Bosox Board

I am curious.  How many think 1.  Bloom will be able to resign Bogaerts. 2  Bloom is able to get Devers to agree to an extension. 3 Bloom will make moves that will make Boston a likely playoff contenderin 2023
For the record I think he will go 0 for 3.

Quote from: elktonnick on November 27, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
I am curious.  How many think 1.  Bloom will be able to resign Bogaerts. 2  Bloom is able to get Devers to agree to an extension. 3 Bloom will make moves that will make Boston a likely playoff contenderin 2023
For the record I think he will go 0 for 3.

He certainly won't get three for three, nor will be get two for three, but I have to believe in one of my naive moments Elk that he might be able to accomplish one of those tasks----or am I just being a damn fool to think that he can do anything of the kind?

Based on his performance since joining the Sox it's not clear he'll make any positive moves.  I just can't help but be pessimistic.  Remember last year's deal with Story was done very late, after everyone else passed on him so Bloom figured he could win that one.  Then the guy wasn't ready, then he was injured.  Bloom needs the Sox to enter camp with a full roster, one that is improved over last year - which shouldn't be too tough to do. 

No, no and no.

Anyone look at the kid we gave up for this depth piece infielder from the Pirates? He was DFA'd before the trade. As with DFA trades, I had thought the trade would have been for some 21 year old struggling for his 3rd straight year in short season ball with an ERA north of 6. Wrong. It was an 18 year old kid who made 5 starts in the DSL that produced a 0.82 ERA, 0.77 WHIP with 28 K's in 22 IP. For that, we get DFA fodder from one of the worst teams in the league. Versatility with a massive strikeout rate. He does not do a thing for our large strikeout, low contact problem. He does have a little bit of speed and some pop, as they say. That's not the point. We over-paid AND tied up a roster spot. Oh, and he's another fringe power LH bat. Oh goodie!!!

I'm still stunned at the pathetic moves Bloom has made so far. I'm really sick of signing some low-rent, otherwise destined for a small market back of the pen fodder because we liked the peripherals. Neither of these two MLB moves help the team improve. A twist of lyrics from the Who song - Come meet the new depth - same as the old depth.

The move to sign Crook to a Minor League deal? Perfect. Low risk. Bingo! Sign me up. Good job. If called to action, will he do well? Who knows? The big K numbers look similar to Park's, yes, but at least we didn't give anyone up for him.

FWIW, our 40-man roster is at 40 men. We have to trade or DFA a player to match any acquisitions. Not a total bad thing, but we are handcuffed ATM.

The success of Bloom this off season will be tempered by moves from Preller at SD,  Dombrowski, and Eppler.  Those guys as well as Cashman, will set the market. Our Ops guy is a junior scout when those guys start dealing.  If Henry had any moxie, he would go out and steal Dipoto from the Mariners.

Blooms style last year was to let all the cards get played until Story had no where else to go. Correa was in the same boat, maybe Dansby Swanson this year.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on November 28, 2022, 01:47:50 PM
The success of Bloom this off season will be tempered by moves from Preller at SD,  Dombrowski, and Eppler.  Those guys as well as Cashman, will set the market. Our Ops guy is a junior scout when those guys start dealing.  If Henry had any moxie, he would go out and steal Dipoto from the Mariners.

Blooms style last year was to let all the cards get played until Story had no where else to go. Correa was in the same boat, maybe Dansby Swanson this year.

How can such a person coming from an organization that prides itself on development of young talent and smart baseball men could have produced a total moron like Bloom which they foisted on us?  The guy is ignorant, stupid, incompetent and a total turkey.  Either he is all that or behind the curtain pulling the puppet strings lies Prune Face who is determined not to spend diddly squat to improve his team and hopes the pollyannas and pink hats will again be dumb enough to buy the tickets, food, gifts and baseball treats to carry him over for another lousy year.  Right now we've signed three rejects from other teams and not one decent player of any kind.

Purportedly the Sox were eyeing Abreu as a DH and a JD Martinez replacement.  Well The Astros once again beat our slow footed VP for Baseball OPS to the punch.   I think the moniker "Day late and a dollar short" is going to stick to Bloom like glue.

Abreu is one of the many who suffered large HR drops last season.  He still hit .304, though, and should really do well in Houston without changing a thing. 3-year deal worth approx $20M per.

This is where the Red Sox will let their press department start trickling out whispers of the XB delay handcuffing the team and it's ability to maneuver for the off-season.

That said, I'd rather see a significant catcher or Left Fielder for that money. Ain't gonna happen, but it's what I'd like to see. I'd like to see more than that thrown into the BP. That ain't gonna happen, either. My cynical side is showing.

Personally I hope the OF they sign is Michael Brantley.  Hits well at Fenway (Twins, Astros) in 2022 .288/.418/.788 about 14% K rate. lifetime .298 hitter. Only downside his power level was off last year from injuries, has 127 career homers.

Quote from: elktonnick on November 28, 2022, 04:15:16 PM
Purportedly the Sox were eyeing Abreu as a DH and a JD Martinez replacement.  Well The Astros once again beat our slow footed VP for Baseball OPS to the punch.   I think the moniker "Day late and a dollar short" is going to stick to Bloom like glue.

3 year deal for a 36 year old guy?  I'm glad he passed.  The Sox would get him, then in a year send him and prospects for a reliever.  Just as well at this point.  They need either short term guys or long term guys who make sense.  Abreu doesn't fit either. 

Here's the thing.  According to John Heyman, Jose Abreu was one of Boston"s top priorities.  Now whether he should have been is not the issue. Once again they did not get the prize they sought. This has been the pattern throughout the Bloom tenure thus far.  They fail.  This does not inspire any confidence that Bloom will be successful at signing his other top priorities, Bogaerts and the Devers extension.

Quote from: elktonnick on November 29, 2022, 05:28:26 PM
Here's the thing.  According to John Heyman, Jose Abreu was one of Boston"s top priorities.  Now whether he should have been is not the issue. Once again they did not get the prize they sought. This has been the pattern throughout the Bloom tenure thus far.  They fail.  This does not inspire any confidence that Bloom will be successful at signing his other top priorities, Bogaerts and the Devers extension.

It would be interesting to learn HOW and WHY we failed.

Should we have targeted him at all? You're right. That really is a whole other set of issues on more than one front.

I think they are either scaming us by dropping these little tid bits of their going after this player or that whom they have no intention of signing or they are so incompetent they underestimate the market entirely.

Maserati raises some good points today.  Sox stated they’re not bidding for elite SPitchers.  They have shown no interest in elite relievers (Diaz, Montes of Houston).

Also he is concerned  the top players like Abrieu would turn down a Sox offer to play for a winner, Houston in this case.  The desire to play in the post season could draw Bogey out of Boston to Philly or San Diego.  This week Eppler asked Bogey if he could play 2B or 1B. Or he could move SS Tatis Jr to OF.  Does any player value playing in Boston any more?  MGT might have poisoned the water for what’s left of the franchise.  My lizard brain tells me Casas, Yorke and Mayer will soon be the heart of the ‘new’ Sox.

Also, he was our #1 priority?  We need more 1Bs?  We have Casas, Hosmer, Dalbec.  We need an OF and a SS and a C.  What was he going to do, move Casas to the outfield?  What Sox priorities should be:

1 - Sign Bogey or tell him to kiss off
2 - After doing this and creating more work for yourself, find a SS to replace him.
3 - A closer
4 - A top of the rotation starter
5 - A RH OF bat

Those last 3 of course could be equal priority.  But none of those priorities should have been a 1B.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on November 30, 2022, 05:44:14 AM

Quote from: elktonnick on November 29, 2022, 05:28:26 PM
Here's the thing.  According to John Heyman, Jose Abreu was one of Boston"s top priorities.  Now whether he should have been is not the issue. Once again they did not get the prize they sought. This has been the pattern throughout the Bloom tenure thus far.  They fail.  This does not inspire any confidence that Bloom will be successful at signing his other top priorities, Bogaerts and the Devers extension.

It would be interesting to learn HOW and WHY we failed.

Should we have targeted him at all? You're right. That really is a whole other set of issues on more than one front.

We failed for a one word......OUTBID, and that is a word you will hear time and again this off season.  The team right now does NOT  want to spend and though my opinion of Bloom is at rock bottom, I simply cannot believe he is that rancid as a BO director.  I still see Prune Face Henry dangling the wires behind the screen.  Still I agree that he was not a good choice for our rebuilding team, but being outbid is a hint of what is to come.

Quote from: elktonnick on November 30, 2022, 07:14:44 AM
I think they are either scaming us by dropping these little tid bits of their going after this player or that whom they have no intention of signing or they are so incompetent they underestimate the market entirely.

Take your choice of answers Elk both are pretty much accurate as this point.  Maybe Henry will suddenly come out of his stupor and suddenly decide that finishing last again next season would bring a torrent of insults, abuse and calumny down on his shaky skull.

Quote from: longgame on November 30, 2022, 08:43:59 AM
Also, he was our #1 priority?  We need more 1Bs?  We have Casas, Hosmer, Dalbec.  We need an OF and a SS and a C.  What was he going to do, move Casas to the outfield?  What Sox priorities should be:

1 - Sign Bogey or tell him to kiss off
2 - After doing this and creating more work for yourself, find a SS to replace him.
3 - A closer
4 - A top of the rotation starter
5 - A RH OF bat

Those last 3 of course could be equal priority.  But none of those priorities should have been a 1B.

Right Ted---but why should you, Mongo, Elk, and the rest of our crew seem to know a helluva lot more than those dweebs who are running this shit show in Boston.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on November 30, 2022, 11:07:00 AM

Quote from: longgame on November 30, 2022, 08:43:59 AM
Also, he was our #1 priority?  We need more 1Bs?  We have Casas, Hosmer, Dalbec.  We need an OF and a SS and a C.  What was he going to do, move Casas to the outfield?  What Sox priorities should be:

1 - Sign Bogey or tell him to kiss off
2 - After doing this and creating more work for yourself, find a SS to replace him.
3 - A closer
4 - A top of the rotation starter
5 - A RH OF bat

Those last 3 of course could be equal priority.  But none of those priorities should have been a 1B.

Right Ted---but why should you, Mongo, Elk, and the rest of our crew seem to know a helluva lot more than those dweebs who are running this shit show in Boston.

From what I've seen in other platforms, the consensus is that he's flailing and failing.  Except for the pink hats who think if you criticize the team you're somehow not a fan. I never got that.  If I like the team I'm going to criticize them for not playing well.   If I didn't like the team I wouldn't care and would be laughing at them like all of MLB is doing. 

The Front Office continues to be tone deaf. The focus of the Red Sox is obviously maximizing profit on the backs of the fans.  After another last place finish/division, Henry and the gang have again raised prices at the gate,  elected to add corporate patches to the uni’s like they were racing car drivers, while letting the market play out while looking for best value in the mid-tier talent.

I suppose they’ll say later on they spent most of their time and money chasing Bogaerts and Devers.

I don't think anybody, anywhere can say anything than the Red Sox need massive top-level bullpen help.

The massive failure at this year's trade deadline is going to be felt for a long, long time. It was as bad a failure as the Red Sox before and after the lockout this past off season.

It's happening all over again, too. Go look at what we gave up for Hoy Park, a depth piece who a massive K-rate, horrible batting average who was a DFA trade from one of the worst teams in baseball. (to save you time - the player they got is named Inmer Lobo) 

Meanwhile, my poster-boy for all that is wrong with the Red Sox system - Ryan Fitzgerald -  loses hope and still hit better than this guy. Too bad he didn't get traded for by Bloom. He might be starting next year. Happy Politics!!!

Kennedy hinted yesterday that several offers were out and “a deal could be imminent”.  That could be OF /DH Mitch Haniger, former Mariners.  He hit .248 in 2022 ( salary $7.7m) , limited by a few injuries.  Rangers are said to be the other contender. The caveat, he only played 57 games last year and has missed 270 games in the last several years.

“The veteran outfielder is a career .261 hitter and has been just below that mark in recent years, but has serious pop in his bat and could fill an important role as a right-handed slugger, something the Red Sox outfield has not boasted since they traded away Hunter Renfroe.”

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 01, 2022, 11:40:08 AM
Kennedy hinted yesterday that several offers were out and “deal could be imminent”.  That could be OF Mitch Haniger, former Mariners.  He hit .248 in 2022 ( salary $7.7m) , limited by a few injuries.  Rangers are said to be the other contender

“The veteran outfielder is a career .261 hitter and has been just below that mark in recent years, but has serious pop in his bat and could fill an important role as a right-handed slugger, something the Red Sox outfield has not boasted since they traded away Hunter Renfroe.”

Doesn't light the world on fire but it's a good indication of where they are where a journeyman OF is considered a big move for this club. 

Haniger can hang with the big boys power numbers save for the elite. Strike out rate ain't great. but we've had worse. This is an agreeable bridge type signing if they can pull it off. Beats the snot out of Peraza-Park types. We don't have to go out power shopping with big Daddy's Visa to make this team work. Well, I say that thinking Bogey. If he goes, we'll need more.

Anyone seen the first rumor on Eovaldi? I wonder if that's an imminent happening for us? It could be decided and agreed upon except we'd have to eliminate a player from the roster within x-days of an official signing. 

So interestingly enough the Sox gave an offer to Zach Eflin who turned around to the Rays and they said they'd match it and did the deal.  The Sox got played by a mid level pitcher and the Rays.  I'm guessing the Rays were happy to see Chaim go just for this reason.  I'm not upset about the deal, I know very little about Eflin, but the fact that the Sox wanted him and couldn't close the deal is bothersome.  Meanwhile the Rays took a page from the Yankees playbook by telling him to get an offer and we'll match it.  Sox need to pay guys if they want to get them.   

This is what they've done to the Red Sox, where someone would rather go to Tampa to play in front of 100s every night, rather than what used to be the center of the baseball universe. 

The pattern continues.  The Red Sox target a player, make an offer only to be out bid by another team.  In essence, Blooms low ball negotiating style will result in a team capable of low ball results.  At present this team isn't  capable of winning 75 ball games but will be filled of "high value" in Blooms mind at least players.

The baseball world knows full well the ship-wreck in Boston. They had to over-pay Kike to stay an extra year, and it was really nothing more than a fluff move to try and calm players' ire. I do wonder if this was one of the moves Kennedy was expecting to happen?

There was a lengthy article in the Athletic yesterday, which included comments by team prez, Kennedy. Amongst other bits we've already discussed was the assertions that the organization is in much better shape than it was 3 years ago, and that it is now ready to take the next big set of steps. A reader in the comment section called Kennedy the "Baghdad Bob" of the Red Sox world. Priceless. Made my day.

This has more than that angle. If you were a pitcher and wanted to get better, would you go to Boston or Tampa? Just saying that Tampa does have the pitcher development reputation in their favor in addition to less public scrutiny and the players seem less unhappy. Perhaps Eflin wanted no more of the latter considering he's been in Philadelphia since 2016. 

The spin is already up on the Athletic. We lost him for home town concerns, Eflin stated as being from Orlando, and the Red Sox never had a chance to bid beyond what they thought the player wanted.

The article also said they thought they had him locked up, or whatever the term was.

Is this the first time we've known that Kennedy has been involved in all of this hot-stove stuff? This seems unusual to me.

My opinion, Kennedy is playing his part in good-cop-bad-cop.  But the PR is taking a hit this week in Boston.  For pitching they’ll now have to overbid for Senger (Japan) or Kluber, otherwise Bloom goes into the winter meetings looking like more of a nothingburger than he was last week. 

They’ve already said they want no part of the Verlander-DeGrom sweepstakes.  The numbers of mid-level arms are starting to get thinner.  Anybody looking for a strong return of Sale/Paxton is forgetting how many IP’s thoseguys have pitched the last couple of years.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 02, 2022, 09:11:15 AM
The spin is already up on the Athletic. We lost him for home town concerns, Eflin stated as being from Orlando, and the Red Sox never had a chance to bid beyond what they thought the player wanted.

The article also said they thought they had him locked up, or whatever the term was.

Is this the first time we've known that Kennedy has been involved in all of this hot-stove stuff? This seems unusual to me.

Why Mongo????  It is a prime example of resetting the deck chairs on the Titanic, one incompetent aiding another incompetent in a race of incompetent of the year.  Once again, keep in mind that word I started using two or three days ago........OUTBID!!!!!!!!!

This afternoon Sox signed RH Chris Martin, former LAD, 2/$17.5mil. A bullpen arm 1.46 era for LAD, 0.527 WHIP in last 26 games,  4.31 era with the Cubs early last year.  He was picked up by Dodgers at the trade deadline last year from Cubs.  It says he pitched two scoreless innings agaist the Padres.

Martin pitched for Atlanta in thier championship year 2019(?).  He is a 6-8 dude and velo was at 95 last year.  On the downside he is 36 yo, and had a rough start in ‘22 with Cubs. Signed with the Sox in 2011 after a bad shoulder injury and was out of baseball for 3 years.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 02, 2022, 03:42:10 PM
This afternoon Sox signed RH Chris Martin, former LAD, 2/$17.5mil. A bullpen arm 1.46 era last year. I don't remember seeing him last year LAD after 4.31 with the Cubs early last year.  He was picked up by Dodgers at the trade deadline last year from Cubs.  It says he pitched two scoreless innings agaist the Padres.

Martin pitched for Atlanta in thier championship year 2019(?).  He is a 6-8 dude and velo was at 95 last year.  On the downside he is 36 yo, and had a rough start in ‘22 with Cubs. Signed with the Sox in 2011 after a bad shoulder injury and was out of baseball for 3 years.

Sounds like the prototypical Bloom signing
  Bet he spends more time on the IL next two years than he pitches.

Looks like he K'd 11.4 per 9IP with the Cubs and 12.5 with the Dodger last year. 6.9 the year before with the Braves and over 10 in 2019 and 2020. 46-60 appearances past 3 non-Pandemic seasons with ERA's in the 3's. That's a 4 season track record with one injury and otherwise decent consistency. If Cora doesn't get over-zealous with the hot-hand thing....

Not great or game changing, but not horrible. Bloomer's done far worse.

Edit - The Red Sox xnagged him out of the Independent league after the 2010 season at the age of 24. The big hole in his stats between 2015 with the Yankees and 2018 with the Rangers is 2 years in Japan throwing on the low 1's ERA in 52 and 41 games. Since bombing for the Bombers in 2015, his worst season anywhere was 2018 with Texas at 4.54 ERA. Been decent to OK for the most part since.

This could turn out to be a good signing for the Red Sox, certainly better than the other three moves they made.  Martin pitched for both the Cubs and Dodgers this past season, average for the Cubs and outstanding for the Dodgers who have a very outstanding pitching coach.  He had an outstanding 74-5 strikeout to walk ratio over his 56 innings and the batters hit 135 against him.  He was one of their best relievers the last part of the season  Hey when you strike out 11.9 batters over an average of nine innings you have something going for you.  We needed a little shot in the arm and may have gotten it.  It would also means they are thinking of making Whitlock a starter next season.  Hell, sure beats the three duds we got in previous trades so far.

