A'S V RED SOX
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 12, 2017, 7 PM AT FENWAY PARK
TV: NESN, NBCSCA
OAKLAND, (63-80)....................................................................................BOSTON, (81-61)
OAKLAND:
SEAN MANAEA, LHP, 10-9, 4.33 ERA, 126 K
Manaea tossed six shutout innings against the Angels on Wednesday, picking
up the win after holding them to five hits while walking three and fanning six O's.
He's completed at least six innings in three of his last four starts.
BOSTON:
EDUARDO RODRIGUEZ, LHP, 5-4, 4.33 ERA, 126K
The lefty had his best start in weeks last time out, allowing six hits and two
runs in six innings with eight K's in a no-decision vs Toronto. Rodriguez is after his
first win since may 26. In two career starts vs the A's, he's 1-0 with a 1.69 ERA.
Manaea, A's head to Fenway to face E-Rod
Ian Browne
Following their second off-day in five days, the American League East-leading Red Sox should be well-rested when they take the field at Fenway Park on Tuesday night to open a three-game series against the Athletics.
Though the A's are in last place in the AL West, the Red Sox know better than to take them lightly after losing three out of four when the clubs met last from May 18-21.
Left-hander Eduardo Rodriguez, who had a no-hitter against the A's for 7 2/3 innings last September, gets the ball for Boston in the opener. Oakland counters with lefty Sean Manaea.
This series gives Fenway fans a chance to watch Khris Davis, who entered Sunday tied with Aaron Judge for the AL lead in home runs with 39.
THREE THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS GAME
• The Red Sox hope to have invaluable infielder Eduardo Nunez back in the lineup on Tuesday after he missed Friday's game with back spasms and Sunday's contest with a right knee contusion. Nunez is slashing .319/.351/.534 since making his debut for Boston on July 28.
• Davis has been tough on the Red Sox in his career, hitting .358 with three homers and nine RBIs. He is 13-for-28 at Fenway with a homer and five RBIs.
• Red Sox outfielder Rajai Davis will get a chance to reunite with his former teammates after being traded from Oakland to Boston on Aug. 23. Davis was a respected player in the clubhouse during his short stint with the Athletics.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/20170910253544022/manaea-as-head-to-fenway-to-face-e-rod/?game_pk=492265
Tonight vs. Oakland.
Pedroia 2B,
Young LF,
Betts RF,
Ramirez DH,
Travis 1B,
Bogaerts SS,
Devers 3B,
Vazquez C,
Bradley Jr CF,
Rodriguez LHP
Another one that the SOX need in the W column thumb_u rofl !!!
Quote from: Bill-806 on September 11, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Another one that the SOX need in the W column thumb_u rofl !!!
We're facing another lefty....KEEP CHRISSE YOUNG ON THE EFEN BENCH AND DO NOT START BOGAERTS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES OR WE WILL LOSE ANOTHER GAME OF OUR LEAD. This is no sure thing because they are the A's. These will be tough games because of garbage like Pukegaerts, Ramirez and the miserably disappointing Betts.
NYY win in the 4th. 5-1. Lead down to 3 GB.
It's been 3 games in the loss column anyway. Now they're even as far as games played.
Quote from: markj on September 11, 2017, 09:07:52 PM
It's been 3 games in the loss column anyway. Now they're even as far as games played.
We've won two straight series 2-1 and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that is good, very good, but there may come a time when a hat trick by us might be needed, and we cannot always look for someone to beat the Yankees for us; we have to take care of business ourselves. We have to stay healthy markj and put the best men on the field and that means Pedroia and Nunez must be in the lineup from here on in. Every game we play counts. It's going to be either us or the Yankees for the AL East Title and I want it to be us.
With E-ROD going for his 1st win since MAY 26, I certainly do not get all warm & fuzzy thumb_d iono slap rofl.....
Quote from: Bear on September 11, 2017, 08:33:36 AM
Tonight vs. Oakland.
