many spots. He's obsessed with value to the point where he takes big chances to get that value. It's more important than team chemistry, and he'll risk major deficiencies to snag a plus skill within the same player.

Give Bloom $50M to go get 5 relievers and he'll come back with 2 starters coming off three down years each, a closer down 4MPH, one guy recovering from TJ and two 3rd baseman.

And the all around player? Please. Not going to happen. Guys, look at the Trevor Story signing. He did not want to come here. We got him because his agents dragged ass, partially because of the Freddie Freeman debacle that was ongoing(same agents). Teams that WERE interested switched gears and looked elsewhere. We were the last suitors. That drove the price down and the perceived value up and poof, our big free agent signing happened. Turned out to be a great 2nd baseman, but big K numbers, low batting averages and streaky hitting were the deficiencies that came with chasing the last big name standing.  Ended up being a very good defender, though. :)

You make an interesting point about Bloom
  One I totally agree with,  He'd rather buy two Swiss Army Knives than one good Bowie knife.

[longgame]

I'm with Mongo on Price.  He had some moments, but without the dominance of Sale and then we had to pay him to pitch somewhere else he was a bust.

As for next year, if they think this group is capable of turning this core around with so many fundamental flaws in the organization, we're in trouble.  Just the thought that Bello is one of our "solid" starters is frightening.  We signed Paxton for one year and got exactly nothing to show for it.  Nice signing there Bloom.  I wonder who next year's bench riders we'll have to keep Sale comfortable as he breaks his arm because a butterfly landed on it.  An entire bullpen doesn't scare me as much since it's always a crapshoot, but they'll need to spend money on a closer.  As Tomase mentioned, they need to figure out Houck's and Whitlock's roles and they have to do that now.  Let them stretch out over the winter if that's the plan. 

On the field I'm really torn about Bogaerts.  He's a low key leader but a leader nonetheless.  I'm disappointed that we find out that he's been playing hurt for some time once again.  But they could do a lot worse at SS at at time when they have a lot of other positions to fill.  They need to make a decision there also sooner rather than later so they're not tied up dealing with that when they need to build an outfield.  I'd be happy if that whole group was gone.

One more thing, a bit unrelated. O'Brien goes off incessantly about how the Sox lead the league in doubles.  Normally that's a good thing but it's clearly an indication of their power outage this year.  It's great to have a lot of doubles - if you have a lot of homers to go with them.  But the Sox don't hit homers anymore even though they're in a hitters' park.  Go figure. 

[MongoLikeSox]

Let's look back to November 1st, 2021. Still stinging, but excited. We came close and had enough money to make up the difference. The 1B market did stink to high hell if you look beyond Freddy Freeman and the one that replaced him. That aside, we had a hugely improved CF in Kike, Verdugo had a decent 1st full season in Left and an entertaining, but clumsy RF;er who learned how to hit some. Devers, Bogey, Arroyo and Dalbec in the infield and a good Catching tandem. We needed arms.

Enter Bloom. He took a massive gamble on JBJ, thinking he would regain 2020 form coming back to Boston. For that, he would gain lots of defense. It would cost us 10 HRs, and 25 RBI's and that's IF THE PLAN WORKED. Can he make up for 25 runs? Maybe not. Could he make up for 25 runs minus the runs that Renfroe was costing us by not making plays regardless of official score keeping. You know, maybe. That could have happened.

So then he looks around the infield and sees Arroyo as getting PT as a sub and playing RF because any infielder can play RF in Fenway. Pffft, I mean, who can't? That could help make up for some tuns against tough lefties and cover up JBJ's short comings. Only now we need a 2B. So we go get a SS a couple weeks into ST. He has to make a transition to 2B, and he's got weaknesses of his own with K-rates and not the best batting average. Swing built for Fenway, though. Nothing's perfect. In theory, we gain 10-15 HRs, 25RBI's with Story over Arroyo and still get some out of Arroyo as primary backup.

So, we pay JBJ's $10M and Story's $20M. We do get off the hook for Renfroe's $7.6M. We're down $23M. What have we gained over the 2021 season IF everything worked out? Better RF defense when JBJ's in there, and we don't have to risk losing so much due to Arroyo's injury history.

Am I missing something here? Wouldn't it have just been easier to stick with what we had and used that money for a need?

[Sea Dog 23]

Mongo, I think another gamble Bloom took in the 21 offseason was expecting all those 21 players to repeat career years performance for all of them in 22. 

Then he subtracted Renfroe and Schwarber, and thought Franchy could be coached up.  WRONG.  Then all the front line SPs got hurt throughout the year.  But they were long in the tooth, which he should have factored in anyways. And extended Barnes instead of getting a solid pitcher at the trade deadline.

[longgame]

And those moves and the resulting performances have brought us to where we are today as a fan base.  Legitimately questioning whether Bloom has a clue or not.  So far it doesn't look good.  But if the Sox are committed to him, they all better hope he knocks it out of the park this offseason.  I wouldn't bet on that because now the task is pretty big and he hasn't shown that he understand the game or how to evaluate talent.  The problem is that we as fans will have to live with his moves for a few years. 

[elktonnick]

Bloom is a plodder. The holes are so many and his approach is so slow. I can not see him moving with any alacrity to accomplish half of what needs to be done.

His first task is to come to terms with Bogaerts.  Will Bogaerts agents be willing to close a deal soon rather than later.  If the talks are drawn out will Bloom be prepared to move on?  I think timing is going to be a huge issue.  I just do not see Bloom as decisive enough to move quickly.  I expect a long painful off season.  The Bogaerts deal will give us all an early indication of how the off season will play itself out. I am not optimistic.