Martin is better than the slop Bloom usually goes for so I’m okay with it.  You need arms in the bullpen and hopefully this keeps Brasier another inning away from blowing games.  The bullpen is a definite concern but we all want him to focus on their deeper needs for position players which hopefully this week will lead to. 

BTW apparently Bogey has said that he’d bring any offer back to the Sox for them to match so this will get interesting.  If you can pay a guy who will play 60 innings $8M, maybe you can pay a guy who will play every game. 

I am not impressed at all with the Martin signing at all.  I might feel differently if Bloom had signed some blue chippers.  So instead of his usual nickel and dime deals he signed a guy worth two bits because of his injury record.  Bloom keeps nibbling around the edges. Even if he manages to sign Bogey and that's a big if, he still would have put together at best a 500 ball club assuming everyone can stay healthy.

I myself will wait until Jan 1 until the WTF sets in.  There have only been about three big deals done so far. After a few tablesetters we got,  I think there is about $62 mil still on hand (give $27-29 to Bogey).
A trade is probably in the works next two weeks for a P or OF.  Like we all know, it’s year 4 and time for Chaim/Henry to produce.  No excuses, no crap from the NESN guys.

So this was a quiet little move. It's only represented on the MLB Transactions list as a 12/2 move. They sent Ronaldo Hernandez "outright" to Worcester. That clears the space for the Martin signing. That also means Hernandez had to go through and clear Waivers, which is not listed anywhere.

Hernandez' numbers took a dive after a good Summer where he had a very consistent 300-ish average from end of May well into August, IIRC. This was after a very bad start. They like his bat and arm, but not his total body of work behind the plate. Probably the only Bloomer acquisition to not get much of a MLB chance when he rode the pine for a few games in Boston.

He'll be in ST camp of course, and has the RH bat that you'd think would make an impression. Still time, but next year is his age 25 year. In 105 games he hit 17 HRs, .262 BA with only a 22% K-rate. Also makes him infinitely easier to trade as he will not cost the other team a 40-man slot.

According to Peter Abraham the Red Sox have not yet made a competitive offer to Bogaerts.  This certainly supports the thesis that the FO is scamming their fans about their sincerity to re-sign Bogey

Quote from: elktonnick on December 04, 2022, 05:48:35 PM
According to Peter Abraham the Red Sox have not yet made a competitive offer to Bogaerts.  This certainly supports the thesis that the FO is scamming their fans about their sincerity to re-sign Bogey

The SS market looks like it is about to break.  A story today that Swanson will sign (with someone) on Dec 9.  Not sure what to make of this Bogey thing, maybe Boras bluster.  But someone is either lying, or another somone will look like a fool.

The Red Sox have a plausible argument for their BS speak, should that be the case. Bloomer will rely on his, "It has to be smart for the team" mantra. Then he'll go on to describe some team assembly metaphors in some condescending, nurturing way to the press, some of them I have developed some small amount of sorrow for.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 04, 2022, 05:48:35 PM
According to Peter Abraham the Red Sox have not yet made a competitive offer to Bogaerts.  This certainly supports the thesis that the FO is scamming their fans about their sincerity to re-sign Bogey

I've seen this reported. If true, it's damning and maddening.  You don't run a business by insulting your star employees.  I have to wonder though if this is the Boras camp talking to apply public pressure to the Sox. 

Like Elk said, the market looks about to break and people are thinking the Cubs will make the first move.  Will be interesting to see.

I wonder if Bloom Henry and Co realize how much their credibility is on the line with signing Bogaerts.  If they fail which is more likely than not then they lose all credibility in Boston.  They would have to literally break the bank and sign someone better than Bogey or Fenway Park will become a mosoleum next summer.

Bloomer is between a rock and a hard place.  The crazy money owners are bidding Bogey up to $300mil.  He cant/won't afford to pay both Bogey and Devers who will be in the $300m club.  He screwed up by lowballing Bogey last spring, when he could have locked him up before all this winter meetings bidding war started..

He probably needs Bogey to help sign Devers next year.  A fine mess  by guys who are not baseball people.

As i just posted regarding Verlander, I wonder what this does to the market for all players?  Will this further knock the Red Sox out of the market they think they make but don't understand.

As for Bogey, they're going to pay big money to someone to play SS.  Why not the guy you already know?  Like we've all be saying, the whole credibility of the organization is on the line right now, so they raise ticket prices and take the fans for granted.

Related to this, does anyone think they'll add another starter?  I'm sure Bloom is thinking Chris "3 game per year" Sale and James "Big DL" Paxton are the top of the rotation.  He's got Bello set, either Whitlock or Houck and Pivetta.  I'm thinking he rolls in someone mediocre or from the minors and we go with a straight 5 and assume none of them will ever be on the DL, which seems to be the pitching strategy of the club in general. 

With Philly out of the Bogey sweepstakes,  there’s still reported 7-8 teams in line.  A rumor out tonight that the Diamondbacks are now the favorites for Bogey.  I guess we could all be missing the point that Bloomer signed his Bogey insurance last year in Story.  He can find a 2B on the cheap and consider it done.  Save the money for a pitcher OR a new yacht for himself.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 05, 2022, 05:46:09 PM
With Philly out of the Bogey sweepstakes,  there’s still reported 7-8 teams in line.  A rumor out tonight that the Diamondbacks are now the favorites for Bogey.  I guess we could all be missing the point that Bloomer signed his Bogey insurance last year in Story.  He can find a 2B on the cheap and consider it done.  Save the money for a pitcher OR a new yacht for himself.

Here is Bloom and Henry.'s problem in a nutshell they said that they were going to make a big effort to sign Bogey.  If they punt an do not sign him or someone considered a big name high quality Free Agent they are screwed.  Unless they sign a big bat they have no protection for Devers at the plate.since JD and Xander would be gone.

Without a universally applauded big name FA signing the Red Sox will have lost all credibility and fan interest will plummet

This Bloom chatter blah blah from a PC yesterday from the MLB site.

"
A report in The Boston Globe on Sunday, citing a source, said that the Red Sox had yet to make a “competitive” offer to Bogaerts.

“It’s not for me to decide or announce what’s competitive or what isn’t. We’ve certainly made offers to him, and we’ve certainly been engaged and we’re going to stay engaged,” Bloom said.
"

He won't even suggest anything made as being competitive yet. On the other hand, I'd much rather have the bulk of all that process behind the curtains instead of that Cashman act with Judge last April.

BOH had used a prop to the press that was slightly amusing if not a little diggy and loaded up for backfire. Said they received a few bottles of wine by accident and decided that the brand was better suited for the press. The brand name is "Pessimest". Yeah, the press are going to have a lot of fun with that one if getting Bogey back doesn't pan out.

Bora$ is dialing up the wick. He said that the team is just so-so without 'X.   sigh     No, we're actually so-so with Bogey, and not getting any better with anytime soon. Pitchers and targeted RH bats keep falling off the board. 

Are we sure Bloom even went to the Winter Meetings?  Do the other teams even talk to him?  Is he as much of a joke to the rest of the MLB as he is to the Sox fan base? 

DD in Philly is making Bloom look silly.  Boras also made it clear that he will not give Boston the final chance to match any offer.
Bloom is hell bent on signing only 2nd tier players and Swiss Army Knives.

Yanks matched the Giants' offer and went 9 years, $360M. I would never wish harm on Judge. He seems like an upstanding dude to me. I'm glad he peter-slapped Cashman out of $150M for his bring the fight to the public transgressions before the season started. Such a class-less move, and it backfired big time.

That said, I really wish he had gone to the Giants, but only if he listed the Yankees' fans' booing late in their playoff run late in a loss this year as one of many reasons.

It's now time for the Bora$ slapping Bloomer around show.

There is life on the Sox phones!   Kenley Jansen was signed for 2/$32mil .  Not sure how he pitches as he was not the high leverage guy for Dodgers in the playoffs.

Sox also talking to Matt Carpenter for DH.  Certainly a low budget move.

I was shocked to see this.  For that money he has to be at the back end, but let's see what he does.  I think it's a good deal for a guy of his caliber, and also know that as soon as he blows a single game that people will want to run him out of town.  35 years old, two years.  Let's see!

A good post from Will Middlebrooks:

QuoteLove the shape of the Red Sox bullpen. Joely Rodriguez, Chris Martin, and now a CLOSER in Kenley Jansen. 79 saves in the last two seasons, and he’s a winner. You know who’s really good friends with Kenley? Xander Bogaerts. Let’s go! Get it done. He’s our captain.

The cynic in me says Will Middlebrooks is really angling for a NESN job.

Could very well be that the Judge signing is the catalyst for field players big names to start moving.  Sox heard that Giants and Yanks each losing Judge would move to the SS market, Correa or Bogey.  Probably puts the heat on Bloomer, and he has stepped up the talks with Bogey this morning.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 07, 2022, 11:09:35 AM
The cynic in me says Will Middlebrooks is really angling for a NESN job.

Middlebrooks in the booth and Jenny Dell on the field?

Middlebrooks has tweeted a lot for a while.  I think he likes being a baseball gadfly and the occasional appearance on MLB.

Lots of online buzz that they've been meeting this morning and in the last few minutes that a deal is "close".  We'll see!

Digging at least the effort to have a good closer. Jansen is past his prime and will struggle for a month or so on end. Closed for the Braves last season and had some loud outings in the playoffs FWIR.

Just looked up - 41 saves and 7 blown last season. Beats 7 blown and 2 saved. LOL   Also posted a 3.38 ERA. Not quite as dominant as before, but it's something. Only a two year deal. Maybe he'll be a good influence on German to get that arm of his matured and ready to roll before it's all done.

Worse comes to worse, we pull off another Heathcliff Slocumb and trade him to the Mariners for a 15 year catcher and #2 pitcher. :)

The key will be using him correctly.  Maybe Houck gets some of the 3 run saves and you save him for the closer ones.  Oh wait, I forgot Cora is our manager and he'll throw 50 innings by the ASB!  But hey if he takes innings that would otherwise go to Barnes it's a plus, right?

We got reamed in the rule-5. Thad Ward will be playing for the Nationals next season unless his arm falls off. Politi was a surprise. He'll be on the Orioles unless offered back.

The shrewd move of the day - Noah Song by Mr Dombrowski - again. Makes me wonder what the status of the Military release was that they didn't protect him. He'll have to stick in the Majors. $50k risk at the worst, right? They gotta offer him back to the Sox if he's not on the team. That's gonna be something to watch. I wonder if anyone had any whispers of a workout on him or something.

edit: So 5 years when we marvel at what we gave away in 2022, just think of the roster spots that Jolie Rodriquez and Hoy Park took up. Park being high K, low average left handed hitting 2B that got unclaimed on Waivers and we still traded something for him.  The cost of that mess is a combination of Thad Ward, Noah Song and Inmer Lobo. It's a similar concept to "Lost Economic Opportunity" when we start clogging up 40-man roster spots. Yes, the Song situation is different, of course. Still - grrrr 

Holy crap! We got Yoshida. 5 years, 90M. Heavy on contact type hitter. Didn't even post until today.

I give Bloom props on this one.  It is a sound gamble. Now let's get a SS/2baseman

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 07, 2022, 05:53:58 PM
Holy crap! We got Yoshida. 5 years, 90M. Heavy on contact type hitter. Didn't even post until today.

Yoshida I think projects as a DH only.  He reportedly is not a good INF or OF prospect in MLB.

At 5'8 176, he could be our next Pedroia in the leadoff slot.

Drats! I had read yesterday that he was supposed to be "solid" OF or something.

I was just looking at his stats. I hope he's a better base runner than 4SB two seasons ago and none last year. Career OPS over 950 based mostly on contact and OBP. That's downright impressive these days. Still hit 21 HRs in 110-120 games the past two seasons. If he can get around the base paths OK, we might be golden.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 07, 2022, 06:20:47 PM
Drats! I had read yesterday that he was supposed to be "solid" OF or something.

I was just looking at his stats. I hope he's a better base runner than 4SB two seasons ago and none last year. Career OPS over 950 based mostly on contact and OBP. That's downright impressive these days. Still hit 21 HRs in 110-120 games the past two seasons. If he can get around the base paths OK, we might be golden.

From Passan

Yoshida, 29, is an on-base machine who led Nippon Professional Baseball in OPS the last two seasons. His bat-to-ball skills are absolutely world-class: just 41 strikeouts in 508 plate appearances, with 80 walks. Only Luis Arraez had a lower strikeout rate in MLB last season.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 04, 2022, 06:07:16 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on December 04, 2022, 05:48:35 PM
According to Peter Abraham the Red Sox have not yet made a competitive offer to Bogaerts.  This certainly supports the thesis that the FO is scamming their fans about their sincerity to re-sign Bogey

The SS market looks like it is about to break.  A story today that Swanson will sign (with someone) on Dec 9.  Not sure what to make of this Bogey thing, maybe Boras bluster.  But someone is either lying, or another somone will look like a fool.

Boras fooled the Brewers last off season by plying a decent contract for the miserable JBJ, two years of 12 million from what I remember and an option for the third.  But the Brewers knew they got fleeced and dumped him back on Bloomer boy and two disgusting prospects who shit the bed last summer.  We are still paying him too next season from what I have also heard.  Boras knows that Bogaerts is not drawing the interest that most of you out there believe so he is putting phantom teams and rumors  that other teams are involved.  It's his SOP.  Still I'd rather have Bogey than no one at SS, though I think Dansby Swanson would cost less and you wouldn't have Boras to deal with.  But the SS has to be a RH hitter because the OF we signed from Japan, a good hitter there, is a lefty and we already have lefties at first, third, right and now left.  The catcher, DH, second baseman had also better be righties or we'll face every lefty in Christendom next season.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 07, 2022, 02:36:09 PM
Digging at least the effort to have a good closer. Jansen is past his prime and will struggle for a month or so on end. Closed for the Braves last season and had some loud outings in the playoffs FWIR.

Just looked up - 41 saves and 7 blown last season. Beats 7 blown and 2 saved. LOL   Also posted a 3.38 ERA. Not quite as dominant as before, but it's something. Only a two year deal. Maybe he'll be a good influence on German to get that arm of his matured and ready to roll before it's all done.

Worse comes to worse, we pull off another Heathcliff Slocumb and trade him to the Mariners for a 15 year catcher and #2 pitcher. :)

Jansen led the league in saves this past season with 41 and we only signed him for two years.  I think this might work out for us because he and Martin are better than what we put out there from the bullpen this past season.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 07, 2022, 06:23:57 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 07, 2022, 06:20:47 PM
Drats! I had read yesterday that he was supposed to be "solid" OF or something.

I was just looking at his stats. I hope he's a better base runner than 4SB two seasons ago and none last year. Career OPS over 950 based mostly on contact and OBP. That's downright impressive these days. Still hit 21 HRs in 110-120 games the past two seasons. If he can get around the base paths OK, we might be golden.

From Passan

Yoshida, 29, is an on-base machine who led Nippon Professional Baseball in OPS the last two seasons. His bat-to-ball skills are absolutely world-class: just 41 strikeouts in 508 plate appearances, with 80 walks. Only Luis Arraez had a lower strikeout rate in MLB last season.

The guy projects as a good hitter for average with some power.  It is a good signing in my estimation and so is Jansen, but we need that shortstop whoever he migh be....and a decent starter as well.

Losing Bogey with no replacement in sight a blow
  No matter how you look at it.  This team is not that good even with Yoshida and Jansen.  It is at best a 500 ball club

Yep, Preller rolled the dice.  Bogey is a Padre 11/$280m.  I don’t know the mechanics of the Sox FO. How would you save $300 m?  What would the fans say?  But I’m guessing Bloom thinks they have their SS in Story.  At the end of the day, Prune Face gives Correa what he wants.  Alas another Boras client.

I think.they never really made any effort to keep Bogey and they were bsing the fans all along.  Unless they get a big bat and Yoshida is not enough Devers has no protection in the lineup and teams pitch around him all year long. Even with Yoshida the outfield and lineup have little pop.  Furthermore Devers days in Boston are numbered.  If the Sox struggle next year as I think they will Devers will be gone at the trade deadline for prospects.

Saw a Globe article, but couldn’t read it behind the paywall but the story said Bloom was shocked by this deal.  Sure it’s another indictment of him, but he did seem truly shocked.  Now he has more work to do.   The Sox need a SS and I’m actually okay if they put Kike at 2B and Story at SS if they get a stud CF.  THey’ll need it as Yoshida has no arm from what I can tell.  He’s got a range factor like Renfroe without the arm.  I figure he’d have to learn and play LF and Verdugo goes to RF which is a weak start to an OF. 

This was actually under the AAV people were predicting. I was prepping myself for news some team jumping in with 10 years, $320 or some ridiculous thing well over market. To lose Bogey for market value or just below is inexcusable. Those other moves mean nothing now. It's a wash, and it was their plan all along. They were not fibbing when they said they are where they wanted to be. This is it. Goal accomplished.

Can't insult your players and expect them to stay unless you're the Yankees?

thumb_d thumb_d thumb_d

Quote from: longgame on December 08, 2022, 07:21:41 AM
Saw a Globe article, but couldn’t read it behind the paywall but the story said Bloom was shocked by this deal.  Sure it’s another indictment of him, but he did seem truly shocked.  Now he has more work to do.   The Sox need a SS and I’m actually okay if they put Kike at 2B and Story at SS if they get a stud CF.  THey’ll need it as Yoshida has no arm from what I can tell.  He’s got a range factor like Renfroe without the arm.  I figure he’d have to learn and play LF and Verdugo goes to RF which is a weak start to an OF.

If Bloom is truly shocked then it shows how totally out of his depth he is.  His first duty is to understand the market which he clearly doesn't.

I never would of given Xman an 11 year deal. 28 million a year for that long is foolish. If he had wanted a 5 year deal for 28 million a year I could see it. Or even 30 million a year. If he was still 25 things might be looked at differently.

Quote from: Schloicka on December 08, 2022, 07:55:48 AM
I never would of given Xman an 11 year deal. 28 million a year for that long is foolish. If he had wanted a 5 year deal for 28 million a year I could see it. Or even 30 million a year. If he was still 25 things might be looked at differently.

Serious question: Do these contracts typically include a cola adjustment.  Given inflation his salary could diminish by half at 11 years in real terms if inflation remains at the 7 % level

Pretty sure they're straight dollars, no COLA.  It's a contract worth X in today's dollars.

Sure 11 years makes no sense, but 30 year olds have been getting those contracts for a few years now.  The Sox had to make a choice - field a good team and keep the fan base, or just flounder around in the market.  Don't tell me you want a farm system if your going to let the best products of that system go every time.  This should have been easy and should have been done a year ago. Did Bloom think the market would go down?  Did Bloom think Bogey's asking price would go down?  Did he think that after several years of 10 year contracts to older players that this trend would come to a sudden stop? 