Pedroia 2B,
Young LF,
Betts RF,
Ramirez DH,
Travis 1B,
Bogaerts SS,
Devers 3B,
Vazquez C,
Bradley Jr CF,
Rodriguez LHP
Young again in the lineup vs a left hander?????? Christie Young has been a wimp all season against southpaws, hitting under 200 against them and he hasn't had a hit in over a month. Why the hell does Farrell still insist on starting him----and batting second to boot. Now he has not only kept Pukegaerts in the lineup but is hitting him sixth, an RBI position. Just when you want to show some optimism and hope for the best this horseshit manager has to spoil things by making out a lineup that guarantees a struggle against a team we ought to be favored against since we're playing them at home. Two shits in the lineup could sink us tonight.....I hope not.
yeah, why is Young in left field AND batting 2nd? Because his career splits against LHP are good? Certainly not this year. He's looked awful at the plate. Stick with Benintendi.
E-Rod starting out bad again. Throwing a lot of pitches and giving up runs already.
Down a run already. Walks will usually come back to bite you in the ass. sigh
Nunez out until at least next Tuesday because of his knee when he'll be re-evaluated.
Nice GIDP, Betts. sigh
Betts hitting basically .200 with runners in scoring position since August 3rd.
Things are looking up here.
About time Betts!
Hard to believe the Sox could be stuck with Hanley for 2 more years depending on if his option for 2019 vests by getting enough plate appearances combined in 2017 & 2018. Needs 1050 plate appearances.
Any inning where you put up 5 runs is a good inning.
Hanley is useless. Hope he's gone next year.
Quote from: markj on September 12, 2017, 07:16:34 PM
Any inning where you put up 5 runs is a good inning.
Hanley is useless. Hope he's gone next year.
Good thing about Hanley is he can only block a trade to 3 teams I believe. Sox will need to eat a ton of money to move him and that vesting option could be a hang up.
Maybe Betts is coming out of his slump?
Quote from: Schloicka on September 12, 2017, 07:43:35 PM
Maybe Betts is coming out of his slump?
XB on for the second time tonight, albeit through luck.
Vaz has a very hot bat lately.
Quote from: markj on September 12, 2017, 08:03:11 PM
Quote from: Schloicka on September 12, 2017, 07:43:35 PM
Maybe Betts is coming out of his slump?
XB on for the second time tonight, albeit through luck.
What was lucky about his last hit? Was an infield single and got to 2nd on the error. I'll take all the infield hits they get. Xman is 3-3 with an RBI & scored 2 runs.
Good game by E-Rod. Got through 6 innings. On to the Pen.
Betts out of his slump at least for tonight. Hopefully something to build on.
It was lucky because of the error. Otherwise he'd have been out.
Betts goes deep. Maybe he is breaking out of the slump.
Hanley is still useless.
Quote from: markj on September 12, 2017, 08:24:38 PM
It was lucky because of the error. Otherwise he'd have been out.
Betts goes deep. Maybe he is breaking out of the slump.
The error was him going to 2nd. He got on 1st by a hit. That's why he's 3-3 tonight so far.
Whatever. If the throw had been clean, he would have been out. The catcher blew that play.
Quote from: markj on September 12, 2017, 08:31:11 PM
Whatever. If the throw had been clean, he would have been out. The catcher blew that play.
He had the throw beat. If he hadn't it would of been an error.
Fred's boys are tearing it up tonight. Still have no idea why Young was in the lineup (yes, I know he was 4-4 against the guy). Ramirez looks like he's done. I don't get it, he doesn't even appear to be trying, just go up there, swing at each pitch and maybe make contact, usually a pop up.
Quote from: longgame on September 12, 2017, 08:37:33 PM
Fred's boys are tearing it up tonight. Still have no idea why Young was in the lineup (yes, I know he was 4-4 against the guy). Ramirez looks like he's done. I don't get it, he doesn't even appear to be trying, just go up there, swing at each pitch and maybe make contact, usually a pop up.
