ALDS GAME #2, SATURDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2018, NY YANKEES AT BOSTON RED SOX

Started by longgame, October 06, 2018, 02:39:33 PM

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longgame

I keep thinking about last night's game and get more and more upset.  A lot have rightly questioned why Holt wasn't in that game.  I think he should have started at 3B.  Swihart would have been a better pinch hitter than Devers who traded bats with JBJ in midseason or something.  But Betts can't choke on every at bat either.  And the pitching actually has to get some outs, which they did for a couple of innings.  They've gone 14 innings getting outscored 11-2.  They can't hit the starters or relievers.  They chase bad pitches constantly - like last night against Tanaka where it seemed the could swing at anything off the plate, especially low, but would watch easy pitches sail right down the middle. 

The worst part is that last night's game is exactly what we expected out of the Sox in the playoffs and they delivered - dead at the plate, in the field and on the mound.

Cora needs to do something to light these guys up.  I think making the playoffs and losing in the first round three years in a row should be a sign that this team needs work.

ipot

To echo longgame above: all these problems started to come to fruition in September.  Many of us saw that:

1. Our lineup was not getting it done against top shelf opposing starters (a shocker that we got to Happ for me)
2. With Sale out our SP was tenuous at best.
3. The pen was a mess.
4. Take the O's and the Jay's out of the W/L math and look at the team we had.

Meanwhile, Morton (an FA next year, hello?) went 7 inns of 1 run ball and struck out 12 Cleveland batters yesterday on way to victory.  Verlander was pretty darn good in his own right the day before.
"Baseball is simple. All you do is sit on your butt, spit tobacco and nod at the stupid things your manager says."
--Bill 'Spaceman' Lee

SeaBeachFred

Quote from: ipot on October 07, 2018, 11:59:35 AM
To echo longgame above: all these problems started to come to fruition in September.  Many of us saw that:

1. Our lineup was not getting it done against top shelf opposing starters (a shocker that we got to Happ for me)
2. With Sale out our SP was tenuous at best.
3. The pen was a mess.
4. Take the O's and the Jay's out of the W/L math and look at the team we had.

Meanwhile, Morton (an FA next year, hello?) went 7 inns of 1 run ball and struck out 12 Cleveland batters yesterday on way to victory.  Verlander was pretty darn good in his own right the day before.

Cora stands totally convicted for insisting that Leon and Nunez stay in the lineup.  The former cannot hit worth a damn anymore and, yes, he probably saved Game 1 for us but with Mookie and Benny deciding to take a night off at the plate as others have done from time to time, we cannot afford to keep two hitters in the lineup and give the opposition seven or eight free outs.  When we face a RH as we did last night and will tomorrow night, HOLT HAS GOT TO BE IN THE LINEUP AND SO SHOULD SWIHART.  For that to not have happened Alex should get a cigarette and a blindfold.  OTOH, he cannot help was Dumbo has given him for a bullpen crew.  They might as well call  them the ARSON Squad as inept as they are, and, damn it, couldn't just one of them come to the fore and start pitching like a pitcher instead of a BP retread?   Plenty of blame to go around but Cora may finally have to read a riot act to some of the mentally lazy guys on the team and let them know that another one and done playoff appearance isn't acceptable---AND THAT SHOULD BE BLARED LOUD AND CLEAR TO JOHN HENRY who may be thinking of holding onto his wallet again this coming winter.  Sorry Prune Face, three WS appearances this century isn't enough no matter what that butt friend of yours, Lucchino says (yes, I know he is still lurking around).

longgame

What I saw was this.  They walked into Fenway ready to go.  They had three concerns - what would Sale bring, would the offense once again disappear in the postseason and will the bullpen be able to correct itself.  They came out and saw Sale looking like his normal self.  They scored early.  Everything was great.  But the entire series to date changed the moment Sale came out.  Maybe Sale would have given up 2 or 3 runs, but if he continued and gave 7 innings and 3 runs, nobody would have complained.  I think Cora panicked, pulled him and unwittingly set in motion the demoralization of the team.  The bullpen came in and said it doesn't matter how well you pitch or hit, we'll blow it.  The hopefully not mortal blow was when Price once again was an abject failure. 