Bloom was having a good day but right now this team has a worse lineup and rotation than last year but maybe the bullpen is better.  They'll need to be since I don't expect Sale or Paxton to be able to go more than 5 innings per game before they hit the DL again. 

Quote from: longgame on December 08, 2022, 08:32:50 AM
Pretty sure they're straight dollars, no COLA.  It's a contract worth X in today's dollars.

Sure 11 years makes no sense, but 30 year olds have been getting those contracts for a few years now.  The Sox had to make a choice - field a good team and keep the fan base, or just flounder around in the market.  Don't tell me you want a farm system if your going to let the best products of that system go every time.  This should have been easy and should have been done a year ago. Did Bloom think the market would go down?  Did Bloom think Bogey's asking price would go down?  Did he think that after several years of 10 year contracts to older players that this trend would come to a sudden stop? 

Bloom was having a good day but right now this team has a worse lineup and rotation than last year but maybe the bullpen is better.  They'll need to be since I don't expect Sale or Paxton to be able to go more than 5 innings per game before they hit the DL again.

My thoughts exactly

Saw this in an article, but can't verify how accurate it is, but....  Boston made Bogaerts a 6-year offer for approximately $162 million.  No wonder he left, I think anyone could have told them this wouldn't fly. 

He now has the 5th best SS contract in MLB, which sounds about right.

Do the Sox go after Swanson who is a very good fielder?  Would help a lot but they still need to address the OF.

That's official from their Press Department, Alex Spieire. That is the quick spin. Everyone had predicted him to land close to the  $200M mark and something like 7-8 years, and that was before the market jumped this past couple of weeks.

If Trea Turner got $300M, there is no way in hell the Red Sox were even close to signing Bogey for $162M, or whatever the hell it was. This whole story got wind in the sails because someone leaked to a local writer that talks were heavy. Yeah, right. I'm suggesting right here and now that this "source" that leaked to the local Boston writer(Abrams?) was feeding him an absolute line of crap so that whenever a big deal did happen they could make it look like a massive over-pay. In other words, "Gee whiz, 'Sox fans, we were about to sign him for $xx when some big bad bullies made him an outrageous offer that they could not refuse. But we tried!!!"

Spare me. You tell me that if Dombrowski could have had Bogey for $225M instead of Turner for $300M that he would not have taken Bogey? Cut me a frigging break. There is NO WAY that Bogey was half the price of Turner. We'll see what Swanson gets from the Cubs or whoever is left spending. He was predicted to get less than Bogey by everyone.

I am so sick and tired of this BS spin department of the Red Sox.

Today I saw a fan propose a trade possibility, which is right up Bloom’s alley.  Similar to the Hosmer deal.  Verdugo, AAA P Chris Murphy, and Yorke to Brewers for SS Willy Adames and OF Yelich, which would be a salary dump from a bad contract.  Maybe they would think Verdugo is the next Hunter Renfroe.

Somehow it seems Chaim thought he had this locked up when he was way off the mark.  Hopefully they thought through a Plan B. 

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 08, 2022, 12:08:52 PM
Today I saw a fan propose a trade possibility, which is right up Bloom’s alley.  Similar to the Hosmer deal.  Verdugo, AAA P Chris Murphy, and Yorke to Brewers for SS Willy Adames and OF Yelich, which would be a salary dump from a bad contract.  Maybe they would think Verdugo is the next Hunter Renfroe.

No way.  Yelich has been failing offensively the past few years and we got fleeced by the Brewers last season, or should Isay Bloom got fleeced.  The Fenway Sports Group led by the Prune is involved with soccer, hockey and the Red Sox and is supposed to be drowning money right now.  Besides Bloomer Girl not be able to do his job, the fact that he was described as "shocked" when he heard the news of Bogey on the plane home, it just tells me he and Prune Face and whole shitface Boston Organization still does know the market.  Their market and the baseball marker is not the same and you would think by now they would have learning something, but Henry is a twit and Bloomer Girl is a worthless piece of baseball official.

At some point, somebody who doesn't work for the Red Sox/Globe/NESN is going to get a whole bunch of intel together and expose details for what they were/are and not the spin we're getting. There is no way I'm buying that they had confidence that the signing was going to happen.

Ayuh! This is the same organization that was so blinded.....  oh, never mind.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 08, 2022, 03:55:18 PM
At some point, somebody who doesn't work for the Red Sox/Globe/NESN is going to get a whole bunch of intel together and expose details for what they were/are and not the spin we're getting. There is no way I'm buying that they had confidence that the signing was going to happen.

Ayuh! This is the same organization that was so blinded.....  oh, never mind.

We know one consistent factor from the start is John Henry.  This probably goes back to why Theo left after dismantling his winning teams.  What don't the Sox get about consistency both on the field and with the fans? 

It's almost a paradox. We chase after stat darlings who are not ours, but low-ball our proven successes. I wonder if it's personal with Henry? Does he take the attitude that a player walking away never liked him to begin with? Does his loyalty from others requirement include only those who are willing to show it by taking far less than open market?

Others have suggested the shiny new toy theory. Got to be some of that in there, too. 

Clearly Henry's personality quirks plays a major factor. I also think FSG is hard pressed for capital right now. Events with Liverpool and FSG's search for either a buyer or major new investor for that team must be having an effect on the Red Sox spending plans.  These things are not isolated events.

More wow for this off-season. Brandon Nimmo 8 years, $162M to stay put in NY. Solid all around player, sure, but such a big contract for guy with two seasons above 92 games played. Dang!!!! Isn't that close to last Springs extension offer to our remaining good player? Times are ah changing.

In my original post on this thread  I predicted Bloom would go 0 for 3 on signing Bogey, extending Devers and making the Sox a contender. So far my predictions are holding up.

In the aftermath of the Bogaerts debacle, it came out the Bloom knew that the Sox had virtually no chance of keeping Bogey and the FOs statements on the subject were deliberately  misleading.  We also know that ownership was heavily involved in the Bogey negotiations and Boras has a direct line to Henry that he will use at any time.  It is therefore pretty clear that unless Devers accepts short money and years he is gone as well.
As we look at the roster headinginnto 23 it is clear that this is barely a 500 team very unlikely to contend.  Looks like there will be plenty of empty seats at the Fens next year.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 11, 2022, 09:25:20 AM
In my original post on this thread  I predicted Bloom would go 0 for 3 on signing Bogey, extending Devers and making the Sox a contender. So far my predictions are holding up.

In the aftermath of the Bogaerts debacle, it came out the Bloom knew that the Sox had virtually no chance of keeping Bogey and the FOs statements on the subject were deliberately  misleading.  We also know that ownership was heavily involved in the Bogey negotiations and Boras has a direct line to Henry that he will use at any time.  It is therefore pretty clear that unless Devers accepts short money and years he is gone as well.
As we look at the roster headinginnto 23 it is clear that this is barely a 500 team very unlikely to contend.  Looks like there will be plenty of empty seats at the Fens next year.

In my opinion we will not have the courage or guts to sign Raffy to a big extension and will most likely will either trade him next season for "prospects"  or see what we can get from him for one last big hurrah.  Simply put Devers is as good as gone.  As for the empty seats, Henry is counting on the pink hats and casual fans to pack the park next season, and, BTW, this misleading deliberately by the Red Sox over the Bogaerts contretemps has Henry's filthy fingers all over it.  He and Bloom are two peas in the pod but when convenient he will sack the worthless Bloom and claim that "he gave Bloom free reign and he didn't do the job."  Anything to clean his hands over this malfeasance and no one should believe that crud for a moment.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 11, 2022, 12:50:21 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on December 11, 2022, 09:25:20 AM
In my original post on this thread  I predicted Bloom would go 0 for 3 on signing Bogey, extending Devers and making the Sox a contender. So far my predictions are holding up.

In the aftermath of the Bogaerts debacle, it came out the Bloom knew that the Sox had virtually no chance of keeping Bogey and the FOs statements on the subject were deliberately  misleading.  We also know that ownership was heavily involved in the Bogey negotiations and Boras has a direct line to Henry that he will use at any time.  It is therefore pretty clear that unless Devers accepts short money and years he is gone as well.
As we look at the roster headinginnto 23 it is clear that this is barely a 500 team very unlikely to contend.  Looks like there will be plenty of empty seats at the Fens next year.

In my opinion we will not have the courage or guts to sign Raffy to a big extension and will most likely will either trade him next season for "prospects"  or see what we can get from him for one last big hurrah.  Simply put Devers is as good as gone.  As for the empty seats, Henry is counting on the pink hats and casual fans to pack the park next season, and, BTW, this misleading deliberately by the Red Sox over the Bogaerts contretemps has Henry filthy fingers all over it.  He and Bloom are two peas in the pod but when convenient he will sack the worthless Bloom and claim that "he gave Bloom free reign and he didn't do the job."  Anything to clean his hands over this malfeasance and no one should believe that crud for a moment.

Fred, I've related to you and others in the past that I am a forgiver of the Henry/Werner group. I've explained my reasons as being centered around getting 4 WS and that he was infinitely better than what we had since Tom Yawkey died.

Those days are over. This slow dismantling of the home grown team we've longed for is chock full of fan deception and bitter dealings with star players. This has become just as bad, if not worse than the Fisk fiasco, which was all part of a pure finance move that was the dismantling of that great core. (Evans, Lynn, Rice, Hobson, Burleson, Cooper, Fisk)

The worst part is that Henry knew full well what it meant for the Red Sox Nation to reconcile with Lynn, Fisk, Boggs, etc. It was a signal that said "we understand, and times have changed." Nope. They just trumped the trust fund years big time. They made at least a big of a mess out of our team than they ever did 25-40 years ago. 30 years from now, some other owner(the sooner, the better) is going to step in and pull off the same reconciliation act. Let's hope they don't turn on us like the Henry/Werner FSG did.

You make a really interesting point Mongo. Considering how hard they worked to bring former players, even those who went on to play elsewhere, back in to the Red Sox "family", you'd think they would be thinking about why it was important to do that and how to avoid doing the same thing.  This team is currently a new team, one with no identity.  They have one A player in Devers.  The rest are just average ballplayers, at best.  We have a couple of injury retreads, one with a terrible history of getting injured while injured or newly recovered, at the top of the rotation.  You've got what is likely the worst OF in MLB no matter how you count it, defensively or offensively.  The infield is unsettled.  Looks like we're all in on Casas as the every day 1B.  Story hasn't been particularly good even when he's on the field.  They're talking about Enmauel Valdez as the SS (I kid you not).  No catcher. 

ESPN had an article rating winners and losers at the Winters Meeting.  I'll give you one guess as to who the most popular losing club was. 

The only good news is that there is plenty of time before Spring Training.  The bad news is that that's two months for Bloom to screw this team up even more. 

Purportedly Bloom was brought in to beef up the farm.  The question is the farm any better than it was when Bloom was hired. I read one report that it is actually worse.. Are the players and prospects Bloom acquired really that good.  So far I think not.

The Sox have some decisions coming.  They had 39 players on the 40 man (I think).  With the Jansen and Yoshoda signings, at least one will have to get DFAd.  There is a glut of marginal pitchers o the 40 man,  Hoy Park might be the odd man out of a couple SPs are added.

One way to clear out the bottleneck is a trade.  I don’t think they have the depth of prospects to go after Pittsburgh’s Reynolds.  A blurb today indicates they have been talking to Marlins about 1B/RF Cooper.  I only see that as a possibility because Bloom likes players who spent time with NYY, as Cooper did in 2017. .  A SS/2B infusion looks more and more like Andrus/Segura/Iglesias.  I am thinking like a Bloom reclamation project and hoping it’s more helpful to wins than that.  Otherwise, it’s looking like a blow the thing up year.

I am convinced that Henry has serious financial issues affecting FSG as a whole which is the reason for his looking to either sell Liverpool or seek new investors.  These issues are the reason he is unwilling to spend for long term contracts and why he brought in Bloom in the first place.  One can not separate the international longterm economic outlook from Henry's recent actions with the Red Sox.

It also could be that FSG is making these moves to free capital to make an offer for the Washington NFL team which is likely to be available soon.

Whatever his motivation he will not be making a realistic offer to Devers imho.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 12, 2022, 07:04:16 AM

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 11, 2022, 12:50:21 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on December 11, 2022, 09:25:20 AM
In my original post on this thread  I predicted Bloom would go 0 for 3 on signing Bogey, extending Devers and making the Sox a contender. So far my predictions are holding up.

In the aftermath of the Bogaerts debacle, it came out the Bloom knew that the Sox had virtually no chance of keeping Bogey and the FOs statements on the subject were deliberately  misleading.  We also know that ownership was heavily involved in the Bogey negotiations and Boras has a direct line to Henry that he will use at any time.  It is therefore pretty clear that unless Devers accepts short money and years he is gone as well.
As we look at the roster headinginnto 23 it is clear that this is barely a 500 team very unlikely to contend.  Looks like there will be plenty of empty seats at the Fens next year.

In my opinion we will not have the courage or guts to sign Raffy to a big extension and will most likely will either trade him next season for "prospects"  or see what we can get from him for one last big hurrah.  Simply put Devers is as good as gone.  As for the empty seats, Henry is counting on the pink hats and casual fans to pack the park next season, and, BTW, this misleading deliberately by the Red Sox over the Bogaerts contretemps has Henry filthy fingers all over it.  He and Bloom are two peas in the pod but when convenient he will sack the worthless Bloom and claim that "he gave Bloom free reign and he didn't do the job."  Anything to clean his hands over this malfeasance and no one should believe that crud for a moment.

Fred, I've related to you and others in the past that I am a forgiver of the Henry/Werner group. I've explained my reasons as being centered around getting 4 WS and that he was infinitely better than what we had since Tom Yawkey died.

Those days are over. This slow dismantling of the home grown team we've longed for is chock full of fan deception and bitter dealings with star players. This has become just as bad, if not worse than the Fisk fiasco, which was all part of a pure finance move that was the dismantling of that great core. (Evans, Lynn, Rice, Hobson, Burleson, Cooper, Fisk)

The worst part is that Henry knew full well what it meant for the Red Sox Nation to reconcile with Lynn, Fisk, Boggs, etc. It was a signal that said "we understand, and times have changed." Nope. They just trumped the trust fund years big time. They made at least a big of a mess out of our team than they ever did 25-40 years ago. 30 years from now, some other owner(the sooner, the better) is going to step in and pull off the same reconciliation act. Let's hope they don't turn on us like the Henry/Werner FSG did.

Sorry to see your faith in the overall running of the Red Sox take such a hit, but don't fret about it.  We all make mistakes and I am proof positive of that.  I admire that you kept the faith as long as you did, but as for me, I see myself sometimes as a cynical bastard and having coached baseball for the better part of 35 years may have fastened me with pretty hard steel imposed around my body dealing with phonies like some parents, boosters, sponsors, etc, etc.  Different ownership, same malfeasance.  I wonder if it is the water in Boston.  Yes, those four WS Titles still bring with it a glow that is hard to shed, but then again, we never saw a Red Sox team like our 2018 one, perhaps the greatest in RedSox history.  That Henry would then begin a year later to dismantle it boggles the imagination and divorces it from common sense.  Keep the faith my friend; perhaps I can join you not in the too distant future to relish the rebirth of our franchise.

Quote from: longgame on December 12, 2022, 08:50:58 AM
You make a really interesting point Mongo. Considering how hard they worked to bring former players, even those who went on to play elsewhere, back in to the Red Sox "family", you'd think they would be thinking about why it was important to do that and how to avoid doing the same thing.  This team is currently a new team, one with no identity.  They have one A player in Devers.  The rest are just average ballplayers, at best.  We have a couple of injury retreads, one with a terrible history of getting injured while injured or newly recovered, at the top of the rotation.  You've got what is likely the worst OF in MLB no matter how you count it, defensively or offensively.  The infield is unsettled.  Looks like we're all in on Casas as the every day 1B.  Story hasn't been particularly good even when he's on the field.  They're talking about Enmauel Valdez as the SS (I kid you not).  No catcher. 

ESPN had an article rating winners and losers at the Winters Meeting.  I'll give you one guess as to who the most popular losing club was. 

The only good news is that there is plenty of time before Spring Training.  The bad news is that that's two months for Bloom to screw this team up even more.

Maybe I ought to stop posting on this board Ted because some of you are getting as cynical as I am in my worst moments, and I don't want to be responsible for that.  That said should we not al be a little more that slightly perturbed by what Henry has done to our beloved team?  The only alternative is to plow on or junk our team for some other one.  The first alternative is to slog ahead; the latter is a completely impossibility..  We just have to keep the faith and hope sanity of some sort pervades  those in charge.

Heard that Bloom admittedyesterday that they knew months ago that they were out of the running on Bogey.  That duplitous so and so.

In his interview with the Athletic Bloom said they were focusing on trades to fill their lineup.  Last week’s plan was to offer short term contracts with enormous AAV to remaining FA. He found out that the market really wants long contracts approaching 10 years,

The problem Chaim faces in finding a trade partner, he has probably lost all respect as an MLB executive, and would have to overtrade to get the value he wants.  That’s after losing two franchise players, soon to be three.  The Sox FO have put themselves on a pickle.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 13, 2022, 06:58:23 AM
In his interview with the Athletic Bloom said they were focusing on trades to fill their lineup.  Last week’s plan was to offer short term contracts with enormous AAV to remaining FA. He found out that the market really wants long contracts approaching 10 years,

The problem Chaim faces in finding a trade partner, he has probably lost all respect as an MLB executive, and would have to overtrade to get the value he wants.  That’s after losing two franchise players, soon to be three.  The Sox FO have put themselves on a pickle.

What you are saying is absolutely  true.  Now no one believes a word he says.  One Boston sports personality says when Bloom speaks it is just so much "blah blah blah"

Baghdad Bloom needs to talk less and act more.  It's getting tiresome to watch as they totally don't understand the market. The market has trended towards big long term deals and they keep offering short deals with more AAV.  It doesn't move the needle when you can get a contract that takes you through retirement. 

I have no idea which journeymen he'll trade for and what he'll trade with.  He claims they want to build home grown talent and they let them walk when they come up for renewal, and meanwhile who in that farm system is tradeable?  Casas and Bello are off limits from what I understand (as they'll be key parts of this team) so what are you going to get for Dalbec and Downs and Duran?

Now every time someone signs someone (3 catchers including Vaz moved yesterday, good thing we don't need a catcher) I think "we could have used that guy".  So I guess we're passing on upgrading the catcher spot, we've downgraded the SS spot.  We're taking a flier on Casas as every day 1B which I'd be okay with if he had a MLB lineup behind him.  We have likely the worst OF in MLB.  And Chris Sale is at the top of our rotation, all 150 pounds of him. 

The media is ripping the Sox left and right.  They should change the name to the Boston Titanics.

I cancelled my subscription to the Athletic. It was due up for auto-renew next week, anyhow. The everyday Red Sox coverage had become another PR-spin style of writing. National writers were OK.