Well young got 2 hits tonight so guess the stats paid off some what. Hanley needs to be gone but Sox will need to eat a lot of money because of the vesting option for 2019 if he gets enough at bats beyween this year and next. I'd just release him and eat next years salary.
yankees lose 2-1
Devers has a reaction time like me when food is going to fall off the table.
Smith not sharp but is to be expected at times as he works his way back. Maddox coming in with bases loaded & 2 outs. Trading outs for runs if need be.
Nice job Maddox.
Sox will pick up a game here. Thank you, Rays.
Easy game. On to Wednesday.
Quote from: longgame on September 12, 2017, 08:37:33 PM
Fred's boys are tearing it up tonight. Still have no idea why Young was in the lineup (yes, I know he was 4-4 against the guy). Ramirez looks like he's done. I don't get it, he doesn't even appear to be trying, just go up there, swing at each pitch and maybe make contact, usually a pop up.
Well two of my "boys" were on the stick tonight and two out of three ain't bad, just like our two past series. Ramirez though looks like he is done because he looks like he can't even hit any more. Sad because I really got to like him last year. Anyway, who can knock tonight. We won and our rivals lost---back to four up. Nice if we could keep this kind of lead on them for the rest of the season, or maybe five up. But I won't be greedy.
Quote from: Schloicka on September 12, 2017, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: longgame on September 12, 2017, 08:37:33 PM
Fred's boys are tearing it up tonight. Still have no idea why Young was in the lineup (yes, I know he was 4-4 against the guy). Ramirez looks like he's done. I don't get it, he doesn't even appear to be trying, just go up there, swing at each pitch and maybe make contact, usually a pop up.
Well young got 2 hits tonight so guess the stats paid off some what. Hanley needs to be gone but Sox will need to eat a lot of money because of the vesting option for 2019 if he gets enough at bats beyween this year and next. I'd just release him and eat next years salary.
Well we do agree with each other on occasion. Yes, Hanley must be gone. As a DH his hitting this season has been totally sub par and we cannot have such a poor hitter taking up playing time for a guy like Travis or the DH power hitter we need to get for next season.
How much fun it is to enjoy blowouts like this lately. They haven't been coming around too much this season. 15 hits w/11 runs is nice. It's the A's so I won't get too excited about "E-Rod back in form" just yet. He's gotta keep the BBs down. A better offense would make him pay. But we got it done.
I've been bitching and moaning all year long about the sox players being way too eager and undisciplined at the plate with their swings. Vaz and Peddy might be the best on the team staying on the pitch and staying with the pitch from start to finish, excluding injury.
Last night was refreshing to watch. Betts stayed on the ball very well for that opposite field shot. XB showed that good things can happen going the other way. Travis got an 'excuse me' opposite field dble inside on the fists. JBJ kept his head down on the ball. Devers scorched one to 3b with a hard grounder before that for outs. His hit was laced up the middle.
Point is, is that this is where the So need to live. Especially Betts. If he stays back and takes some opposite field shots, he's in better position to hit the ball when thrown inside. It's as simple as that, aside from the mechanics of getting there.
One hitter left to go, unless they revel in last night's success and go King Kong on us again. If it is coming together, then perfect timing call is in order. However, it does lead me to one big question. Should it take a two-man hitting coached team this long to right the ship?
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on September 13, 2017, 06:19:15 AM
I've been bitching and moaning all year long about the sox players being way too eager and undisciplined at the plate with their swings. Vaz and Peddy might be the best on the team staying on the pitch and staying with the pitch from start to finish, excluding injury.
Last night was refreshing to watch. Betts stayed on the ball very well for that opposite field shot. XB showed that good things can happen going the other way. Travis got an 'excuse me' opposite field dble inside on the fists. JBJ kept his head down on the ball. Devers scorched one to 3b with a hard grounder before that for outs. His hit was laced up the middle.