I can complain about how Cora has handled the lineup - it's easy since Cora seems to be the only person that knows where New England is that didn't think to play Holt over Nunez, stick with Leon as little as possible and don't put Devers in.  Ever.  BTW, I've had enough with Leon being great for blocking the crappy pitches he calls.  If his guys are demonstrating they can't throw the ball more than about 57 feet, maybe you don't keep calling for that pitch. 

elktonnick

Quote from: longgame on October 07, 2018, 04:29:31 PM
What I saw was this.  They walked into Fenway ready to go.  They had three concerns - what would Sale bring, would the offense once again disappear in the postseason and will the bullpen be able to correct itself.  They came out and saw Sale looking like his normal self.  They scored early.  Everything was great.  But the entire series to date changed the moment Sale came out.  Maybe Sale would have given up 2 or 3 runs, but if he continued and gave 7 innings and 3 runs, nobody would have complained.  I think Cora panicked, pulled him and unwittingly set in motion the demoralization of the team.  The bullpen came in and said it doesn't matter how well you pitch or hit, we'll blow it.  The hopefully not mortal blow was when Price once again was an abject failure. 

I can complain about how Cora has handled the lineup - it's easy since Cora seems to be the only person that knows where New England is that didn't think to play Holt over Nunez, stick with Leon as little as possible and don't put Devers in.  Ever.  BTW, I've had enough with Leon being great for blocking the crappy pitches he calls.  If his guys are demonstrating they can't throw the ball more than about 57 feet, maybe you don't keep calling for that pitch.

Well said!

SeaBeachFred

Quote from: longgame on October 07, 2018, 04:29:31 PM
What I saw was this.  They walked into Fenway ready to go.  They had three concerns - what would Sale bring, would the offense once again disappear in the postseason and will the bullpen be able to correct itself.  They came out and saw Sale looking like his normal self.  They scored early.  Everything was great.  But the entire series to date changed the moment Sale came out.  Maybe Sale would have given up 2 or 3 runs, but if he continued and gave 7 innings and 3 runs, nobody would have complained.  I think Cora panicked, pulled him and unwittingly set in motion the demoralization of the team.  The bullpen came in and said it doesn't matter how well you pitch or hit, we'll blow it.  The hopefully not mortal blow was when Price once again was an abject failure. 

I can complain about how Cora has handled the lineup - it's easy since Cora seems to be the only person that knows where New England is that didn't think to play Holt over Nunez, stick with Leon as little as possible and don't put Devers in.  Ever.  BTW, I've had enough with Leon being great for blocking the crappy pitches he calls.  If his guys are demonstrating they can't throw the ball more than about 57 feet, maybe you don't keep calling for that pitch.

You know Ted, you could be very on the mark with that assertion about when Sale left how the team seemed to detach themselves from the business at hand.  Well it that is true, then yes, my depiction of our team as fragile and not made of the stern stuff needed to be a real champion just grew a couple of very sturdy legs.  A new take on Leon as well.  He did make some nice stops but, then again,  those choice of pitches were way off the mark too unless we give him a free bee because those pitcher's other pitches were meat for the taking.  Again, there is a lot of blame to go around but we can't do anything about that now.  What's needed is to come to the ballpark tomorrow not intimidated, not fragile, not with a lack of confidence but with a determination to do to the Yanks what they did to us on Saturday.  If we're made of anything more than clay and sand paper, we should return the favor.   They beat us on our field, then we beat them on theirs.  Do we have the guts and fire in our bellies to do that?  That's where I'm having some doubts.