It was never a first look news source and never intended to be. Last week, though, they had the articles posted on losing Bogey up before I looked just after 7:00AM. They were READY!

A day later and the why we lost 3 players in the main portion of the Rule-5. Same PR style spin. Even included some short-cited reasoning that made zero sense to anyone who could think.

A thought hit me after reading the Rule-5 article. Could losing a big name prospect to Rule-5 have had some PR intent? If it didn't, they sure are using it to claim just how good the farm system is these days. Yeah, OK.

Quote from: longgame on December 13, 2022, 07:50:58 AM
Baghdad Bloom needs to talk less and act more.  It's getting tiresome to watch as they totally don't understand the market. The market has trended towards big long term deals and they keep offering short deals with more AAV.  It doesn't move the needle when you can get a contract that takes you through retirement. 

I have no idea which journeymen he'll trade for and what he'll trade with.  He claims they want to build home grown talent and they let them walk when they come up for renewal, and meanwhile who in that farm system is tradeable?  Casas and Bello are off limits from what I understand (as they'll be key parts of this team) so what are you going to get for Dalbec and Downs and Duran?

Now every time someone signs someone (3 catchers including Vaz moved yesterday, good thing we don't need a catcher) I think "we could have used that guy".  So I guess we're passing on upgrading the catcher spot, we've downgraded the SS spot.  We're taking a flier on Casas as every day 1B which I'd be okay with if he had a MLB lineup behind him.  We have likely the worst OF in MLB.  And Chris Sale is at the top of our rotation, all 150 pounds of him. 

The media is ripping the Sox left and right.  They should change the name to the Boston Titanics.

IMO one of the reasons for the trend towards long-term contracts is inflation
It makes financial sense to lock some one long term and mitagate the longterm risks of injury through insurance.

That's exactly it, the out years aren't worth as much as they seem to.  Remember Manny signing for $20MM a year, then the Sox spread out the end of his contract forever.  If he was hurt insurance would have covered them too.  Not as much risk as the owners want to make out, plus I always laugh at how fans act like it's their money too. 

In the meantime, Zunino signed with the Guardians, where he'll be an old man compared to the rest of that team.  I guess this means we're going with McGuire/Wong for next year so mark another fully downgraded position.  Hopefully Bloom doesn't sign Sanchez.  Active payroll right now for next year is estimated at $149MM.  Story is the highest paid player on the team.  Sale has a higher AAV but for some reason only about $17.5M counts this year.  Didn't look into why.  That puts them at or below the likely team average.  It's hard to fathom what is happening, or rather not happening.

The doors are still open at FSG.  To make room for Jansen on the 40 man, they DFAd Hoy Park - we hardly knew ye.  Seems like he earned about a $mil (?) I don’t think they’ve made it official for Yoshida.  They can move Ort or maybe Frank German.

The Sox did say they were going to add 7-9 players, now with $40mil left to spend.  You can see their pitiful budget. Correa went to Giants, 13 /$350m.  He was not Sox worthy.  Nor was Ross Stripling at $12.5m AAV. You’d think Bloom would go for Yarbrough, who went tonight for 1@$3m.  I’m not sure who they’re targeting now. They did imply today that Houck is now a SP.  Rich Hill to complete the staff I guess, as crazy as that sounds.

The Correa signing really busted the Sox.  They could play off that they thought Bogey was paid too much, but now it's clear that if you want a top SS you're going to pay a lot for a lot of years.  The Sox are sticking their heads in the sand and offering contracts which would have been attractive 10 or 15 years ago.  It's mind boggling.  There's no way they open up the wallet for Swanson so it's Story at SS and then Arroyo I guess at 2B?  I still say put Kike there and get at least one legit outfielder out there. 

Something is really bothering me about the Sox' approach.  They say they want to build the farm system.  So isn't the best way to do that is stock up on free agents to give those guys time to develop?  Instead they get mid-level talent and then have to DFA prospects.  Bloom says they'll be active in trades.  Well that's going to be more young players and you still have to pay the guys you trade for - or do you just get them for two years until they hit free agency?  Or keep signing the Kikes and Matt Barnes of the world?  Nothing makes sense and the Sox are floundering even worse with apparently no valid short or long term plan. 

Quote from: longgame on December 14, 2022, 08:19:16 AM
The Correa signing really busted the Sox.  They could play off that they thought Bogey was paid too much, but now it's clear that if you want a top SS you're going to pay a lot for a lot of years.  The Sox are sticking their heads in the sand and offering contracts which would have been attractive 10 or 15 years ago.  It's mind boggling.  There's no way they open up the wallet for Swanson so it's Story at SS and then Arroyo I guess at 2B?  I still say put Kike there and get at least one legit outfielder out there. 

Something is really bothering me about the Sox' approach.  They say they want to build the farm system.  So isn't the best way to do that is stock up on free agents to give those guys time to develop?  Instead they get mid-level talent and then have to DFA prospects.  Bloom says they'll be active in trades.  Well that's going to be more young players and you still have to pay the guys you trade for - or do you just get them for two years until they hit free agency?  Or keep signing the Kikes and Matt Barnes of the world?  Nothing makes sense and the Sox are floundering even worse with apparently no valid short or long term plan.

I read somewhere that the Red Sox farm system is worse now than it was last year.  Blame Henry on the budget but Bloom is failing on his own terms.  I think a solid case can be made that Bloom is no judge of talent.

BTW Correa's reported contract means that Devers should expect a minimum 10 year deal in excess of 280 to 290 m.  If Sox are unwilling to sign him for that type deal, one can expect that Boston will never be competive again.with this ownership or with Bloom.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 14, 2022, 08:47:34 AM

Quote from: longgame on December 14, 2022, 08:19:16 AM
The Correa signing really busted the Sox.  They could play off that they thought Bogey was paid too much, but now it's clear that if you want a top SS you're going to pay a lot for a lot of years.  The Sox are sticking their heads in the sand and offering contracts which would have been attractive 10 or 15 years ago.  It's mind boggling.  There's no way they open up the wallet for Swanson so it's Story at SS and then Arroyo I guess at 2B?  I still say put Kike there and get at least one legit outfielder out there. 

Something is really bothering me about the Sox' approach.  They say they want to build the farm system.  So isn't the best way to do that is stock up on free agents to give those guys time to develop?  Instead they get mid-level talent and then have to DFA prospects.  Bloom says they'll be active in trades.  Well that's going to be more young players and you still have to pay the guys you trade for - or do you just get them for two years until they hit free agency?  Or keep signing the Kikes and Matt Barnes of the world?  Nothing makes sense and the Sox are floundering even worse with apparently no valid short or long term plan.

I read somewhere that the Red Sox farm system is worse now than it was last year.  Blame Henry on the budget but Bloom is failing on his own terms.  I think a solid case can be made that Bloom is no judge of talent.

BTW Correa's reported contract means that Devers should expect a minimum 10 year deal in excess of 280 to 290 m.  If Sox are unwilling to sign him for that type deal, one can expect that Boston will never be competive again with this ownership or with Bloom.

And they better decide soon.  Either offer him something like that now, or trade him.  That's the number and they can't roll the clock back 20 years.  At some point the team has to at least act like they're interested in fielding a competitive team, don't they?

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 13, 2022, 05:09:06 PM
The doors are still open at FSG.  To make room for Jansen on the 40 man, they DFAd Hoy Park - we hardly knew ye.  Seems like he earned about a $mil (?) I don’t think they’ve made it official for Yoshida.  They can move Ort or maybe Frank German.

The Sox did say they were going to add 7-9 players, now with $40mil left to spend.  You can see their pitiful budget. Correa went to Giants, 13 /$350m.  He was not Sox worthy.  Nor was Ross Stripling at $12.5m AAV. You’d think Bloom would go for Yarbrough, who went tonight for 1@$3m.  I’m not sure who they’re targeting now. They did imply today that Houck is now a SP.  Rich Hill to complete the staff I guess, as crazy as that sounds.

Sea Dog, Bloom has been outed as a small market bean counter with a small market brain and either with the blessing of owner Prune Face or maybe even on his own is driving the team into another miserable summer next season.  That a big market team like ours could descend into a pathetic mediocrity is an indictment of the malfeasance of those who are lying to their fans and pretending they  are something that they most certainly are not.  That pitiful budget of $40 million for mine players?  What kind of real talent can we expect with that miserable allocation of resources.  Like you and others I'm disgusted beyond belief.

I'm baffled as it gets with Bloom. Henry I don't condone, but I understand. We can vote with our money, but at the end of the day, it's our dime.

Now on Bloom, WTS is going on in that guys' cavernous skull? He trades a young, legitimate prospect for someone who nobody else wanted and then turn around and DFA the guy a month later??? That move cost us Thad Ward on top of it? It's exasperating.

And who in the hell sends a guy like Thad Ward to the Arizona Fall League to get him ready for the big leagues, but doesn't protect him after he's wowed the scouts? An idiot that thought far more of PR points than his baseball team.

Red Sox farm system worse? That was hard to do, but they did it. Their upper level talent was not developed for big league success. Sure, the intent was there. It just didn't happen. Big fails. Most of the touted promoted position players bombed at their respective next levels. Season-long disasters.

This is an organization that "stays the course" as long as it can when they are under the microscope. Imagine the stubborn idiots without that microscope keeping them from going too far into the ditch? In August, IIRC, we listed out all the acquisitions and names the Bloom got and their massive fail rate. A month later, Bloom himself throws the system under the bus by saying it's all their fault for not giving these kids the tools needed to succeed. I'm not making this up. I'm paraphrasing from memory here, but the bloom-speak was simple - 'We got the right players and pieces. The blame, then, falls on us as an organization for not doing what we needed to do to ensure their success. We have to do better job of coaching on all levels.' 

This is the worst that it's been for a long time. That's saying something.

So a guy like Bellinger (who signed a one year deal for $12MM) couldn't fill a hole in the outfield?  I just don't get how they think a poor fielding guy who never played MLB is going to be a big upgrade with the two other poor defenders out there. 

Nothing makes sense with this club.  Like Mongo said they let the young prospects go.  They trade them for depth pieces at best.  They don't want to pay anyone other than Trevor Story and Chris Sale, also mediocre (do we even know if Sale has anything left at this point since he hasn't really pitched more than a couple of games in years?). 

Continue to be supremely frustrated and based on what I read elsewhere, so is every other Red Sox fan (except the pink hats who think you should be happy no matter what slop they put out there.)

The BS department keeps on ah keepin' on. Devers is the new #1 priority, meaning to get him signed to his extension. Have we just danced this same waltz recently?

And the Red Sox MLB page states that Jansen is overjoyed because he is coming to boston, and Yoshida chose the Red Sox because they are the best organization out of the 30 teams.

Hokey Dokey!

While the Yankees loaded up with Rodon last night, there were reports that the Sox were heavily interested in Swanson - so I guess we won’t be getting Swanson either.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 16, 2022, 07:09:54 AM
The BS department keeps on ah keepin' on. Devers is the new #1 priority, meaning to get him signed to his extension. Have we just danced this same waltz recently?

And the Red Sox MLB page states that Jansen is overjoyed because he is coming to boston, and Yoshida chose the Red Sox because they are the best organization out of the 30 teams.

Hokey Dokey!

Henry has a bridge in Brooklyn he wants us to buy.

If the Sox were congressmen, you’d say they were making sausage. The product sure doesn’t look like your father’s baseball.  On Friday the Sox DFA’d Hosmer (the Boston press: “they didn’t want him”)  So the net effect was losing Jason Groome to the Padres.

But with a40 man slot now available, Sox traded with KC with minor league pitcher Wallace (who we got for a good OF Kevin Pillar) for a guy named Mills, who will pitch in the Boson bullpen. A 6-4 submariner coming off an 4.49 era 1.50 WHIP (the Boston press: “they like his arm slot”)  Bloom, the smartest man in the room, rinse and repeat.

The fundamental question is this any better than last years team
  Quick answer is nope.  The secondary question is whether Bloom has laid the foundation for this team to be consistently competitive long term.  Answer is nope.  The reality is the farm system does not look any better than it did under Dombrowski.  It has yet to produce any position player who can play solid ball at the ml level.

Looking at what we lost......
That kid Wallace was a BP guy who had 12.6K per 9IP. 3.81 ERA in Portland doesn't tell the whole story. He had a rough start after a rough 2021. Was off to a roaring pre-Pandemic start. Had a bad start with Portland, but finished it off with very nice August and September ERA's below 2.00. Big letdown last two games. 1 inning each, 4 walks, 5 SB allowed. Got rattled, but did not allow any runs.

Looking at what we got back......
Mills came up through the Mariner's system. Last two years of AAA was 3.14 and 2.14. He had stints in the bigs both years and that did not go well. 9.15 and 4.60 ERA's respectively. His K's per 9 plummeted upon being called up. We've seen a lot of that. I supposed there is some hope for him with the improved ERA, but he had a major jump in WHIP after going to the Royals mid-season.

We all know Hosmer - we think. So, Mr Value himself DFA'd Hosmer? I'm sensing there is something we do not know about Mr Hosmer. Big time defender with Warning Track power generated by a swing that didn't match any of his numbers. Decent enough offensively save HR's on top of way above average defense and nobody wants him? It does not make sense. Something does not add up.

We did get a pair of Minor Leaguers from San Diego along with that Jay Groome deal. A 23 year MI named Ferguson with massive BB numbers to go along with his .214 BA which included a .161 A+ BA when the Sox got him. The greatest organization in Baseball (the Sox) did manage to fix him once we got him and his BA jumped to .181 with us. Drinks of Chaim!  The other guy, Corey Rosier, has some decent numbers, though. At least until he got into the Red Sox farm system. His BA dropped 100 points from the .263 he was hitting. Both players were drafted last season.

Both players also have had some very impressive SB numbers. David Hamilton might have some competition soon in the productive speed department. I have no idea how well they play defense.

Anyone noticing some trends? LOL 

Quote from: elktonnick on December 17, 2022, 08:24:41 AM
The fundamental question is this any better than last years team
  Quick answer is nope.  The secondary question is whether Bloom has laid the foundation for this team to be consistently competitive long term.  Answer is nope.  The reality is the farm system does not look any better than it did under Dombrowski.  It has yet to produce any position player who can play solid ball at the ml level.

I agree. I don't even think last years' team improved at the deadline despite some writers suggesting we marginally improved. This off-season is a disaster.

Atlanta pulled a Bloom and traded for Hoy Park after being DFA'd. We get a player to be severely depressed named later.

Looking at last year, I think we can see a pattern.  Don’t spend on a big talent, wait to see who nobody else signed a couple of weeks in to ST, then over pay them.  They get even more points if currently injured.

Quote from: longgame on December 17, 2022, 07:13:13 PM
Looking at last year, I think we can see a pattern.  Don’t spend on a big talent, wait to see who nobody else signed a couple of weeks in to ST, then over pay them.  They get even more points if currently injured.

Said player gets a $2mil bonus if he is a switch hitter, can play catcher or SS and has three options left.

The Sox come to life signing Justin Turner. We either need a 3B or maybe just a regular DH.  His deal tops the one LA gave JDM.

Justin Turner's deal with the Boston Red Sox is for two years and just shy of $22 million, and it includes an opt-out after the first year.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 18, 2022, 05:17:57 PM
The Sox come to life signing Justin Turner. We either need a 3B or maybe just a regular DH.  His deal tops the one LA gave JDM.

Justin Turner's deal with the Boston Red Sox is for two years and just shy of $22 million, and it includes an opt-out after the first year.

I guess good signing.  JD without the pop, but can play the field.  He’s played some 2B too.  Had to laugh in looking at his similarity scores on BB Ref, he compares with Pablo Sandoval and Kevin Millar.

Not a bad signing at all. An extra year probably needed to seal the deal. I would have thought 1 year, $10M or so. He's a hitter who's not afraid of the big moments. Or at least was. Might buy us a few days off here and there at 3B.

The big question - someone's gotta go. Who next on the DFA block?

(and related to recent moves, has Downs DFA situation been finalized? (trade, accepted assignment, granted Free Agency, etc) I think we'd have known by now if he was claimed by anyone.)

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 18, 2022, 07:04:09 PM
Not a bad signing at all. An extra year probably needed to seal the deal. I would have thought 1 year, $10M or so. He's a hitter who's not afraid of the big moments. Or at least was. Might buy us a few days off here and there at 3B.

The big question - someone's gotta go. Who next on the DFA block?

(and related to recent moves, has Downs DFA situation been finalized? (trade, accepted assignment, granted Free Agency, etc) I think we'd have known by now if he was claimed by anyone.)

A class act, decent power, hits in the clutch and good  team player.  We needed at least one more RH bat with some sock.  This is a good signing considering what we had done before.  Good team player too.  He could be a help to us the next two years.

Ken Rosenthal has a tremendous article in today's  Atheletic which summarizes perfectly  the current situation with the Red Sox.  The comments posted after the article are also well worth reading. 

To summarize both the tenor of the article and the comments:  It's Henry's fault and Bloom has made the situation worse.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 19, 2022, 08:12:33 AM
Ken Rosenthal has a tremendous article in today's  Atheletic which summarizes perfectly  the current situation with the Red Sox.  The comments posted after the article are also well worth reading. 

To summarize both the tenor of the article and the comments:  It's Henry's fault and Bloom has made the situation worse.

Saw some excerpts and he's right on.  Also saw that apparently the Sox offered JDM a minor league contract.  What is wrong with these guys?  Don't they realize they send messages to fans and players alike with moves like that?

I was able to access The Athletic article.  It's devastating.  Lines like this:

QuoteIf the Sox were a fast-burning candle under Bloom’s predecessor, Dave Dombrowski, they are now a slow-burning candle.

https://theathletic.com/4014758/2022/12/19/red-sox-owners-free-agency-blame/ (https://theathletic.com/4014758/2022/12/19/red-sox-owners-free-agency-blame/)

Espn reports that Devers and Red Sox are "galaxies" apart.  Surprise Surprise Surprise

Heading into the next season, unbeknownced to Sox MGT, Boston is beind boat-raced by the other teams in the northeast, NYY, Mets, and Philly.  They seem to have no pride in ownership. 
,

They offered JDM a minor league deal???

Yeah, I saw that "galaxies" comment on MLB.com as well.

I'm glad I was able to get to that article in the Athletic. Sometimes I think Rosenthal is full of himself a bit too much, and maybe milks a point to weakly make another stick out. This is not one of those times. He did miss some things, but at some point it becomes a book.

Then it hit me. It's Stephen King's fault. He's writing his smack-daddy of all smack-daddy Red Sox horror films. In it, he somehow scared Sox Management to death.   

On Eovaldi, according to MLB.com, speculation around the camp fire is that Nasty Nate will end up re-signing with the 'Sox. No clue who those people are, of course, they said "“pretty good confidence on the part of a lot of people in baseball” that Eovaldi will ultimately re-sign with the Red Sox."  So who knows. This is part of the machine that had Bogey all but re-signed with the 'Sox only to find out the Sox didn't ever try.