Point is, is that this is where the So need to live. Especially Betts. If he stays back and takes some opposite field shots, he's in better position to hit the ball when thrown inside. It's as simple as that, aside from the mechanics of getting there.
One hitter left to go, unless they revel in last night's success and go King Kong on us again. If it is coming together, then perfect timing call is in order. However, it does lead me to one big question. Should it take a two-man hitting coached team this long to right the ship?
Red Sox have the third lowest K% in the league. The BB% is sixth.
VICTORY !!! To quote Jimmy DoLittle, "VICTORY GOES TO THOSE WHO WANT IT THE MOST, WANT IT THE LONGEST" !!!! thumb_u rofl
Quote from: ojdidit on September 13, 2017, 06:24:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on September 13, 2017, 06:19:15 AM
I've been bitching and moaning all year long about the sox players being way too eager and undisciplined at the plate with their swings. Vaz and Peddy might be the best on the team staying on the pitch and staying with the pitch from start to finish, excluding injury.
Last night was refreshing to watch. Betts stayed on the ball very well for that opposite field shot. XB showed that good things can happen going the other way. Travis got an 'excuse me' opposite field dble inside on the fists. JBJ kept his head down on the ball. Devers scorched one to 3b with a hard grounder before that for outs. His hit was laced up the middle.
Point is, is that this is where the So need to live. Especially Betts. If he stays back and takes some opposite field shots, he's in better position to hit the ball when thrown inside. It's as simple as that, aside from the mechanics of getting there.
One hitter left to go, unless they revel in last night's success and go King Kong on us again. If it is coming together, then perfect timing call is in order. However, it does lead me to one big question. Should it take a two-man hitting coached team this long to right the ship?
Red Sox have the third lowest K% in the league. The BB% is sixth.
meaning........
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on September 13, 2017, 07:00:04 AM
Quote from: ojdidit on September 13, 2017, 06:24:34 AM
Quote from: MongoLikeSox on September 13, 2017, 06:19:15 AM
I've been bitching and moaning all year long about the sox players being way too eager and undisciplined at the plate with their swings. Vaz and Peddy might be the best on the team staying on the pitch and staying with the pitch from start to finish, excluding injury.
Last night was refreshing to watch. Betts stayed on the ball very well for that opposite field shot. XB showed that good things can happen going the other way. Travis got an 'excuse me' opposite field dble inside on the fists. JBJ kept his head down on the ball. Devers scorched one to 3b with a hard grounder before that for outs. His hit was laced up the middle.
Point is, is that this is where the So need to live. Especially Betts. If he stays back and takes some opposite field shots, he's in better position to hit the ball when thrown inside. It's as simple as that, aside from the mechanics of getting there.
One hitter left to go, unless they revel in last night's success and go King Kong on us again. If it is coming together, then perfect timing call is in order. However, it does lead me to one big question. Should it take a two-man hitting coached team this long to right the ship?
Red Sox have the third lowest K% in the league. The BB% is sixth.
meaning........
I think it is obvious. This is a good disciplined team with the bat. A great one? No. I looked at all the contact figures and nothing jumps out as out of the ordinary. A complaint has also been a reluctance to swing that I have seen on this board. Taking strikes right down broadway. Not true. Nothing unusual. I did the same thing with an article a few weeks ago on popups. I thought (as I think we all did) that the Red Sox hit into a pile of them. They do not. Same with DP's. I think it is all an issue with perspective. I watch a game and my reaction is "Why do they always seem to do this?" Then I check and find out there is nothing out of the ordinary. Breaking down certain stats individually you can see changes from last season. Some of the changes are positive and some negative. Some vary greatly season to season such as Chris Young suddenly being baffled by lefties as just one example. Another is Betts. Why doesn't he walk more? Why not be patient? He is! His BB/9 is 10.9% and in 2016 it was 6.7%. From my perception without looking at the stats I would have assumed the opposite. Another one is Bogaerts - why does he suck with men on base? I know he does and so do you and everyone in RSN. Bogaerts hits .258 RISP, .268 with men on and .263 with no one on. He doesn't suck. He is amazingly consistent. The "good" one is Betts with a .339 RISP with two outs. We (or most of us) think Betts is having an "off-year." Betts is a great clutch hitter and run producer.