BoSoxFanNY

Quote from: markj on October 07, 2018, 10:02:13 PM
Shaughnessy (not my favorite writer) is singing the same tune. Sox need to toughen up.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/10/07/red-sox-need-tougher-beat-yankees/F74c7RKcpWOKYHyXB24WsO/story.html

YUP!
START playing like the team that won 108 games.
AND NEVER pitch Price against the Yankees this postseason.


Bear

Where's Brock Holt?  He's been hot lately. thumb_d
So now we go to New York...not my favorit place...
especially atm.

longgame

Quote from: markj on October 07, 2018, 10:02:13 PM
Shaughnessy (not my favorite writer) is singing the same tune. Sox need to toughen up.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2018/10/07/red-sox-need-tougher-beat-yankees/F74c7RKcpWOKYHyXB24WsO/story.html

He is right on although I'm not as high on Devers as he is.  Just so plain to all who are watching.  They have every chance to go in there tonight and take it to the Yankees and then troll them by dancing on their field tomorrow night.  I'm hoping these guys look determined, not scared, tonight. 

longgame

Quote from: markj on October 07, 2018, 10:34:29 PM
Um...what?

https://www.mlb.com/news/david-price-to-be-used-as-alds-reliever/c-297320346

I can see sending him to the bullpen, just don't put him in any postseason games ever.  After 10 losing starts with 4 teams, you don't need to be a statistician to see the trend.

SeaBeachFred

As for the once hot Brock Holt who tore up the league in September I hope he hasn't gotten cold and stale rotting on the bench the past two games.  No damn excuse from Alex Cora is acceptable for that.  He knew the guy was hot, he knew Nunez has been only a shell of what he was last season with the bat.  Holt should be at third and keep Kinsler on second.  At least the Ian has  gotten a hit in each of the last two games even though his strikeouts are becoming a pain the ass as he keeps swinging for the downs and that is not the type of hitter he is supposed to be.  Of course having the hit ting challenged Christian Vazquez catching tonight doesn't give us any more offense than  they got from Leon but for some reason Cora does not have confidence in Blake Swihart---that is, until he is traded this winter and becomes an All Star while Alex and Dumbo make all kinds of excuses as to why they were so blind and stupid regarding the potential help Blake could have added to the Red Sox.

At any rate, tonight Betts and Benintendi must not take another night off nd start ripping again, and it would be good to see the bottom of the lineup start makin a contribution or two as well, but the key is Nathan Evovaldi.  He has pitched well against the Yankees since we got him and we need just the opposite from him than what we got from Price on Saturday.  There, I've said my piece.

Bill-806

Quote from: SeaBeachFred on October 08, 2018, 02:51:26 PM
As for the once hot Brock Holt who tore up the league in September I hope he hasn't gotten cold and stale rotting on the bench the past two games.  No damn excuse from Alex Cora is acceptable for that.  He knew the guy was hot, he knew Nunez has been only a shell of what he was last season with the bat.  Holt should be at third and keep Kinsler on second.  At least the Ian has  gotten a hit in each of the last two games even though his strikeouts are becoming a pain the ass as he keeps swinging for the downs and that is not the type of hitter he is supposed to be.  Of course having the hit ting challenged Christian Vazquez catching tonight doesn't give us any more offense than  they got from Leon but for some reason Cora does not have confidence in Blake Swihart---that is, until he is traded this winter and becomes an All Star while Alex and Dumbo make all kinds of excuses as to why they were so blind and stupid regarding the potential help Blake could have added to the Red Sox.

At any rate, tonight Betts and Benintendi must not take another night off nd start ripping again, and it would be good to see the bottom of the lineup start makin a contribution or two as well, but the key is Nathan Evovaldi.  He has pitched well against the Yankees since we got him and we need just the opposite from him than what we got from Price on Saturday.  There, I've said my piece.
Game 3 lineup has HOLT @ 2nd, DEVERS @ 3rd, & PEARCE @ 1st...…..  Should be more offense at the expense of the LEATHER !!! iono iono iono iono iono