And in non-Sox news, disagreement with the Giants over the physical made Correa and Bora$ sign up with the Mets. The physicak cost 1 year. The Giants' deal was 13 years, $350, but the Mets' deal is 12-years, $315M.    AAV drops from $26.9M to $26.2M.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 21, 2022, 07:30:03 AM
According to Eovaldi, speculation around the camp fire is that Nasty Nate will end up re-signing with the 'Sox. No clue who those people are, of course, they said "“pretty good confidence on the part of a lot of people in baseball” that Eovaldi will ultimately re-sign with the Red Sox."  So who knows. This is part of the machine that had Bogey all but re-signed with the 'Sox only to find out the Sox didn't ever try.

And in non-Sox news, disagreement with the Giants over the physical made Correa and Bora$ sign up with the Mets. The physicak cost 1 year. The Giants' deal was 13 years, $350, but the Mets' deal is 12-years, $315M.    AAV drops from $26.9M to $26.2M.

Eovaldi will go where the money is.  He has no loyalty he owes the Red Sox, especially after the way they dissed Bogaerts and how Prune Face has dismantled what was once the best team in baseball.  If Nathan does sign with us I'll believe it when I see it and don't think I will.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on December 21, 2022, 11:43:17 AM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 21, 2022, 07:30:03 AM
According to Eovaldi, speculation around the camp fire is that Nasty Nate will end up re-signing with the 'Sox. No clue who those people are, of course, they said "“pretty good confidence on the part of a lot of people in baseball” that Eovaldi will ultimately re-sign with the Red Sox."  So who knows. This is part of the machine that had Bogey all but re-signed with the 'Sox only to find out the Sox didn't ever try.

And in non-Sox news, disagreement with the Giants over the physical made Correa and Bora$ sign up with the Mets. The physicak cost 1 year. The Giants' deal was 13 years, $350, but the Mets' deal is 12-years, $315M.    AAV drops from $26.9M to $26.2M.

Eovaldi will go where the money is.  He has no loyalty he owes the Red Sox, especially after the way they dissed Bogaerts and how Prune Face has dismantled what was once the best team in baseball.  If Nathan does sign with us I'll believe it when I see it and don't think I will.

I totally screwed up what I wrote. It was supposed to be, "On Eovaldi, according to MLB.com, ..."  .

I hear ya, though. Here's to hoping he likes Boston?  :) 

Seems the Sox are not amongst the teams in on Eovaldi. At least according to someone on MLB.com who was quoting a member of the Boston press.

My wife did end up getting me one Red Sox t-shirt for Christmas, but it was understandable.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0012/0543/6505/products/image_81d78d66-42b9-439b-85c0-ac04688150f3.jpg)

Hopefully that shirt becomes a collector’s item soon!

Sox are interested in dealing Sale although not actively trying to move them.  Not sure if it was Chaim or another one in the clown car that said they were dealing from a position of strength with respect to starters.  I’m guessing because they could trade anyone of them and it wouldn’t matter to the outcome of this team next year. 

That is yet another example of the utter nonsense that eminates from the Red Sox Front Office on a regular basis.  From.what I am hearing no one in Boston believes anything that Kennedy or Bloom has to say.

Quote from: elktonnick on December 27, 2022, 07:13:56 PM
That is yet another example of the utter nonsense that eminates from the Red Sox Front Office on a regular basis.  From.what I am hearing no one in Boston believes anything that Kennedy or Bloom has to say.

I think it was Maserotti, who wrote last week. The Red Sox front office aren’t stupid, but they think you the fans are.”

Quote from: elktonnick on December 27, 2022, 07:13:56 PM
That is yet another example of the utter nonsense that eminates from the Red Sox Front Office on a regular basis.  From.what I am hearing no one in Boston believes anything that Kennedy or Bloom has to say.

They both have lose their credibility and are two of the most incompetent baboons in baseball and I now believe that Prune Face must put the team up for sale.  He along with Bloomer Butt have turned our club into a laughing stock.  A pox on both of them.

Quote from: longgame on December 27, 2022, 06:44:13 PM
Sox are interested in dealing Sale although not actively trying to move them.  Not sure if it was Chaim or another one in the clown car that said they were dealing from a position of strength with respect to starters.  I’m guessing because they could trade anyone of them and it wouldn’t matter to the outcome of this team next year.

Now that's funny.

Yeah, Bloomer hisbadself stated that the Red Sox starting depth is a position of strength. It's the rest of the rotation he should be worried about.

Looking at the math, the Sox are not going to fork out $17 mil for a SP.  They are obviously not going over the LTT this year.  With about $20 mil left, they are shooting for a $10mil pitcher, with $7-8 for a utility INF like Andrus/Iglesias. 

By going over the tax line last year in the Pham deal, they suffer the consequences this year.  The QO gift from losing Bogey and Eovaldi would have been 2nd and 3rd round supplemental draft picks.  Because of the Pham deal, those are now a 4th and 5th round picks, plus loss of $1 mil in international bonuses.  Now that does not sound like big finances, but for a team being run like the Tigers and Royals this year, those are big losses.  Bloomer's game is discarding front line players for prospects as well as gains through the draft.  This year his model has blown up in his face.  What were some crafty Billy Beane type moves two years ago, have turned into what you would expect from a stock broker selling low and forced to buy high and keep a smile on his face.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 28, 2022, 09:08:18 AM
Looking at the math, the Sox are not going to fork out $17 mil for a SP.  They are obviously not going over the LTT this year.  With about $20 mil left, they are shooting for a $10mil pitcher, with $7-8 for a utility INF like Andrus/Iglesias. 

By going over the tax line last year in the Pham deal, they suffer the consequences this year.  The QO gift from losing Bogey and Eovaldi would have been 2nd and 3rd round supplemental draft picks.  Because of the Pham deal, those are now a 4th and 5th round picks, plus loss of $1 mil in international bonuses.  Now that does not sound like big finances, but for a team being run like the Tigers and Royals this year, those are big losses.  Bloomer's game is discarding front line players for prospects as well as gains through the draft.  This year his model has blown up in his face.  What were some crafty Billy Beane type moves two years ago, have turned into what you would expect from a stock broker selling low and forced to buy high and keep a smile on his face.

I was just pointing out in another thread the work that the Brewers' GM has done this off-season.

I very much suspect Bloom screwed something up that we don't know about during last years' trade deadline fiasco. Full ownership support to go over the luxury tax threshold with that set of moves is not cutting it for me. I'm willing to bet that Bloomer got fleeced by a team that swooped up his targeted prize during the last few hours of the trade deadline and left him/them/us holding the bill on some serious salary. I have recently suspected it was JDM and the Dodgers, but mostly I thought it could have been Eovaldi and his delay getting back to the mound coupled with somewhat lower than hoped for velocity. Maybe Wacha, too, but I don't recall his ride back from the IL. They tried too hard to sell this as a planned upgrade set of moves after the deadline had passed, which included a full day of dealing done AFTER Blooms' little speech advising us to wait to see the whole puzzle before rushing to judgement. That puzzle never got assembled, and ownership seized to only silver lining they could grasp stating that they were in full support of Blooms' moves, including going over the threshold.

Or maybe I'm bitter. 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 28, 2022, 09:50:05 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 28, 2022, 09:08:18 AM
Looking at the math, the Sox are not going to fork out $17 mil for a SP.  They are obviously not going over the LTT this year.  With about $20 mil left, they are shooting for a $10mil pitcher, with $7-8 for a utility INF like Andrus/Iglesias. 

By going over the tax line last year in the Pham deal, they suffer the consequences this year.  The QO gift from losing Bogey and Eovaldi would have been 2nd and 3rd round supplemental draft picks.  Because of the Pham deal, those are now a 4th and 5th round picks, plus loss of $1 mil in international bonuses.  Now that does not sound like big finances, but for a team being run like the Tigers and Royals this year, those are big losses.  Bloomer's game is discarding front line players for prospects as well as gains through the draft.  This year his model has blown up in his face.  What were some crafty Billy Beane type moves two years ago, have turned into what you would expect from a stock broker selling low and forced to buy high and keep a smile on his face.

I was just pointing out in another thread the work that the Brewers' GM has done this off-season.

I very much suspect Bloom screwed something up that we don't know about during last years' trade deadline fiasco. Full ownership support to go over the luxury tax threshold with that set of moves is not cutting it for me. I'm willing to bet that Bloomer got fleeced by a team that swooped up his targeted prize during the last few hours of the trade deadline and left him/them/us holding the bill on some serious salary. I have recently suspected it was JDM and the Dodgers, but mostly I thought it could have been Eovaldi and his delay getting back to the mound coupled with somewhat lower than hoped for velocity. Maybe Wacha, too, but I don't recall his ride back from the IL. They tried too hard to sell this as a planned upgrade set of moves after the deadline had passed, which included a full day of dealing done AFTER Blooms' little speech advising us to wait to see the whole puzzle before rushing to judgement. That puzzle never got assembled, and ownership seized to only silver lining they could grasp stating that they were in full support of Blooms' moves, including going over the threshold.

Or maybe I'm bitter.

Mongo there are those within the front office thar are apparently critical of Blloom for his dilly dallying  decision making.  I suspect you are correct in your suspicions.  Bloom's front office critics obviously have some basis for their criticisms.  After all a classics degree from Yale isn't the best preparation for making sound quick decisions.  After all no one in that field is waiting for Plato or Aristoles newest book to be published.

One report says Corey Kluber and Red Sox are in agreement on a 1-year deal at $10m. with a club option for 2024. They had been talking to him on and off for several weeks.

Kluber, 36, is a two-time Cy Young Award winner whose strikeout-to-walk ratio was the second best in the American League last year as he punched out 139 and issued 21 free passes in 164 innings for the Tampa Bay Rays. In his prime a great fast ball was his out pitch.  Lately he only throws the FB 45% of the time and relies more on his cutter.

Against the ALE he does have Pivetta problemsâ€"  Facing the Yankees, Orioles, and Blue Jays last season, Kluber had a 5.03 ERA with 43 strikeouts, 14 walks, and 4 HR allowed in 59 innings.

I guess it's an okay move.  Bloom likes his misfit toys, that's for sure.  Pretty grizzled rotation of Sale, Kluber and Paxton but a lot of upside, just don't know how high the chance is of that upside showing itself. 

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on December 28, 2022, 09:08:18 AM
Looking at the math, the Sox are not going to fork out $17 mil for a SP.  They are obviously not going over the LTT this year.  With about $20 mil left, they are shooting for a $10mil pitcher, with $7-8 for a utility INF like Andrus/Iglesias. 

By going over the tax line last year in the Pham deal, they suffer the consequences this year.  The QO gift from losing Bogey and Eovaldi would have been 2nd and 3rd round supplemental draft picks.  Because of the Pham deal, those are now a 4th and 5th round picks, plus loss of $1 mil in international bonuses.  Now that does not sound like big finances, but for a team being run like the Tigers and Royals this year, those are big losses.  Bloomer's game is discarding front line players for prospects as well as gains through the draft.  This year his model has blown up in his face.  What were some crafty Billy Beane type moves two years ago, have turned into what you would expect from a stock broker selling low and forced to buy high and keep a smile on his face.

The guy in charge of putting our team together is a total misfit for running a baseball team.  First of all he is a horse dung judge of talent and, secondly, he is always being constantly outbid for players even of a second value.  To me Chaim S.B. Bloom has been a total and complete failure on a scale bordering on criminal for what he has done to our team.  I'll let all my friends out there figure out what S.B. stands for.

Quote from: longgame on December 28, 2022, 01:20:48 PM
I guess it's an okay move.  Bloom likes his misfit toys, that's for sure.  Pretty grizzled rotation of Sale, Kluber and Paxton but a lot of upside, just don't know how high the chance is of that upside showing itself.

My take is that signing Kluber was a better move for us than resigning Hill.  Rich was pretty shitty this past season, usually getting nailed for four or five runs almost every outing.  And he 43.  Kluber is no spring chicken either but is five years younger and I believe he does b ring more to the table than hill.  Hill does bring napkins and a tablecloth; Kluber might bring a pitcher of water or lemonade.  Kluber by a shade, but we still suck and SB Bloom is still the total failure in my book.

Fred I agree.  However my reaction to Kuber signing is that Bloom is doing the bare minimum to give the appearance that the team can be relevant.

If this team can win more games than last year will only be a result of a diminished number of games against the ALE. .They still will finish last.

4a, 4b, 4c, 4d, 5a, 5b, 5c, 6a, 6b, 9a, 9b, 9c, 9d. That's our depth chart. Most teams stack 'em like 1-2-3-4-5 and so on. Not us. We got two aces and a #2 all of whom done lost it years ago.

Anyone else seeing Houck as the odd man out again? I'd be a little more sympathetic had he not been one of the catalysts for two of our worst slumps last season.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on December 28, 2022, 05:52:01 PM
4a, 4b, 4c, 4d, 5a, 5b, 5c, 6a, 6b, 9a, 9b, 9c, 9d. That's our depth chart. Most teams stack 'em like 1-2-3-4-5 and so on. Not us. We got two aces and a #2 all of whom done lost it years ago.

Anyone else seeing Houck as the odd man out again? I'd be a little more sympathetic had he not been one of the catalysts for two of our worst slumps last season.

I’m guessing Sale, Kluber, Paxton Pivetta and Bello as starters assuming they are all healthy which is probably 50/50.  I have no idea if Sale or Paxton will be able to start the season.

Devers and Sox avoid arbitration for the final year of control and agree to a $17.5M salary for 2023. The 'Sox maintain that they are still trying to sign Devers. To me, it points to anything but an imminent agreement.

Meanwhile, no official signing of Turner and Kluber. Holiday season down-time? Slow review of medical records? No room on the 40-man Roster without trades or DFA'ing someone? It's still quite a mess.

Very few trades out there. Mostly for people we don't have. Strong OF bat for strong BP guy, or stud catcher for all-star catcher and decent(not great) pitching prospects. Another one involved stud OF'er for good OF bat and a top stud catching prospect. We may not have been at the table near the end of any of these deals.   

Things are very quiet at Fenway.  Of course they were busy with their hockey team playing at their baseball stadium so who cares, right?

I was watching MLB last night and they were torching the Red Sox.  Verducci said Devers is gone by July.  Peavy can't believe what a mess they've become.  They listed all the players they've let go - see also Mongo's list - and you've got a pretty decent team among them.  They said as we have, that they made a couple of decent veteran bullpen moves (in an era when 25 year olds throwing 103 dominate) and there is possible, but somewhat unlikely upside with Sale and Paxton, but there doesn't appear to be any sort of plan, strategy, direction happening.  They mentioned that baseball, especially in the northeast, was Red Sox and Yankees and then everyone else.  Now they're clearly the 5th place team and are outshone in the northeast by both NY teams and the Phillies - all who shelled out some big contracts.

Yep Devers and his agents are heading out the door.  The new economics of baseball put him in the $30 mil club.  Is a limited 3B/future DH worth that?  He!! NO.  But those are the contracts being awarded players and their fans.

For Henry , Devers is out of the market for the new Boston makeup. Consider Bloom’s biggest deals since his arrival are Trevor Story at 6/$23.3m AAV and Yoshida at 5/$20m AAV.  They aren’t gonna be a party to the Devers bidding.  It is just 6 weeks until they toe the rubber against the Braves.  They’re still missing a SS/2B, strong RF, one pitcher, and a major league catcher.  Some talk they’re interested in Padres SS Ha Seong Kim for Nick Pivetta.  That would be weird, having seen Padres take our 2022 SS Bogaerts and giving maybe our healthiest pitcher.  Long story short, Bloomers promise to Kike’ 2023 would be a better team was a bald faced lie.  We are about to lose our top three 2022 players for BA, OPS, RBIs.

Devers may get one of the biggest contracts ever given his age, especially if he has a great season - but the Sox will dampen those chances as they'll be a poor team.  But I'd expect someone will give him 12 years. 

Color me stunned 11 years 331 million extension for Devers.  Guess Henry got the  message at Bruins game.

Quote from: elktonnick on January 04, 2023, 04:40:38 PM
Color me stunned 11 years 331 million extension for Devers.  Guess Henry got the  message at Bruins game.

Just heard that on ESPN radio.  Color me puzzled

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 04, 2023, 04:42:12 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on January 04, 2023, 04:40:38 PM
Color me stunned 11 years 331 million extension for Devers.  Guess Henry got the  message at Bruins game.

Just heard that on ESPN radio.  Color me puzzled

Facing a fan revolt, Henry had to realize that  he needed to change course. 

Twitter report that the new salary begins in 2024 and includes a $20 mil “signing bonus”  I think the math leaves the Sox about $25-mil to spend on the’23 roster and stay under the lux tax line. 
Another source I read today is $17 mil left to spend.

Dang!!!!  I am truly stunned. Absolutely stunned. No way and wow. I hope it happens.

Definitely shocked and a hell of a contract for the kid.  Now he needs some help!

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 04, 2023, 04:57:15 PM
Dang!!!!  I am truly stunned. Absolutely stunned. No way and wow. I hope it happens.

Shock , stunned, you name it, I've got it, but I just hope that contract becomes official with Devers' name on the dotted line.

There are some Twitter gems going on from our #4 Cedenne Raphaela today.  Those folks who read the tea leaves in these postings think that the deal with the Marlins is close.  Raphaela and Houck (and/or Lugo?) for a pitcher (Lopez or Rogers?) and one of their middle INF.

Cut to the chase, Bloom has been chatting with Marlins since early December.  I don’t think he would still be wasting all that time over nothing.  Sorry for the cryptic, but things appear to be developing fast this week.  Also an article today on Yahoo, although they have apparently subbed Raphaela in place of giving up Casas, which would create another hole in the lineup.


//yahoo sports story - Bowden

Here's a related story but mentions only Casas, not Raphaela.  https://www.nbcboston.com/news/sports/nbcsports/report-red-sox-working-on-potential-trades-with-marlins/2936720/ (https://www.nbcboston.com/news/sports/nbcsports/report-red-sox-working-on-potential-trades-with-marlins/2936720/)

This mentions Lopez and Rogers so certainly they'd need more than just one guy. 

I still think the singular easiest thing to do with the 2B/SS/CF situation is Iglesias. Rojas makes the same $$. Might be better than Iglesias defensively right now, but I'm only basing that on Rojas being a GG finalist last season. Other than that possibility, Iglesias just screams "fit".

Any pitcher taken from Miami would have to be scrutinized in term of pitchers' ball park being their home park. Fair statement, right? Same exact 3.87 ERA home or away. Gotta love stats.

Trading either Casas or Rafaela now is not selling high. Casas looks good while batting sub-200. Spend the $25 extra on MiLB-TV next season and watch Rafaela play CF in between Red Sox innings. It's worth it just for that. Aside from rookie oooopsies, both are ready defensively.

The fish don't need any of our pitching. The guy the Marlins should ask for as a pot sweetener is Bobby Dalbec. It's be an upgrade for them and low on $$. We might get an OK BP arm for him as it stands, but that's about it. We don't have anything MLB ready that the Marlins could use.