Again - I am not being argumentive, but just showing how flawed our perceptions can be. I constantly fall into that trap and in most instances a quick trip to one of the stats sites show otherwise more times than I feel comfortable with.
The only pop-up issue I had was just Mookie, and that was only because he rarely did it. It was shicking to see when he first started hitting them.
XB's RISP average is middle of road. min 25 plate appearances w/RISP, he was something like 91st out of 230-ish. It's, in itself, a bad number only because he is supposed to be a middle line-up hitter this year. (team construction being what it is.) Now go beyond the stats early in the season when he was hitting well and remember why he was hitting well. He had at least one nagging ailment limiting him to a whole bunch of slap hitting all over the ball park. Just like last night, he stayed on the ball. He let it come to him. It's when he feels the need to be a power hitter that he starts getting out in front of the ball.
Getting out in front of the ball and getting some BBs are two different forms of plate discipline. One is managing your AB and the other is taking what is given to you when swinging. When XB and others have it in their mind to hit a dinger, they gear up for a pitch they can turn on. Inside pitch of some sort most often, and anything starting in that area looks like a grape-fruit for a brief moment. That moment ends about 1/3 way through the swing until they are feebly sweeping at some breaking pitch on or outside the zone. Now, reverse that. Say XB is staying back and not trying to cream everything. Pitch recognition goes up Patience is up. His front half is not sold out to pulling a pitch yet and he can still barrel up the ball for something up the middle or to the opposite field.
That is swing discipline. There is more to it than BB's and pitch counts. Betts was failing this for two months. Hanley is doing it now. JBJ does it big time when slumping. Pedey used to when he was younger, but he's much better at it now. It's why his slumps lasts days and not weeks. It's the big adjustment Vaz made just before getting sent down last year. Glad he kept it up for this year. AB's swing got better when he started spraying the ball all over the place. That's why everyone loves Devers. It's partially why he slumped. Moreland's footwork gets better when he just tried to keep the middle of the field in play. It's up and down the lineup.
Even our celebrated Field Manager talks about the hitters getting out in front. What does he do about it? Who knows?
We are also very fortunate that these guys can beat out double plays. Oh, and being out in front and pop-ups do not go hand in hand. Opposite, in fact. Except for maybe Betts. His confuse me. The real irony with this is that once they stop lunging out at those outside pitches due to swinging too early, the pitchers are forced to come back over the plate and home runs become reactionary swings to a pitch they were not getting until showing discipline.
Not perceptions. It's watching.
Hitting is dictated by pitching. Getting out in front (or behind) can certainly be the result of excellent pitching. BB% and K% are incorporated into contact (and non contact) figures certainly give you an indicator of plate discipline. That is why they are used so extensively and that is why they use that title. Same with spray charts and they show little change in Bogaerts the last two seasons. A player may never walk or strike out and you have a clear indicator of how they hit based on everything from pitch type, speed, break and so on. The very root of shifts.
The mechanics you detailed are all part of the big picture.
One aspect that cannot be dismissed is shifts. Shifts have been around just about forever. Use to be simple â€" curve/fastball/change and signals are passed around and a few steps are taken. That is still the bulk of shifts, but the refinement is downright obscene. The average number of pages a manager receives before a game is about 60 just loaded with all the metrics. The Red Sox do this high-end. Batters are getting the blowback. I have seen numerous articles on this in Prospectus and Fangraphs â€" makes me dizzy and my eyes gloss over. Another outcome is pitching itself. The other night I watched someone come into a game. Just a kid call up with no great arm or up in lights talent. This SOB went 3-0 and then tossed two changeups! WTF! Then he tossed a curve. Good luck on guessing.