Personally I am not sold that Casas is major league ready.  This year will be a big test for him.  To me picking up Iggy is a no brainer.

Turner is official. They DFA'd Darwinson to make room. Not a huge surprise.

Check out the trade that Dombrowski just pulled off.
https://www.mlb.com/news/gregory-soto-trade-to-phillies (https://www.mlb.com/news/gregory-soto-trade-to-phillies)
He gets Detroit's closer (Gregory Soto), a lefty with 30 saves in 33 attempts with a 3.28 ERA for 3 role players including their almost 27 year old Catcher ranked 21st in the Phillies system.

Not saying he'd be a big time AL East closer, but still a valuable arm for 3 players that wouldn't scare anyone. One of them had a -.6 WAR.

The difference between Dombrowski and Bloom.is the latter makes trades that makes the team "efficient" whereas Dombrowski makes trades to make his teams winners.

Yep, Bloom is dabbling with some trade partners. The Sox have three outfielders who are singles-doubles hitters. Bloom passed on the heavy hitters this year. We’re still searching for INF and pitching.

There were so many holes, it will probably take another off-season and maturing on the farm to fix it all,

More Dombrowski (Trader Joe) trade news. He trades a #7 pitching prospect for a guy who split AAA/MLB last year, tossing a 5.44 ERA. He's got a 97.8 MPH fastball with lots of walks and surprisingly smallish K rates. Dombrowski always did have a huge set of 'nads when it came to trades. This is a guy who may not even make the team our of Spring Training, though I'm betting he has options left.

A couple scribes think the puzzle for the next Sox move is taking shape. Marlins picked up P Johnny Cueto.  The glut on their staff might free up RH Pablo Lopez to Sox for one or two of Casas/Raphaela/Dalbec/Duran. 

A smart exec would say ‘no dice’, but Bloom may have to solve the question marks on the Boston staff.  Or maybe Bloom is waiting for fruit to just fall out of the tree.

Understand Story will have tj surgery. Will not start Opening  Day. 

Quote from: elktonnick on January 10, 2023, 02:30:21 PM
Understand Story will have tj surgery. Will not start Opening  Day.

Wow.  This guy can’t get on the field.  Will this force another much needed move?

Just saw it’s a modified TJ procedure with 4 to 6 months recovery time, so best case he’s mid season.  With the crack Sox training staff on it, they’ll make sure he’s out for the season.

For what its worth, Bloom clearly did not do his due diligence on Story when he signed him last year.

Quote from: longgame on January 10, 2023, 03:31:41 PM

Quote from: elktonnick on January 10, 2023, 02:30:21 PM
Understand Story will have tj surgery. Will not start Opening  Day.

Wow.  This guy can’t get on the field.  Will this force another much needed move?

The report I saw was “UCL bracing on the elbow”.  One estimate is 6+ months recovery.  Which means we’ll be jerryrigging our infield up to the all-star break.  Unless Bloom provides a miracle player,  I see Kike’ moving to SS and a AAAA player doing CF.  Not a good fox for sure

Just when the hell is Story going to get his ass and body in shape and start contributing to the team.  It will now be two for two----his first two seasons of six supposed seasons for us when he is mostly on the shelf.  Pathetic!!!!!

One outcome from the Story story, is that the Bloom reluctance to conduct an aggressive off-season to improve the field players is now exposed.  He finally got the ball rolling last two weeks by adding Turner and extending Devers.  However losing all those field players last year and slow to replace  them puts him in a hole with what few impact players are still in the market.

The trade partners and free agents probably sense his desperation.  .  The cost to value ratio on what we can get now is a big puzzle. One idea I read  is to go ahead and play more prospects this year for experience.  Gambling on the health of Sale/Paxson/Story might be too risky for one season that we’re not very likely  to compete for a wild card or finish competitively with what we can put on the field.

Bloom and the "brain trust" spinning hard right now.  They've claimed they want to contend every year, even though they finished in last place and then let the team get worse.  Werner actually said  “We believe in our roster but I know that Chaim intends to improve it.”  I mean come on, we are baseball fans, we can see who is on the team.  There's no reason to think this is a winning team. 

Quote“One more thing I actually want to say, really, to our fans,” Bloom told reporters, as seen on NESN. “You know, loving your favorite team has great moments. It’s not always easy. And I know we’ve had some ups and downs, certainly in the last few years, and I know y’all are smart and you knew there would be ups and downs with where we stood and some of the things that we were going to have to go through.

“And you’ve been with us the whole way. When we’ve celebrated, you’ve celebrated with us. When we’ve hurt, you’ve hurt. And we know that. And we feel it. So I’m hoping today, when you think about what we always talked about and where we’re going and this vision of a Red Sox organization that every year is consistently contending for championships, I’m hoping that vision is a little clearer for you today, knowing that this guy is going to be right at the middle of it, what we’re going to do around him.”

“And you know it’s not always linear. It’s not always easy. We’ve taken a couple haymakers. You know what? We’re probably going to take a couple more. This is baseball. It’s not supposed to be easy. But I want to be clear: We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome. And we are going to get there and just want to thank all you for your support and hope it’s a little clearer today.”

A day after losing their SS, sources say Red Sox have contacted free-agent CF Adam Duvall, former Braves and Reds. However he only played 86 games in ‘22 with 12 homers.

“If Boston were to go this route then Duvall likely would pencil in as the everyday centerfielder -- or split time with Jarren Duran -- while Hernandez moved to shortstop. Boston then would likely have Christian Arroyo serve as the team's second baseman or it would bring in a new one while the team waited for Story to return to the field. “

Quote from: longgame on January 11, 2023, 12:54:16 PM
Bloom and the "brain trust" spinning hard right now.  They've claimed they want to contend every year, even though they finished in last place and then let the team get worse.  Werner actually said  “We believe in our roster but I know that Chaim intends to improve it.”  I mean come on, we are baseball fans, we can see who is on the team.  There's no reason to think this is a winning team. 

Quote“One more thing I actually want to say, really, to our fans,” Bloom told reporters, as seen on NESN. “You know, loving your favorite team has great moments. It’s not always easy. And I know we’ve had some ups and downs, certainly in the last few years, and I know y’all are smart and you knew there would be ups and downs with where we stood and some of the things that we were going to have to go through.

“And you’ve been with us the whole way. When we’ve celebrated, you’ve celebrated with us. When we’ve hurt, you’ve hurt. And we know that. And we feel it. So I’m hoping today, when you think about what we always talked about and where we’re going and this vision of a Red Sox organization that every year is consistently contending for championships, I’m hoping that vision is a little clearer for you today, knowing that this guy is going to be right at the middle of it, what we’re going to do around him.”

“And you know it’s not always linear. It’s not always easy. We’ve taken a couple haymakers. You know what? We’re probably going to take a couple more. This is baseball. It’s not supposed to be easy. But I want to be clear: We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome. And we are going to get there and just want to thank all you for your support and hope it’s a little clearer today.”

Werner was talking to the pink hats, pollyannas and boot lickers that will swallow anything Prune Face and this shithead Werner can throw at them.  Some of here Ted know a lot better what a bunch of losers we now have running the team.

After letting lying Sam Kennedy carry the water for the last year, Tom Werner now comes out of his burrow looks around and makes his typical nonsensical statement which absolutely no one believes.  Henry and Werner now realize that their parsimony is affecting the long term value of the franchise.  Words aren't going to work only actions.

I’m listening to WEEI Christian Fauria / Art Camp on the 5:00 show, and they’re playing Werner’s and Bloom’s statements “…. we’ve taken some haymakers but we’re going to be awesome.”  They (WEEI) are in agreement that the Bloom experiment isn’t working,  followed by “everything Chaim touches turns to garbage.” 

I think he will part ways with the Sox end of year, MGT will make him the sacrificial lamb.  Tough times ahead.

First off...

Quote from: elktonnick on January 10, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
For what its worth, Bloom clearly did not do his due diligence on Story when he signed him last year.

Indeed!

There is a different version, and even a second different version. The one we are supposed to accept is the one where we hang our heads in sorrow for Trever Story's just awful luck. And then poor Chaim. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Could have happened to anyone. Gosh darn, and gee willickers! Yeah, no. Not going there.

I take solace in a pretend world where Henry knew that this was going down and found out just an hour or so before being booed in his own ballpark. Well, no, I take that back. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Can you imagine, though? Yikes!

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 11, 2023, 02:26:57 PM
A day after losing their SS, sources say Red Sox have contacted free-agent CF Adam Duvall, former Braves and Reds. However he only played 86 games in ‘22 with 12 homers.

“If Boston were to go this route then Duvall likely would pencil in as the everyday centerfielder -- or split time with Jarren Duran -- while Hernandez moved to shortstop. Boston then would likely have Christian Arroyo serve as the team's second baseman or it would bring in a new one while the team waited for Story to return to the field. “

Wow, couldn't get much worse than Duvall.  Negative DWAR last year.  Projected to hit about .235.  Strikes out a third of the time.  So if he platooned with Duran we probably couldn't tell the difference except he'll K more.  I wonder if he chases down fly balls or just lets them roll around the outfield like Duran?

Some house cleaning by Bllom.

Signed a former Yankee OF, Greg Allen to a minor league deal.

Completed a trade with Balti. for Darwinzon in return for cash.

Official announcement of Corey Kluber.  To make room, they DFAd Connor Seabold.

Looks like Bloom has been on the phone this week.  Rumblings about that he’s been talking up a two-year deal wit OF Adam Duval.  Not a signed deal yet.  In his years at Atlanta when he played RF/LF his avg was .238 and .233. When asked to play CF, the mix was not as good, a dip to .204.  If this deal is finalized, it would seem Duval goes to CF and Kike’ would be the SS.

Last year in Atlanta Duval broke a bone in his hand and was limited to 86 games (in CF about half) batting .215 and hit 12 homers.  Not sure how this pans out. Duval gives some Renfroe like pop, but his OBP is scary.  If it looks like fitting a puzzle together on the field to get another bat in the lineup, my football-loving wife could probably devise a better plan.

OPS last four years is telling,
2019 117
2020 114
2021 99
2022 87

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 17, 2023, 01:24:34 PM
Looks like Bloom has been on the phone this week.  Rumblings about that he’s been talking up a two-year deal wit OF Adam Duval.  Not a signed deal yet.  In his years at Atlanta when he played RF/LF his avg was .238 and .233. When asked to play CF, the mix was not as good, a dip to .204.  If this deal is finalized, it would seem Duval goes to CF and Kike’ would be the SS.

Last year in Miami Duval broke a bone in his hand and was limited to 86 games (in CF about half) batting .215 and hit 12 homers.  Not sure how this pans out. Duval gives some Renfroe like pop, but his OBP is scary.  If it looks like fitting a puzzle together on the field to get another bat in the lineup, my football-loving wife could probably devise a better plan.

OPS last four years is telling,
2019 117
2020 114
2021 99
2022 87

His Strikeout rate has been over 30% the last few years too.  Need to hit a lot of homers and RBI to get past that kind of rate.  In the time Schwarber was with the Sox he struck out 23% of the time but he's a high 20's guy as a comparison.  But when you don't plan for stuff or actually try to build a team this is what you end up with. 

Quote from: longgame on January 12, 2023, 08:42:03 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 11, 2023, 02:26:57 PM
A day after losing their SS, sources say Red Sox have contacted free-agent CF Adam Duvall, former Braves and Reds. However he only played 86 games in ‘22 with 12 homers.

“If Boston were to go this route then Duvall likely would pencil in as the everyday centerfielder -- or split time with Jarren Duran -- while Hernandez moved to shortstop. Boston then would likely have Christian Arroyo serve as the team's second baseman or it would bring in a new one while the team waited for Story to return to the field. “

Wow, couldn't get much worse than Duvall.  Negative DWAR last year.  Projected to hit about .235.  Strikes out a third of the time.  So if he platooned with Duran we probably couldn't tell the difference except he'll K more.  I wonder if he chases down fly balls or just lets them roll around the outfield like Duran?

Believe it or not Ted we could do worse than Duvall and have already done it.  Why the hell did we sign Alfaro to anything?  The guy is an overstuffed fat slob who can no longer throw, his power has wilted and the Padres couldn't rid themselves of him fast enough.  My God, how much longer do we have to suffer fools like Bloom.  He is shit warmed over as a baseball man and if we don't get rid of him very soon he will start trading away our better prospects or his versatile types that he loves so much. Please Prune Face, do one thing right and very soon.  Get rid of Bloom...PPPPUUUULLLLLEEEEZZZZZEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

Two sources that there is a deal.  Not a sure game changer, but at least the Mets and Yanks were pushing to get Duvall this week.  There is room within the LTT for a SS and P,  Maybe not a Schwarber signing, but a little better than a Pham. 

Free Agent Outfielder Adam Duvall is in agreement with the Boston Red Sox. The deal is 1 year $7 million Dollars. Performance bonuses could get the deal up to $10 million dollars per source.

Well, he was a Gold Glove winner in 2021. That's gotta account for something. He led the league in RBI despite almost 2/3 that time with the Marlins and that massive K-rate. He's topped or come close to the 100 RBI mark in 4 of 7 seasons, including a pro-rated 2020. His other three seasons had injuries. Does NOT ground into a ton of DPs. He's only one injury year removed from two good seasons. 

Bloom has taken some wild fliers in the past, but this one might be on par with a Renfroe signing, minus the youth and control that was eventually wasted.

Only one problem. He doesn't fit anywhere. We've got corner OF'ers. He's appeared in CF 75 times in his big league career, but 44 of those were last year. I have no idea how he did out there. Perhaps it will work out. Fenway park aside, CF is easier for some guys.

I'd still rather have an accomplished SS than Kike.

(edit - I left the word "not" out of the the "he does not ground into a ton of DPs.)

Mongo, I think this move is right in Bloom’s frightful wheelhouse.  Have mercy!  He got the OF before it became a calamity.  Now he has time to maybe shop Verdugo for a pitcher.  And he has time to get a SS on a cheap 1 year deal (a Josh Harrison special) and put Duvall in RF since his range and arm strength really don’t fit a CF at Fenway.

You’re right, trading Renfroe was a body blow to a good year.  Bloom hasn’t done anything to gain on the AL East teams considering the O’s are bringing up some great prospects this year.  Their 2023 will be what we’re hoping for in 2024 with our farm hands.

Everywhere I look I see an Orioles' prospect listed high at their position.

It's going to be interesting to see how well or poorly Jay Groome, Dawrinzon Hernandez and Conner Seabold do with their new teams' pitching development. Especially DH, as that's what the Orioles did so well at last year - take and remake bullpen castoffs.

Apparently Sox made a deal for OF depth last night, Raimel Tapia, former Jays, posted on his Instagram.  He became really pesty playing at Fenway.

Tapia hit .265 with 30 extra-base hits including seven home runs, 52 RBIs and a .672 OPS in 128 games last season.
Much of his production came at Fenway Park, where he seemed to temporarily transform into a star. Tapia hit .300 (9-for-30) with a double, triple, two home runs, 12 RBIs and a .900 OPS in his new home ballpark last year.

This move lends credence to Kike’ to SS.  And they already signed Greg Allen earlier for OF depth.  Some are saying Duran could get a look at 2B again in the spring.

It took that idiot 4 years, but he finally assembled a complete MLB outfield including reserves and further depth. It's not going to be a celebrated OF, but it should be functional. Now please, for the love of <insert chosen deity here>, please detach your OF obsession and focus on the problem at hand. A super-sub MI ain't gonna cut it.

Is Tapia a MLB or Minor League deal?

I don't get why he was DFA'd by the Jays in November. Non-tendered, maybe, just as a money move. He had one year of arbitration left.

Low power contact hitter type. Just looking at his stats. He mostly started for 3 years for the Rockies. Had 9 and 10 triples for 2 consecutive years in the Minors and stole 20 bags in 2021. Average K-rate. Lots of LF overall, but did fill in for Springer 38 games in CF last year. His worst BA year was last year at .265 is not horrible, but this is an OPS world and he forgot how to take BB's.

I would suggest something is brewing if this was a normal, professional front office.

Your points are well made
But Bloom has assembled a team largely of broken toys. The most important members of the non playing staff will be the medical team.  Given past experience most of the starting team is likely to spend more time on the IL than the playing field.

The Sox roster  is starting to take shape. But it is a little like the trade deadline in 22 - it comes up a bit short again of finishing.  I think it’s obvious that 23 is another bridge year, especially based on the length of contracts other than Devers and Yoshida.  Dancing around the tax line is artful to accountants, but for baseball people, the team hasn’t improved very much to really compete.

Devers +10
Yoshida 5
Jansen 2
Martin 2
Kike’ 1 (2nd of 2 yr)
Turner 1 + a buyout year
Kluber 1 and option
Joely 1  and arb year
Sale 1 left??
Mills pre-arb
McGuire 3 arbs

A small bit of silver lining satisfaction for me is that I have spent a few years bitching about they kept going rock bottom with FA's instead of going the very serviceable route when such alternatives existed in the open market.

I hope we add one more solid middle infielder.

Sea Dog 23 - I'll always contend that 2021 was as much of a disaster for Bloom's rebuild agenda as the 2022 trade deadline. It was a much better pill to swallow, of course. Not being able to trade pieces because you're winning is fun.

Kudos to Bloom.  He has built a solid last place club. 

This looks like a AAA depth move at Wooster. Sox sign lefty reliever Ryan Sherriff, 1.51 WHIP,  5.52 era in 2021 with Rays.  Last year at Philly, out with shoulder, then DFAd. Also in turn, this weekend Rays signed our alums Colton Brewer and Alan Hembree. Twiddle dee, twiddle dum.

The Sox may have addressed the INF depth, trading P Josh Yaylor to KC for Raul Mondesi.  But yet another player coming off a major injury.  The trade could be cancelled if Taylor’s medical shows his chronic shoulder problems.

The Boston Red Sox acquired shortstop Adalberto Mondesi from the Kansas City Royals for left-handed reliever Josh Taylor on Tuesday, providing middle-infield depth to buttress losses this winter to free agency and injury.

The Red Sox also will be receiving a player to be named or cash considerations as part of the deal.

The 27-year-old Mondesi, whose star-level tools made him a top prospect but whose inability to stay healthy has limited him to 358 games in seven seasons, is recovering from a torn ACL in his left knee.

Can't that Bloom guy fill a hole without making another hole bigger? We've got exactly and precisely one - as on the number 1 - LH bullpen guy. I think a 2nd, Sheriff is invited, and could make the team if he does something strange like pitch decently.

If his back is fixed, they are gonna love what Taylor can do. Good for them.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 24, 2023, 03:27:43 PM
Can't that Bloom guy fill a hole without making another hole bigger? We've got exactly and precisely one - as on the number 1 - LH bullpen guy. I think a 2nd, Sheriff is invited, and could make the team if he does something strange like pitch decently.

If his back is fixed, they are gonna love what Taylor can do. Good for them.

Also today Bloom DFAd Matt Barnes.  I can’t quite translate what I just typed.  The world of a Blooming idiot.  He recently extended Barnes 2/$15 million.  I guess he needs a 40 space for another acquisition.  Maybe they want to sign some Sale insurance like Wacha. 

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 24, 2023, 06:47:45 PM

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 24, 2023, 03:27:43 PM
Can't that Bloom guy fill a hole without making another hole bigger? We've got exactly and precisely one - as on the number 1 - LH bullpen guy. I think a 2nd, Sheriff is invited, and could make the team if he does something strange like pitch decently.

If his back is fixed, they are gonna love what Taylor can do. Good for them.

Also today Bloom DFAd Matt Barnes.  I can’t quite translate what I just typed.  The world of a Blooming idiot.  He recently extended Barnes 2/$15 million.  I guess he needs a 40 space for another acquisition.  Maybe they want to sign some Sale insurance like Wacha. 

Barnes had a once-in-a-career hot spell for a few weeks, so that bought him the $15mil extension. He fooled Bloom for sure. But I can't say I'm sad to see him gone, if he stays gone.

Those of us who followed Barnes closely could never understand why the Sox front office was so enamored of the guy.  Barnes simply never learned how to pitch properly despite his great stuff and 97  mph fastball. He would drive guys who know pitching like Dennis Eckersley crazy with his pitch sequencing.  Barnes 's problem is between his ears.  If he is in the right environment with the right catcher, he would   do okay.  But a closer he isn't.

saw a graphic on Barnes’ spin rate over last four years. From a high in 2020, the results have plummeted in the last two years, as well as the velocity.  Bloom is holding onto Brasier, for the time being, he doesn’t have the spin either, but he can find the zone.  More important, Barnes is costing $7.5 and Brasier $2m.

As far as lefties, Sox have inquired about Zach Britain.  Also lefties Brandon Walter and Chris Murphy are available from AAA. Lefty Mesquita in AA, has an invite as NIL for spring camp.

He was definitely an enigma. Up and down. No more spider-tack for that kid and he was done for a year. Comes back, finishes decently and then he's DFA'd. I hope this isn't one of their cash moves where we get nothing for him.

So, looking at his dismantling the 2019 team. The return is mind-numbingly awful. I had the return all listed out, but was too depressing to look at. Betts, David Price, Benny, JBJ(twice), JDM , Moreland, Vasquez, Bogey, Workman, Hembree, Holt, Chavis, Eovaldi, Darwinzon Hernandez, Josh Taylor and Barnes.

It's not pretty. We got cash relief for Price, a 4th rotation SP, an average corner OF'er and a AAA-MLB starting pitcher depth piece. We've got 4 prospects left, one of which is hitting his weight, two are in the 40-man just to save face and a pitcher who might make it out of rookie ball this season. That is it unless you want to give him the benefit of draft picks as consolation prizes for screwing up the Bogey, Eovaldi tandem this year. I'm leaving out Franchy.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 25, 2023, 07:28:48 AM
saw a graphic on Barnes’ spin rate over last four years. From a high in 2020, the results have plummeted in the last two years, as well as the velocity.  Bloom is holding onto Brasier, for the time being, he doesn’t have the spin either, but he can find the zone.  More important, Barnes is costing $7.5 and Brasier $2m.

As far as lefties, Sox have inquired about Zach Britain.  Also lefties Brandon Walter and Chris Murphy are available from AAA. Lefty Mesquita in AA, has an invite as NIL for spring camp.

Not to add salt in the wound, but we will still have to pay Barnes his $7.5M regardless. 

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 25, 2023, 08:10:29 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 25, 2023, 07:28:48 AM
saw a graphic on Barnes’ spin rate over last four years. From a high in 2020, the results have plummeted in the last two years, as well as the velocity.  Bloom is holding onto Brasier, for the time being, he doesn’t have the spin either, but he can find the zone.  More important, Barnes is costing $7.5 and Brasier $2m.

As far as lefties, Sox have inquired about Zach Britain.  Also lefties Brandon Walter and Chris Murphy are available from AAA. Lefty Mesquita in AA, has an invite as NIL for spring camp.

Not to add salt in the wound, but we will still have to pay Barnes his $7.5M regardless.

This sole fact calls into question, once again, Blooms baseball judgment and lack of strategic thinking since Bloom is the one who extended him.

Been in the hospital a bit but at least the docs focused on getting me better. If Bloom had been my doc I would have had medical students putting a used garden hose in the wrong place.


Cut Barnes and hope oft injured guys have miracle comebacks.  The moves are too hard to believe but I’ve been on heavy pain meds. 

If Bloom.had been in charge you would have been lucky to get  a med student.

I said to my son we are hate watching if at all. I want see blood. 

Quote from: longgame on January 28, 2023, 05:30:18 PM
Been in the hospital a bit but at least the docs focused on getting me better. If Bloom had been my doc I would have had medical students putting a used garden hose in the wrong place.


Cut Barnes and hope oft injured guys have miracle comebacks.  The moves are too hard to believe but I’ve been on heavy pain meds.

Man, I hope you feel better,  out and hiking again soon!

Yeah, this has been another odd off-season.

Quick recovery, Ted. Lots of hiking still to do.

Ted, you take it easy and get well.  Hope you're starting to feel better.  We need all of us on board for support in what is shaping up to be possibly a problematic season for all Red Sox fans.

A couple of weeks ago, I had applauded the Sox looking to more serviceable free agents when trying to plug a hole instead of bargain shopping. I think that might have been after the Duvall signing. I was premature with my accolades as that Taylor-Mondesi trade shows.

There. I feel better, admitting such a blunder. 

There are some in the press who are grading the Red Sox well for that trade. Only time will tell, of course. We will be hoping for something that has never happened - injury free(ish) season after he gets back. The Royals will be hoping for Taylor to pitch like he did in 2021 and 2019. Taylor laid an egg in 2020 and back-injury wash out of 2022.

Quote from: elktonnick on January 20, 2023, 09:07:24 AM
Kudos to Bloom.  He has built a solid last place club.

Yes-but if they were in a different division.....oh wait....they AREN'T in a different division.
Never mind.

Sox do a trade with Marlins for Matt Barnes + $1mil .  Boston gets LH reliever Richard Bleier.  In 2022 3.55 era, 1.44 whip. Career 3.06 era, 1.27 whip.  Bleier’s contract is $3.0m. We save about $4m, which might be recalculated.  He holds a dubious record for three balls to the same batter.

This pitcher is a ground ball, pitch to contact guy.  Does not walk anyone, they say.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 30, 2023, 02:19:05 PM
Sox do a trade with Marlins for Matt Barnes + $1mil .  Boston gets LH reliever Richard Bleier.  In 2022 3.55 era, 1.44 whip. Career 3.06 era, 1.27 whip.  Bleier’s contract is $3.0m. We save about $4m, which might be recalculated.  He holds a dubious record for three balls to the same batter.

This pitcher is a ground ball, pitch to contact guy.  Does not walk anyone, they say.

What's that record he holds?

So the Sox are back to the needing to dump/DFA someone mode.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on January 30, 2023, 02:32:37 PM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 30, 2023, 02:19:05 PM
Sox do a trade with Marlins for Matt Barnes + $1mil .  Boston gets LH reliever Richard Bleier.  In 2022 3.55 era, 1.44 whip. Career 3.06 era, 1.27 whip.  Bleier’s contract is $3.0m. We save about $4m, which might be recalculated.  He holds a dubious record for three (balks) to the same batter.

This pitcher is a ground ball, pitch to contact guy.  Does not walk anyone, they say.

What's that record he holds?

So the Sox are back to the needing to dump/DFA someone mode.

Sorry, autocorrect changed ‘balks’ to balls.

“Richard Bleier (9/26/22 ) had a night to forget Tuesday night against the Mets in New York, making major league history as the only player since 1900 to balk three times in the same at-bat, according to Elias Sports Bureau.


Bleier, who opened the eighth inning in relief with the Marlins up 6-3, quickly retired his first two batters before allowing Jeff McNeil to reach on an infield single. With Pete Alonso at the plate, Bleier was called for a balk three times, allowing McNeil to come around to score.

"Words cannot describe what happened in that inning on my end," said Bleier, a seven-year veteran who hadn't been called for a balk in his first 303 big league appearances. "I

Wow!  That's an impressive feat. None until that night and then three to Alonso. That's one of the great things about baseball. The little inexplicable oddities.

They updated the terms on the Matt Barnes trade.  Sox will pay $5mil of his contract this year, which I think is between $7.5-8m. Bleier’s numbers for 2013 are$3.5. So the Sox lose a little cash on the deal.

They also DFAd Frank German to open up Bleier’s slot.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on January 30, 2023, 06:33:27 PM
They updated the terms on the Matt Barnes trade.  Sox will pay $5mil of his contract this year, which I think is between $7.5-8m. Bleier’s numbers for 2013 are$3.5. So the Sox lose a little cash on the deal.

They also DFAd Frank German to open up Bleier’s slot.

So basically, this was a trade that had to include a risky DFA move due to the strange 40-man Roster management & subsequent situation.

And now almost as big of a surprise - Franklin German? Does he clear? Is this a situation like with Ramon Hernandez who got DFA'd earlier this off-season and Outrighted to Worcester?

All this ain't over yet, either. There's still opening day hole(s) to fill in MI situation. We only have one guy we can stick onto the 60-day IL. I mean, give them a little time on that end.

Mongo, I can see that going into Spring the bullpen is Bloom’s strong suit.  He can shuffle and deal from the 40 man from all those AAAA pitchers he has stockpiled. But how do the Sox get to the bullpen, he should be thinking.  The starters are still a mixed bag.  From the top 6, Sale and Paxson are untested as wounded warriors.  Kluber  will have to have great command with a 88mph fastball.  Pivetta is healthy but a punching bag.  Bello has added 15 LBs of muscle but can he find the plate?  Both Whitlock and Houck were shutdown in Sept last year with major injuries.  I would sign Wacha for insurance, but what do I know?

At the end of the day, I still think this is a bridge year, and any bargaining chips will all be dealt at the deadline.

Looking at this Sox team coming up, and assuming at least one of the two gaping holes - 2B, but really SS, and C - gets filled, I'm trying to be objective with this team at least at a macro level since at a positional level there is little good news.

The bullpen is better.  I think that's unequivocal.  Last year's bullpen was awful save a couple of good performances at times by some younger guy, and there was little consistency.  This year's model has a better overall skill level and past success.  It's also old, but I'm only looking at this year.  Health will be important and these older guys will be more subject to damage from overuse.  Which brings us to.....

Starting Pitching.  I don't know what to say.  Last year's starters weren't very good.  A few well played games but that's about it.  I couldn't find stats on starting pitching innings pitched but I imagine it was low.  Sox were next to last in the AL in nearly every starting pitching stat, thank you KC for keeping them out of the bottom.  To me that means this team needs two things from this staff - consistency and quality.  The hard part is it's a challenge to say that this team will be better, but they do win some upside potential awards.  Frankly I can't see the starting pitching being worse than last year.  Not if Sale and Kluber can be at least average and with Bello being the ace of the future.  But it would take a lot to imagine this bein an impactful pitching staff.  Better than last year, but the question is how much better and is it enough to overcome the...

Position players.  This may be the worse defensive team I've seen anywhere.  Kike is a backup player.  Verdugo is very average.  Yoshida wasn't a plus defender in Japan.  Duval, well he can hit.  Casas is Casas, we'll see what we get, hoping the kid gets his swing.  Devers isn't in there for his defense.  We have second string guys for C and 2B.  Some oft-injured guys to round them out?  Plus where does the offense come from?  Teams could walk Devers every at bat and shut us out every night.  A poor team last year seems worse on paper this year without Bogey and Story whose production hasn't been replaced.

Hard to make a prediction out of this mess.  I can't see a big improvement over last year's record, maybe a handful of games.  Of course that doesn't take into account the opposition.

Truck leaves tomorrow so things are getting close.   

Quote from: longgame on February 02, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Looking at this Sox team coming up, and assuming at least one of the two gaping holes - 2B, but really SS, and C - gets filled, I'm trying to be objective with this team at least at a macro level since at a positional level there is little good news.

The bullpen is better.  I think that's unequivocal.  Last year's bullpen was awful save a couple of good performances at times by some younger guy, and there was little consistency.  This year's model has a better overall skill level and past success.  It's also old, but I'm only looking at this year.  Health will be important and these older guys will be more subject to damage from overuse.  Which brings us to.....

Starting Pitching.  I don't know what to say.  Last year's starters weren't very good.  A few well played games but that's about it.  I couldn't find stats on starting pitching innings pitched but I imagine it was low.  Sox were next to last in the AL in nearly every starting pitching stat, thank you KC for keeping them out of the bottom.  To me that means this team needs two things from this staff - consistency and quality.  The hard part is it's a challenge to say that this team will be better, but they do win some upside potential awards.  Frankly I can't see the starting pitching being worse than last year.  Not if Sale and Kluber can be at least average and with Bello being the ace of the future.  But it would take a lot to imagine this bein an impactful pitching staff.  Better than last year, but the question is how much better and is it enough to overcome the...

Position players.  This may be the worse defensive team I've seen anywhere.  Kike is a backup player.  Verdugo is very average.  Yoshida wasn't a plus defender in Japan.  Duval, well he can hit.  Casas is Casas, we'll see what we get, hoping the kid gets his swing.  Devers isn't in there for his defense.  We have second string guys for C and 2B.  Some oft-injured guys to round them out?  Plus where does the offense come from?  Teams could walk Devers every at bat and shut us out every night.  A poor team last year seems worse on paper this year without Bogey and Story whose production hasn't been replaced.

Hard to make a prediction out of this mess.  I can't see a big improvement over last year's record, maybe a handful of games.  Of course that doesn't take into account the opposition.

Truck leaves tomorrow so things are getting close.   

Thanks Ted for starting my day off with some roten news, but, then again, the truth hurts.  I just hope your miserable predictions don't impact my nine holes of golf I plan on playing at Noon, Pacific  Time.  My game goes hot and cold too many times as it is so I hope you didn't bum me out.  My take and question is just when is our team going to be a solid contender again.  Doesmn't look like it will be this season does it, especially when you have a cheap bastard of an owner and a Baseball Ops Director is about the worst one in the Major Leagues.  But wish we luck on the course anywyay.

Quote from: longgame on February 02, 2023, 11:01:18 AM
Looking at this Sox team coming up, and assuming at least one of the two gaping holes - 2B, but really SS, and C - gets filled, I'm trying to be objective with this team at least at a macro level since at a positional level there is little good news.

The bullpen is better.  I think that's unequivocal.  Last year's bullpen was awful save a couple of good performances at times by some younger guy, and there was little consistency.  This year's model has a better overall skill level and past success.  It's also old, but I'm only looking at this year.  Health will be important and these older guys will be more subject to damage from overuse.  Which brings us to.....

Starting Pitching.  I don't know what to say.  Last year's starters weren't very good.  A few well played games but that's about it.  I couldn't find stats on starting pitching innings pitched but I imagine it was low.  Sox were next to last in the AL in nearly every starting pitching stat, thank you KC for keeping them out of the bottom.  To me that means this team needs two things from this staff - consistency and quality.  The hard part is it's a challenge to say that this team will be better, but they do win some upside potential awards.  Frankly I can't see the starting pitching being worse than last year.  Not if Sale and Kluber can be at least average and with Bello being the ace of the future.  But it would take a lot to imagine this bein an impactful pitching staff.  Better than last year, but the question is how much better and is it enough to overcome the...

Position players.  This may be the worse defensive team I've seen anywhere.  Kike is a backup player.  Verdugo is very average.  Yoshida wasn't a plus defender in Japan.  Duval, well he can hit.  Casas is Casas, we'll see what we get, hoping the kid gets his swing.  Devers isn't in there for his defense.  We have second string guys for C and 2B.  Some oft-injured guys to round them out?  Plus where does the offense come from?  Teams could walk Devers every at bat and shut us out every night.  A poor team last year seems worse on paper this year without Bogey and Story whose production hasn't been replaced.

Hard to make a prediction out of this mess.  I can't see a big improvement over last year's record, maybe a handful of games.  Of course that doesn't take into account the opposition.

Truck leaves tomorrow so things are getting close.   

Devers may not be in there because of his defense but  Bloom has so screwed up the infield that Raffy is probably the best defensive infielder on the team. 

MLB changed the rules to encourage more hits through the infield so what does Bloom do he gets a SS with bad wheels.  The Sox pitching is perhaps better but that does not mean that they won't give up more hits because of Boston's questionable defense.

That's a fair view in my estimation, Longgame. Defense, offense, starting pitching and relief pitching each deserve their own threads. This team has more question marks than a bad Joker Halloween costume.

A standard issue pre-Bloom Red Sox defense is not what we're getting. That said, start penciling in the starters if we get Iglesias. He sort of fixes it all.

C - WTFE
1B - Casas
2B - Arroyo
SS - Iglesias
3B - Devers
LF - Duvall (2021 GG OF'er)
CF - Kike (became a very capable CF'er in 2021)
RF - Verdugo (was a better RF'er than LF'er)

Move Kike to SS and it makes SS/CF/LF all weaker. Yes, Duval is supposed to be a capable CF'er, but I think Kike's got the better legs for it unless I remember Duval all wrong.

Offense I am not worried about. Maybe not a top-5, but not bottom either. Plug in Turner and Yoshida to DH and various OF/IF day off iterations and you've got a solid 1-8 and a more than capable #9 hitter in Wong/McGuire. Some depth with Dalbec. Maybe even Duran if his head gets screwed on straight. Add Mondesi and Story to the mix if they contribute anything more than infections.

Pitching - ugh! The ultimate Bloom fail coming back for year #4.   

As far as pitching, I was hoping we’d entertain bringing Wacha back.  I think he went 11-2 last year. 1.13 WHIP.  But his agent is asking for a 2 yr deal @$15m.  That would surely break what’s left of Bloom’s piggy bank.

I think MGT is looking for the farm to provide some pitching up in Boston later this year, like Mata or Murphy, as one of the starters is likely to throw a gasket in his skinny body.

Re the farm:  Read John Tomase latest.  Sox farm is rated 23rd and last in the ALE.  One analyst of all farm systems doubts Boston has any pitcher currently in the lower minors who ever pitch in the major leagues. Ouch

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on February 02, 2023, 05:49:40 PM
As far as pitching, I was hoping we’d entertain bringing Wacha back.  I think he went 11-2 last year. 1.13 WHIP.  But his agent is asking for a 2 yr deal @$15m.  That would surely break what’s left of Bloom’s piggy bank.

I think MGT is looking for the farm to provide some pitching up in Boston later this year, like Mata or Murphy, as one of the starters is likely to throw a gasket in his skinny body.

I'm surprised Wacha has not gotten signed. I guess maybe he's gotta put up a couple of 20+ start and sub 4.00 ERA combined seasons before lowering both the injury and consistency reputations he has working against him?

Quote from: elktonnick on February 02, 2023, 06:16:42 PM
Re the farm:  Read John Tomase latest.  Sox farm is rated 23rd and last in the ALE.  One analyst of all farm systems doubts Boston has any pitcher currently in the lower minors who ever pitch in the major leagues. Ouch

Yeah, the top-30 is dramatically low on Salem (low-A) and below pitching. Two guys with "40" overall ratings. Imagine this farm system had Rafaela, Murphy and Walter not emerged from the rubble in 2022? We can only hope that a few more emerge this year. Who will be that surprise MLB top-100 prospect coming out of no-where? 

Does anyone disagree that Bloom's rebuild plan is built around Marcelo Meyer and has been since before he even got out of Rookie ball? That's a lot to pin on one kid.

The intertwined list of fails that Bloom has authored is going to cost us for years.

Quote from: MongoLikeSox on February 03, 2023, 08:33:24 AM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on February 02, 2023, 05:49:40 PM
As far as pitching, I was hoping we’d entertain bringing Wacha back.  I think he went 11-2 last year. 1.13 WHIP.  But his agent is asking for a 2 yr deal @$15m.  That would surely break what’s left of Bloom’s piggy bank.

I think MGT is looking for the farm to provide some pitching up in Boston later this year, like Mata or Murphy, as one of the starters is likely to throw a gasket in his skinny body.

I'm surprised Wacha has not gotten signed. I guess maybe he's gotta put up a couple of 20+ start and sub 4.00 ERA combined seasons before lowering both the injury and consistency reputations he has working against him?

Quote from: elktonnick on February 02, 2023, 06:16:42 PM
Re the farm:  Read John Tomase latest.  Sox farm is rated 23rd and last in the ALE.  One analyst of all farm systems doubts Boston has any pitcher currently in the lower minors who ever pitch in the major leagues. Ouch

Yeah, the top-30 is dramatically low on Salem (low-A) and below pitching. Two guys with "40" overall ratings. Imagine this farm system had Rafaela, Murphy and Walter not emerged from the rubble in 2022? We can only hope that a few more emerge this year. Who will be that surprise MLB top-100 prospect coming out of no-where? 

Does anyone disagree that Bloom's rebuild plan is built around Marcelo Meyer and has been since before he even got out of Rookie ball? That's a lot to pin on one kid.

The intertwined list of fails that Bloom has authored is going to cost us for years.

Of Sox top 30prospect s Bloom did not dangle one for trade bait. He seemed to protect them.   He did dfa #22 German.  I think Sox next big star is OF Bleis.  But he is two years off, and more likely three yeears.  And  yes Bloom  will  be adios before they  arrive.

The Sox dealt Frank German to the Chisox for Theo Dedlinger. He has a good fastball, but hasn’t done much above A ball, now 26 yo.  Not on the 40 man, so a depth move.

Bizarre thing he is a qualified blacksmith, and his favorite sport in high school was football.

It was another 40-man roster emergency trade. I can't believe the Sox are giving up on German. I know he pitched ugly in his debut stint, but that was a choke job. We'll see. That was our top reliever prospect.

We don't have to "protect" the new guy for another year. I think it's just one year instead of two because of the age he was drafted. I could be wrong. It's strange to look at his college numbers and see that he was drafted in the 7th round by Chicago in 2021.

Good piece on the rotation and some of the other players on the team.  Nothing earth-shattering, just an honest assessment of the pitching staff and the fact that there is a lot of upside potential or it could be a total mess. 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/02/the-volatile-red-sox-rotation.html (https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/02/the-volatile-red-sox-rotation.html)

For one, missing from the spring drama is ERod.  He is now the Tigers problem (AWOL?)  Of the top 3 at the top of Sox rotation, the older arms, I see one coming out of the spring strong and making the mgt. happy.  One will look competitive but still needing work, and one with a “sore “ shoulder or elbow requiring the 10 day IL.  That leaves Pivetta, Bello and Whitlock.  We all know what their upside is and what their limitations are.  Can those three manage 5 innings?

The additions are not named Rodon or Eovaldi or Wacha.  But less those talents, Bloom is looking for a couple surprises to make mgt even more happy.

Refsnyder wants out.  On Twitter it says he wants a trade, ‘not happy with his contract’.  He is not Kyrie Irving but he probably sees lots of bodies out in the outfield.  Tapia and there’s Raphaela making noise.  Bloom would probably trade him for an OF magician or just say <fat chance hombre>

From Mike McAuliffe, BrightsideSox

In light of Kike Hernandez's comments on needing to change the clubhouse culture, it is obvious that  as we suspected  Bloom has devastated clubhouse morale.  It is remarkable that Devers agreed to the deal. It is apparent that few ballplayers want to play for him.  Why should they?  He clearly builds clubs held together by ace bandages. 

Is this for real? I can imagine being 32 years old and still being under team control for this season and next would suck.

Our problems are solved with another high flying pickup, Yu Chang.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang (https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang)

Quote from: longgame on February 16, 2023, 09:39:48 AM
Our problems are solved with another high flying pickup, Yu Chang.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang (https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang)

Being as objective as I can, the Chang deal could tell me two things. 1)  Mondesi is progressing in rehab and could play 2B opening day or within a week of that, or 2) Bloom is throwing another cheapo piece against the wall to convince Sox fans how a genious he is in his own mind.

I dearly trust the former  is the case  ---   for my own sanity !!

That's downright depressing. I swear it is. Stat Cast Athlete except for he can't hit for squat. effing lovely. Great athleticism is what they said last year, right? His K-Rate went up last season to 35%.  Oh, but he did steel a base once. I'm not fibbing. It says so right there in the baseball reference stat sheet. It happened in 2021.  1-1 lifetime, but pfffttttt that's just traditional old time statistics that don't matter anymore.

UFB!!!

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on February 16, 2023, 11:52:57 AM

Quote from: longgame on February 16, 2023, 09:39:48 AM
Our problems are solved with another high flying pickup, Yu Chang.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang (https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang)

Being as objective as I can, the Chang deal could tell me two things. 1)  Mondesi is progressing in rehab and could play 2B opening day or within a week of that, or 2) Bloom is throwing another cheapo piece against the wall to convince Sox fans how a genious he is in his own mind.

I dearly trust the former  is the case  ---   for my own sanity !!

Looking at Mondesi's track record, if he is ready opening day it just means he will be injured again sooner.  Mondesi is an injury waiting to happen.

Quote from: longgame on February 16, 2023, 09:39:48 AM
Our problems are solved with another high flying pickup, Yu Chang.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang (https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang)

Can you believe it Red?  Hitless wonder Yu Chang is back with us.  If anything can remind us of the dismal 2022 season Yu Chang can.  He was totally crappy for us in those 15 games.  What did he hit, 150?.  No power, no speed and it looked like he just got up from the dinner table after consuming 10,000 calories.  Way to go Bloom; another choice pickup for your ledger you worthless bum.

Quote from: elktonnick on February 16, 2023, 02:01:16 PM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on February 16, 2023, 11:52:57 AM

Quote from: longgame on February 16, 2023, 09:39:48 AM
Our problems are solved with another high flying pickup, Yu Chang.

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang (https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-red-sox-agree-to-one-year-contract-with-infielder-yu-chang)

Being as objective as I can, the Chang deal could tell me two things. 1)  Mondesi is progressing in rehab and could play 2B opening day or within a week of that, or 2) Bloom is throwing another cheapo piece against the wall to convince Sox fans how a genious he is in his own mind.

I dearly trust the former  is the case  ---   for my own sanity !!

Looking at Mondesi's track record, if he is ready opening day it just means he will be injured again sooner.  Mondesi is an injury waiting to happen.

And if he is anything like his dad you can bet he will leave tons of runners on base. His dad Raul was far and away the worst clutch hitter I ever saw. The Dodgers, Blue Jays and Yankees saw it.  He was sickening with a game on the line just as dBogaerts was late in a game and he had a shitty attitude.  On that score I hope the son brings a better one to the field that his dad did.

I'm still shaking my head over that series of moves to get Mondesi and Chang. 34% K-rates. Assuming semi-full seasons from both of them, may looking at 12-14 HR pop for their .235 BA. Some stolen bases if we wanted to risk further injury.

So what happens if an invitee has a great ST? Is that just too bad because we got Yu Chang? Why sign Chang to a roster spot? His list of suitors was strong, I bet. Probably was holding out for a sure-to-come MLB contract.

We're paying $4M for this pair, and lost a good lefty in a trade for the opportunity. One of Andrus/Iglesias would have been infinitely more reliable for $6M-$7M, and we'd still have Taylor.  In other words, Bloom made a mess for a chance at some SB's and a few more Home Runs than Iglesias would have gotten. Or was it to save $3M? Are we that tight now?

I think Bloom never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. 

Tomase gives his glass half full pronouncement.  Basically a lot has to go right!

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn (https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn)

Tomase had some other articles I stumbled upon while reading that one. One article discussed Henry was fighting back. Another article that included a video excerpt from Dan Shaunessy suggesting delusional. (Someone obviously is.)  A couple of fluff writers had email interviews with Henry. The Red Sox' MLB site is filled with the same sort of fluff.

It's as simple as this. The front office needs to shut up. The PR machine that is the Red Sox has been exposed. Every counterpoint they've made has been filled with so many holes that it only increases the negative chatter. It's so bad right now that we can't even decide whom to call Baghdad Bob. It's an insult.

And if it could not get worse, The epic fail of Chaim Bloom might be getting bigger by the day. His estimations of what other GMs may or may not do may take another hit. A MASSIVE hit. Enter Noah Song.

Quote from: longgame on February 22, 2023, 11:47:38 AM
Tomase gives his glass half full pronouncement.  Basically a lot has to go right!

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn (https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn)

This is a last place quality team-again. I would give Bloom one more year to right the ship. If we aren't in the playoffs next year the entire house should be cleaned. Meanwhile, hold your noses.

Quote from: Pumpsie Green on February 27, 2023, 12:20:16 PM

Quote from: longgame on February 22, 2023, 11:47:38 AM
Tomase gives his glass half full pronouncement.  Basically a lot has to go right!

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn (https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn)

This is a last place quality team-again. I would give Bloom one more year to right the ship. If we aren't in the playoffs next year the entire house should be cleaned. Meanwhile, hold your noses.

Good to see you back here Pumpsie and once again you are right on course.

Quote from: Pumpsie Green on February 27, 2023, 12:20:16 PM

Quote from: longgame on February 22, 2023, 11:47:38 AM
Tomase gives his glass half full pronouncement.  Basically a lot has to go right!

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn (https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn)

This is a last place quality team-again. I would give Bloom one more year to right the ship. If we aren't in the playoffs next year the entire house should be cleaned. Meanwhile, hold your noses.

I echo Fred's remarks, good to see you Pumpsie.

I'm not sure that even (another) abject failure will move this team to action.  My guess is they do just well enough in the eyes of Henry and Bloom that they end up tinkering again.

Quote from: longgame on February 28, 2023, 08:48:16 AM

Quote from: Pumpsie Green on February 27, 2023, 12:20:16 PM

Quote from: longgame on February 22, 2023, 11:47:38 AM
Tomase gives his glass half full pronouncement.  Basically a lot has to go right!

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn (https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-skeptic-explains-why-he-hopes-hes-wrong-about-everything-2023?cid=sm_npd_rsn_bos_twt_mn)

This is a last place quality team-again. I would give Bloom one more year to right the ship. If we aren't in the playoffs next year the entire house should be cleaned. Meanwhile, hold your noses.

I echo Fred's remarks, good to see you Pumpsie.

I'm not sure that even (another) abject failure will move this team to action.  My guess is they do just well enough in the eyes of Henry and Bloom that they end up tinkering again.

Part of the problem is that we are in probably the most competitive division in baseball. Even the Orioles are going to have a good season. We play within our division more than anywhere else and we all know how poorly we did against the ALE last year. Chances are we won't be a .500 team. I am looking at around 70-75 wins as a guess.

Besides the Sox, I follow the Cardinals.  I live d out there for several years.  I taaped the Cards-Mets game over the weekend.  With the prospectus on the Sox what it is.,  I'll be spending some time in the NL Central this year. It is what it is. 

I enjoy  baseball, and will find good baseball to watch like most fans.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on February 28, 2023, 12:39:51 PM
Besides the Sox, I follow the Cardinals.  I live d out there for several years.  I taaped the Cards-Mets game over the weekend.  With the prospectus on the Sox what it is.,  I'll be spending some time in the NL Central this year. It is what it is. 

I enjoy  baseball, and will find good baseball to watch like most fans.

I will be following the NL Central too this season for the most part but we will be rivals there.  The Cubs are my No. 2 team and I'm hoping to travel to Chicago to see them take on your boys this summer.  The Cardinals look very strong but my Cubs are coming back after a couple of bummer years.  Their farm system is starting to churn out some pretty good prospects and I'll have to see how they  come around before I start doing handstands.  Still my heart will always be first and foremost with  the Red Sox.  Damn John Henry and Chaim Bloom for what they have done to our favorite team.

Braves are the "local" team here and I tune into their games from time to time.  I also catch the Padres sometimes for an inning or two late at night, just to remember what a good announcer sounds like.  I've got a good buddy who's a Guardians fan so I may check in on them with that young roster and Tito at the helm. 

At end of week 1 of Spring Training the Sox starters are showing a lot of wear and tear.  Paxton was pulled from his start Friday with a grade 1 hamstring (out 3 or more weeks).  Whitlock is still recovering from hip surgery. Bello is a question mark with 'arm stiffness' Yesterday Pivetta was rocked for 3 runs in the 1st.  Fingers crossed for aging Sale and  Kluber. Right now Bloom is probably wincing that he let San Diego get 12-2 Waccha for $3.5 mil (+ options).

It's still way early as they say. The bullpen so far is the strength of the club.  But how do they get to the bullpen.

They stretched out Crawford today. 3 innings. Probably plan-H, but whatever. That curve is a plus pitch when it's working. At least it was last year when he came back from Worcester.

On Monday Sale faced the Tigers at Jet Blue.  They gave him two innings, no runs, 2 hits, 0 BB, 2 Ks.
Probably all they expected and so far, no reported dings in his body.
Justin Turner was hit in the face and showing blood. first at bat, and taken right to the hospital.

So far, Tapia has been a surprise at the plate.  A doubles machine they say, with a double and homer today.  If that holds up, he could make the roster since others have a few hamstrings in camp.

An update on Justin Turner.  A Red Sox report says he is at a local hospital.  They are treating him for 'soft tissue facial injuries'.  He is also being monitored if there could be a concussion.  Justin is "stable, alert, and in good spirits."

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on March 06, 2023, 04:19:57 PM
An update on Justin Turner.  A Red Sox report says he is at a local hospital.  They are treating him for 'soft tissue facial injuries'.  He is also being monitored if there could be a concussion.  Justin is "stable, alert, and in good spirits."

That's good news.  He is a very positive influence not only on the field but in the clubhouse and we will need him badly when the season begins.

First meeting with NYY today at Steinbrenner Stadium.  We are playing scrubs today, but dominating the Yanks mostly A team.  9-3 in the 8th with 5 homers so far.  Two by a lad named Crook.  LOL, Sox have 6 runs off Tyler Danish, that we DFAd, but the Yanks signed him to a deal.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on March 09, 2023, 02:29:21 PM
First meeting with NYY today at Steinbrenner Stadium.  We are playing scrubs today, but dominating the Yanks mostly A team.  9-3 in the 8th with 5 homers so far.  Two by a lad named Crook.  LOL, Sox have 6 runs off Tyler Danish, that we DFAd, but the Yanks signed him to a deal.

Grapefruit League game or otherwise, when the Red Sox play the Yankees I want to beat the Yankees, no two ways about it----and I think I have some of my friends on this board who would agree with that.

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on March 09, 2023, 05:55:06 PM

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on March 09, 2023, 02:29:21 PM
First meeting with NYY today at Steinbrenner Stadium.  We are playing scrubs today, but dominating the Yanks mostly A team.  9-3 in the 8th with 5 homers so far.  Two by a lad named Crook.  LOL, Sox have 6 runs off Tyler Danish, that we DFAd, but the Yanks signed him to a deal.

Grapefruit League game or otherwise, when the Red Sox play the Yankees I want to beat the Yankees, no two ways about it----and I think I have some of my friends on this board who would agree with that.

Amazed at this ST performance so far.  Again a lot of young guys picking up some big hits late in games.  Let's hope some of it carries through as the regulars don't play much. 

Sox played at Jet Blue against the Rays.  Duvall finally got his first hit of the Spring, I think he was 0 for 12 with a sac fly and a couple walks before.  He will have to get ready at bat to be some protection behind Raffy.
Yoshida got a hit for Japan yesterday.  I'm not sure he had gotten anything but a walk or two at Ft Myers.

I've got a suspicion that David Hamilton will make the roster in a bench role.  He has looked OK at SS, has some hits, and is probably the fastest player in the organization.  They might use him as a base stealer, to take advantage of shifts while at bat, and a pinch runner.

Quote from: Sea Dog 23 on March 10, 2023, 07:01:29 PM
Sox played at Jet Blue against the Rays.  Duvall finally got his first hit of the Spring, I think he was 0 for 12 with a sac fly and a couple walks before.  He will have to get ready at bat to be some protection behind Raffy.
Yoshida got a hit for Japan yesterday.  I'm not sure he had gotten anything but a walk or two at Ft Myers.

I've got a suspicion that David Hamilton will make the roster in a bench role.  He has looked OK at SS, has some hits, and is probably the fastest player in the organization.  They might use him as a base stealer, to take advantage of shifts while at bat, and a pinch runner.

Thankfully they've resisted on Hamilton. He eeked out a late season mini-surge last season in Portland to bring his average up to the new, modern-day almost respectable level of .250 in Portland. Hopefully he plays his way up here this Summer.

Speaking of SS, I see this morning that Yu Chang won the group-A MVP honors in the WBC. He will have to be something special to give him an MLB contract with the other options that were out there. 

I was watching a few minutes of the game yesterday and noticed, as I have in other ST games, that Jet Blue Park has a lot of empty seats.  I believe it's usually a tough ticket.  Will be interesting to see how many show up at Fenway, especially if they don't get a good start.

We have been coming to ST since 2014. This is the first year that one could buy tickets at the door.  Usually the entire ST schedule is sold out within minutes of tickets going on sale in January.

Hokey Dokey! One more set of moves remains. Maybe a question or two. I sense DFA's and Trades in the winds. Maybe more than one.

#1: Tapia verses Duran for the OF spot. Tapia could cost Duran more than just a Major League Roster spot. He could lose his 40-man spot because of this.
#2: Ort verses the DFA machine. A pitcher not on the 40-man spot would have Orts spot if not for them not wanting to give up on a power arm. 

Will a spot on the 40-man be made by placing Mondesi or Joely on the 60-day IL?